I think its time to abandon the notion that ED is some sort of hard science game. The procedural galaxy may have certain "realistic" properties, though I somehow doubt the real galaxy is quite so dull and samey but the rest of the game essentially ignores any notion of believable science and that is honestly probably a good thing given the games nature.
Why no 3rd person?
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I think its time to abandon the notion that ED is some sort of hard science game. The procedural galaxy may have certain "realistic" properties, though I somehow doubt the real galaxy is quite so dull and samey but the rest of the game essentially ignores any notion of believable science and that is honestly probably a good thing given the games nature.
OT, the ED galaxy is made using hard science period, please check your facts before you post rubbish.
Its not rubbish, the galaxy is much more than a collection of stars and planets.
Oh dear God I hope not... Let's get get this bit of the game working better before moving on to fresh areas to leave undone...
+1 to this. FD need to keep focused so they don't become like SC. A game in development for 5 years that's still nothing but a janky tech demo.
On the one hand: I agree with the person you are quoting. Let's get deeper before we get broader.
On the otherhand: I think you misrepresent SC, which should be released complete before the end of 2017. Not only is that not unusually long, but if you judge by feature set, it's faster than ED.
If the don't make some changes (or I don't find some settings) I won't be able to play it over motion sickness; but that's an issue all its own.
hah concernting SC. I'll believe 2017 when I see it. They don't even have mining in yet and I think they only just recently added anything resembling an inventory. Plus, everything just *feels* bad in SC to me. From the FPS stuff to the flying. It all just feels bad. Of course this will probably be tightened up with polish but ED is a dream to play comparatively.
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+1 for that.
As much as i would dislike a 3rd person mode that could provide situational awareness advantages in combat, i would love to have the option to control my ship when in camera mode, being able to dock, deploy hardpoints etc..
Currently we have immensely detailed ships with loads of small animations, which we never get to see..
So in theory, i have an idea of how my ship works, but to actually be able to see how all these slits, vents and hatches REALLY work & react on my input would be amazing.
Imagine you dock at a beautiful station or planetary base, and instead of being limited to landing from the cockpit [which isn't hard neither, let's be honest], you are able to see your ship within the surrounding area, see your landing gear deploy while other ships dock/undock in the background etc...
If anything, that wouldn't break immersion imho, but would be able to intensify the experience by providing a different scope of the area you are immersed into...
Except that such a thing isn't a thing. Situational awareness advantages occur only in environments with nearby obstacles (walls, windows) to look over or through.
Also (speaking of immersion); there's no data in a 3rd person space view that a ship wouldn't actually have. My car already uses cameras to give me a virtual top-down view. How much more could we get from a ship wing 32nd century scanners attempting to make a 3d representation of surrounding space?
Finally: My Oculus Rift gives me a situational awareness advantage. Will you be pushing to have that support revoked?
Also: If something not-mandatory breaks immersion for you; don't use it!
Whow, hold your horses my friend..
..and decide if this:
isn't contradicting this:
I make it easy for you... it is contradicting strongly, so maybe you want to check your ammo before trying to shoot next time?
As far as i can tell from your post, you must've totally misunderstood / misread my post somehow due to a trigger happy mood, so i use a clearer wording for you:
I WOULD TOTALLY LOVE A 3RD PERSON VIEW THAT ALLOWS US TO DO BASICALLY EVERYTHING FROM 3RD PERSON - EXCEPT FOR COMBAT - hope that's clear enough now...
As far as situational awareness goes, i was about to explain why situational awareness always is a matter of concern and not only in environments with obstacles upon reading your first sentence,
but then luckily you made it clear to me that you actually know more about situational awareness than your initial sentence had me thinking, and that devices such as the Rift will provide advantages in that realm as well...
To answer your question:
No, i am not going to 'push to have that support revoked', how do you even make such assumptions of me upon [mis]reading 1 single post?
As far as i'm concerned, my trackIR also gives me situational awareness advantages over non trackIR, leave alone VR, users..
However, implementing a combat capable 3rd person view would doom Elite Dangerous to being an 'action game' rather than a 'space sim'..
Fly Safe, CMDR...
It's not. Allow me a more verbose version of my original comment.
The situational awareness advantages *of third person view* occur only in environments with nearby obstacles (walls, windows) to look over or through.
Nice but non-sqeuiter. If you don't want to use a 3rd person view in combat don't. I don't want to either. That's no reason to to allow others to.
Ad homenem. You aren't going to tell me why 3rd person offers an advantage to situational awareness because it doesn't offer one.
1) No it would not
2) It's not a space sim now. ED is a WWII fighter sim set in space.
Well, i try to rephrase it as well then:
See, when you are cramped [more or less] inside a cockpit, the side panels, the floor, the roof, all these things act as 'walls' and take away situational awareness.
