Just ordered the tobii eyex

[Kizbot]

I tried this the other day, mate of mine who works in Games industry brought one over to try in Elite as he doesn't play it despite having it in his steam collection. (Don't get me started on that!)

I already have a Oculus DK2 which is how I would normally play. If i was to rate out of 10 the 3 modes of extra immersion that I have tried it would be like this:
1 monitor with eyeX ££, 2/10
3 monitor setup ££££, 4/10
VR setup £££££, 9/10

I honestly wasn't overly impressed and preferred the experience I have had around another mates house with his 3 monitor setup. You quickly get used to using a button to activate the left and right panels when you need them. The peripheral vision offered by the 3 monitors is good for immersion. From using the eyeX, the auto scrolling about was actually quite disorientating and trying to look at the bulletin board or side panels was kinda annoying. While engaged in a fight, following the ship as he moved to the upper far extent of the cockpit window view just meant I was temporarily blind to important info like temp, shields and radar.

It was probably better than just having 1 monitor on its own, but I did rate 3 monitors as more useful and immersing.
After having used VR as well, it didn't hold up well against this. VR costs considerably more but it's still the top way to play this game!
I would give VR 10/10 but really it is very early days for it in terms of resolution and on occasions some of the text in the game is a little small requiring you to lean in to the left and right panels to read it properly. Could be easily resolved by FD using a slightly larger font in places.

I'm not convinced that Elite is the best example of what the eyeX can do for you.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

I just filed this bug report at the Tobii developer forum:

I have a crash problem with this new version. The behaviour is like this:
– I restart the computer. According to the given settings, the IDE starts automatically.
– I start up Elite Dangerous. No problem yet while the launcher is open, as soon as i start the game i get this message: “Der Objektverweise wurde nicht auf eine Objektinstanz festgelegt.” (German operating system. )
– With this message, the IDE stops working.
– When restarting the IDE by the desktop symbol, it then works properly.


Now i am curious, do other people here have a similar problem? If yes it's systematic, if not i wonder what the reason could be.

Might be related to how the infinity screen extension auto-loads during Windows boot. I noticed that when I close the game after the screen extension crash then restart the screen extension then the game, it works.

 

[Sylow]

Might be related to how the infinity screen extension auto-loads during Windows boot. I noticed that when I close the game after the screen extension crash then restart the screen extension then the game, it works.

If you'd have read my follow up postings, you'd have noticed that i provided more information and analysis on the topic already. There also already was one patch from Tobii trying to fix the problem, but it did not help the situation at all. Since then, there's silence. I wonder what's going on, fast bugfixes doesn't seem to be on their agenda.

To be fair, the device still can be used. It's only that i have to start the IDE after the computer is done starting up.

 

[iiBot]

I just filed this bug report at the Tobii developer forum:

I have a crash problem with this new version. The behaviour is like this:
– I restart the computer. According to the given settings, the IDE starts automatically.
– I start up Elite Dangerous. No problem yet while the launcher is open, as soon as i start the game i get this message: “Der Objektverweise wurde nicht auf eine Objektinstanz festgelegt.” (German operating system. )
– With this message, the IDE stops working.
– When restarting the IDE by the desktop symbol, it then works properly.


Now i am curious, do other people here have a similar problem? If yes it's systematic, if not i wonder what the reason could be.

Problem still persists
Same error going 'Object reference not set to an instance of an object'

Updated ISE, it is set to autostart with windows. Shut down and powered the computer again, ran Elite and got the error.

New hotfix (1.2.2) which should fix this problem (for real this time!).

(FYI: It was due to a race condition with the EyeX engine at startup.)

 

[iiBot]

I wonder what's going on, fast bugfixes doesn't seem to be on their agenda.

To be fair, the device still can be used. It's only that i have to start the IDE after the computer is done starting up.

We always try to fix critical bugs as soon as possible but that does not mean that it's always possible to fix them quickly.

 

[iiBot]

Starting to lose faith in this...

Haven't used it since the original install, now it just fails to work upon starting the PC.

I've uninstalled the software for it to try and re-set things. After installing the software I'm prompted to calibrate the tracker, however all it then does is display a black box and display a few line of text: -

• These are your eyes...
• See how much you can move around.

Then nothing is displayed.

Have tried unplugging the hardware etc, but still I'm unable to calibrate. Nothing has changed with regards to my PC hardware or software wise since the other day.

Has anyone else experienced this, and if so how or what did you do to fix it?

Running Windows 7 64 Bit

Thanks & Regards

Have you contacted the Tobii support?

 

[iiBot]

Thanks for the replies.

It did feel like eye strain, even after the short period I tried it. I'm hoping this can be reduced by adjusting the setup and getting used to the way it responds.

I did think the sensor was too high for me. I have my monitor raised which I think has resulted in the bar not being low enough. Does the bar need to be exactly below the display, or can it still work slightly lower?

From other reading on the internet it seems others are switching it off and only using it for certain activities within the game, which I'll also try.

Ive been using this for a almost month.
still tiring my eyes as they are bombarded with infrared lights!

Thats what I'm curious about as well, whats the long term effects on the eyes.
I'll hold off until some people have been using it for a few years, ...

There are no health concerns regarding the NIR-illuminators of the EyeX (more info can be found here).

Any eye strain you might be experiencing while using ISE is due to the "new way of using your eyes" which might take some getting used to.

 

[Sylow]

New hotfix (1.2.2) which should fix this problem (for real this time!).

(FYI: It was due to a race condition with the EyeX engine at startup.)

So it was a runtime issue. And, updated. Will give feedback in a few days, too busy till the weekend for actually testing anything.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

So it was a runtime issue. And, updated. Will give feedback in a few days, too busy till the weekend for actually testing anything.

Works here

 

[Sylow]

Works here

Aye. Cure confirmed, looking better now.

 

[DAOWAce]

b) it leaves the view looking where I last looked. I have to look the other direction for it to move the view back. This is pretty awful. I'm going to take a guess and say that E has an option to change this? ie; change that headlook setting from "accumulate" to the other option? Did not actually try changing it before I ended my testing.

Unfortunately, this setting didn't seem to change anything. It still keeps the view where it was and requires me to look the other direction to move it back instead of just centering my view when my eyes re-center.

With normal controls, the option causes the view to re-center if I stop holding the button down. It seems the EyeX overrides this function.

This is a pretty major usability issue for me, and I don't think I can actually play E with it, which means I've effectively wasted my money on the device since I don't own or plan to play any of the other games with it. (just a gimmick in The Division and fights with my actual control)

Couple that with the fact it's not meant for displays wider than 27", and I have a 29" ultrawide (far wider than a standard 16:9 29"), and it's just a mess. 75% to the side of my screen and it's 100% on the edge of a 16:9 monitor, so it thinks I'm looking full on to the side and as such, the view moves at maximum sensitivity. This compounds the non-centering issue to the point of near unusability. Any setting in ISE that tries to workaround this just adversely affects the center of the screen.

Unless someone knows how to get the view to re-center automatically when my eyes re-center, then I'm just packing the EyeX up. I do like being able to look up and see my enemy so I'm not flying blind, but it's just not worth the hassle 95% the rest of the time.

There are no health concerns regarding the NIR-illuminators of the EyeX (more info can be found here).

Any eye strain you might be experiencing while using ISE is due to the "new way of using your eyes" which might take some getting used to.

I feel an adverse effect on my eyes just having the device running when sitting on the Windows desktop.

It IS affecting our eyes. Whether it's harmful or not to our eye health is a different question entirely.

 

[Fendalton]

I don't use mine anymore, It's not good for combat.

Glance at the minimap or pips and the whole screen moves to focus on that, you then need to look at the top left of the screen to drag the camera back up so it centers.

The results are more eye movements straining them. I did bind a key to unlock it for when ships are behind me and relock when they're in centre, but the Tobii EyeX application itself was constantly checking my other application files so I'm a bit sus about it.

 

[DrBo42]

Absolutely regret getting one. Based on just how close you need to be to the monitor and the crazy eye strain it causes. Never found a series of settings that felt right. Constantly felt like I was dragging my view across the screen like the eye equivalent of moving your mouse, lifting your hand to move back to position then dragging again.

 

[Fendalton]

Absolutely regret getting one. Based on just how close you need to be to the monitor and the crazy eye strain it causes. Never found a series of settings that felt right. Constantly felt like I was dragging my view across the screen like the eye equivalent of moving your mouse, lifting your hand to move back to position then dragging again.

Exactly this, looking back into the middle of the screen doesn't centre it, which it really should do. Binding a key to lock the camera centre (enable/disable the mode) does help, but I should give mine another try.

 

[Zen17h]

Exactly this, looking back into the middle of the screen doesn't centre it, which it really should do. Binding a key to lock the camera centre (enable/disable the mode) does help, but I should give mine another try.

If it re-centers when you look at the middle of the screen, it would mean that you literally can't look anywhere else, as the camera would move to whatever else you were looking at to put that in the middle of the screen, then if you are still looking at it, the view would immediately reset

 

[DAOWAce]

If it re-centers when you look at the middle of the screen, it would mean that you literally can't look anywhere else, as the camera would move to whatever else you were looking at to put that in the middle of the screen

How it currently works: Look to the side, the view moves that direction at a set speed. If if had no bounds, the camera would be spinning around endlessly.

How it should work: Use the center of the monitor as a focal point, moving the camera a certain amount until it reaches the bound, resetting to center when you looked center. Aka, a bungee cord. We could look a set amount without it moving, then start to move as we got nearer the edges, with a hysteresis setting that prevents it from bouncing back and forth. All configurable, of course.

Basically, how our eyes work in comparison to our head.

That's how the device should be working in Elite Dangerous.. and it doesn't.

It makes no human sense with how we normally function. Possibly the reason why some people are getting eye strain using it.

E itself has this built in for standard controls. Accumulate is the first one, Direct is the second one. The device should change its function based on whatever this is set to.. and it doesn't. Until it does (or ISE is changed to function as I described), I can't use it.

Edit: And now that I think about it, using the head tracking solution is actually better, because our eyes can look at everything on screen without the view moving, and if we want it to look around, we can just tilt our head a bit.

Too bad it's as costly as this device, unless you use the "free" webcam solution which doesn't work in the dark and is less refined.

 

[iiBot]

How it should work: Use the center of the monitor as a focal point, moving the camera a certain amount until it reaches the bound, resetting to center when you looked center. Aka, a bungee cord. We could look a set amount without it moving, then start to move as we got nearer the edges, with a hysteresis setting that prevents it from bouncing back and forth. All configurable, of course.

I'm afraid that there are a bunch of nasty issues with an implementation like the one that you describe. It might seem that an "autocenter zone" (as we call it) at the center of the screen would work well but unless the maximum camera rotation it's severely limited (and thus not very well suited for E) then it's actually quite horrendous. "Center of screen" is also a very poor "visual anchor" without a cross hair. A better way is to have a "assisted centering zone" whenever you look towards your heading (e.g. your cross hair). This is however quite difficult to do with E since the EyeX is not in any way supported by the game (we have no way of reading any state from the game such as heading or any form of controller settings for that matter).

The closest you would get with ISE right now is the way ISE works in the Arma-games where a gaze point on the screen more or less directly translates to a camera rotation. This works very well for a maximum rotation angle equal to your FOV but after that it becomes less ideal for various reasons. We felt that it was important to be able to freely look around in a game such as E so we went with the current implementation but we've been thinking about adding an option so that you can choose between these two different camera behaviors.

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...the Tobii EyeX application itself was constantly checking my other application files so I'm a bit sus about it.

Checking your application files??

 

[Magic Man]

I'm putting mine up for sale if anyone in interested. Works absolutely great, just not for me.

Almost new, intact in original box etc. £90? (UK only) PM me.

 

[VR Murgle]

I'm putting mine up for sale if anyone in interested. Works absolutely great, just not for me.

Almost new, intact in original box etc. £90? (UK only) PM me.

Thanks I allready have one I'm not using.

Would have worked great if I could get it to work as a face tracker but the eye tracking just doesn't work for me...

 

[DAOWAce]

I'm afraid that there are a bunch of nasty issues with an implementation like the one that you describe. It might seem that an "autocenter zone" (as we call it) at the center of the screen would work well but unless the maximum camera rotation is severely limited (and thus not very well suited for E) then it's actually quite horrendous.
...
The closest you would get with ISE right now is the way ISE works in the Arma-games where a gaze point on the screen more or less directly translates to a camera rotation. ... but we've been thinking about adding an option so that you can choose between these two different camera behaviors.?

More options are better, I always say.

It might actually be a terrible like you mention, but I wouldn't know unless I try it. Would really like to see it implemented as an option.


Aside from that, I gave the device another test; this time changing my headlook bind on my HOTAS to toggle the tracking instead of using a keyboard key. It made activating it much faster and easier. I also only attempted to use it in combat or when wanting to look around, instead of having it active all the time. And, I finally tried the well received version 1.0.2.

First off: 1.0.2 feels a lot better. I don't know why, but it just does. Noticeably better than 1.2.2 too.

Unfortunately, 1.0.2 refused to work unless I was in headlook mode. I found no way to get it to function like in 1.1+. This effectively made it useless as I could no longer control various things while looking around. It also conflicted with my joystick and was a PITA to get working.

Re-upgraded to 1.2.2. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to feel like it did in 1.0.2. I also couldn't get it to be comfortable, nor even functional, to use. It just does not work well on a 21:9 monitor. No matter how high I set my falloff or gradient, it shoots up to maximum sensitivity when I look 75% of the way to the sides of my screen, as if the profile is set to be limited to a 16:9 aspect ratio. This is further reinforced by the fact that up/down functions normally and requires me to look right on the edge with those high settings to really get it to move faster.

There is no option to adjust this in the config file. I remember reading something on the developer website about changing the device's FoV constraint so it would work on different monitor sizes.. but that's in the developer SDK, not ISE. In order for the device to work properly on my 29" ultrawide, I need an option like this exposed. Maybe if I adjusted the size of the device in setup calibration? Would that change its software FoV?

So, currently, it just doesn't really function well at all if being used as a headlook device.. nor even function as a mouse if I look to the top corners of my monitor (spazzes out unless I close my farthest eye).

Maybe Revision 2 of the device will be a proper solution (extendable side sensors?), but as of this time I just can't see myself really ever using it in games unless it's an auxiliary function like in The Division (which I need to test again.. after I get a 1080).

I do hope it comes out soon, because after I upgrade my GPU I'm jumping up to a curved 34" 3440x1440 monitor. This will effectively kill all usability of the device if my experience on my 29" (PB298Q) is anything to go by.


PS: Bug report: Having ISE open and unplugging my joystick causes it to softlock Windows (7). This happened twice.