Now, if you compare that with a typical 3rd person gaming view, the 3rd person view usually offers not only a higher FoV, but also doesn't obscure your sight because the PoV is not from inside the cockpit but from outside [usually behind] the ship..
Both things help out with situational awareness massively..
Take a game like Planetside 2 for example [maybe not the very best example but still fitting due to the context]:
Pilots, Tankers and all other sorts of so called "vehicle ters" always drive / fly in 3rd person and only switch to 1st person when the enemy is in their sights.. Why? Situational Awareness, that's why...
If you have a camera chasing your spaceship, you will be able to see whats left and right of your ship at the same glance, try to achieve that with your Rift / my trackIR.. impossible.
So Situational Awareness is a factor when it comes to camera / point of view, like it or not...
As far as E.D being a WWII fighter sim set in space, i'd say IL2 for example flew completely different...
Which actually leads me to another example: Why do you think the combat capable 3rd person camera is a thing in Arcade games but not in flight sims like IL2?
Situational awareness, that's why... all the flight sims i know offer far better 3rd person camera modes than E.D does, none of them however offers a 'combat capable' 3rd person view.
If E.D is a space sim or not is something we wouldn't know until we enter the year 3301, otherwise it's all fiction anyways..
But it aims to be a sim, hence it tries to bring us the fiction in a convincing matter.. i think flight model wise etc it does a good job, and since this is the base for a good combat experience, it is my personal opinion that Frontier shouldn't go in the opposite direction now by implementing an 'arcade style' camera mode with all it's benefits: mainly situational awareness...
As i said before, i would love the added situational awareness when it comes to docking etc, as if anything it would help improving immersion because you could actually get a feel of how your spaceship appeals with the area and vice versa...
it's not as critical in such situations than it is in dogfights, at all.
Ok. Your direct view is, say, 180-degrees to the (functional, obviously not literal) horizon . Your radar view is 360-degrees to the limits of scanner range. Your 3d-holo showing your targets info and orientation is, likewise, 360-to-scanner-limit.
FoV is already more limited by the FoV setting than the glass.
If your complaint is with a high FoV, then complain about a high FoV, not third person.
Your FoV in 3rd is partially blocked by your ship.
Yes, you can see behind your ship... by whatever distance there is between the PoV and the ship itself... of course, if something is actually there to see, you can no longer see your ship nor in front of it.
Edge cases aside: there's no improved situational awareness... in all likelihood, it's actually worse. I know *I* find dogfights more difficult in 3rd than in first (see: most combat flight sims).
Conversely: I assert that someone with VR, multiple monitors, or head-look has superior situational awareness to someone without any of those things; yet, hypocritically, the "no 3rd person" crowd doesn't have a problem with those.
Take a game like Planetside 2 for example [maybe not the very best example but still fitting due to the context]:
So to be clear: your statement is *when in actual combat: the people you are talking about use 1st person because it's better*?
Thank you for making my case.
Radar.
Far more similar that Kerbal Space Program (an actual space game)
Citation needed.
Um.. no.
Physics will not change between now and 3301.
The benefit it doesn't have.
For an option you don't need to use.
Even though such a thing would actually be *more realistic* than a cockpit when discussing space flight in 3301.
It just feels like sour grapes from where I sit.
still believe SC will be feature complete on release? lol
and SC will also have NO 3rd person view UI either so can't really play in 3rd person lol
Press F1 twice to move to 3rd person.
And who said anything about having a UI in 3rd? I didn't.
And within the context intended: yes. SC will come out with essentially all of its features in-game at release; as opposed to ED which plans to release them over 10 years and 9-10 paid expansions.
Excuse me for not dissecting your posts as good as you do with mine, a] is it getting late for me and b] do i lack the routine of replying with [multi-] quotes in forums..
First of, to be clear:
No, i am not saying that people actually fight in 1st person all the time.. what they actually do [in Planetside 2 and other games that allow quickly switching between 1st and 3rd person mode] is constantly switching between 1st and 3rd person view [depending on the situation], reaping the benefits of both views.
Kinda like fly in 3rd person to see whats up, switch to 1st person to make the shot / attack, immediately switch back to 3rd person again to gain situational awareness, line up, switch to 1st person, make the shot, switch back 3rd person etc etc..
You don't have a HUD, target indicator etc in outside [3rd person] view, but you have a much better awareness of your immediate surroundings, including your enemies / possible threats in that area.
Yes, we do have a radar that shall help us with situational awareness from within the pit, and used correctly it does help.. But you, as a combat sim 'veteran', know as well as i do, that seeing things on radar doesn't compare to seeing things for real [as 'real' as seeing things on a computer screen can be, i guess].
Also, in order to look at the radar, you glance down and lose sight of whats actually behind your cockpit glass, so by gaining 'rough' situational awareness from the RDR, you give up possible knowledge about exact positions of enemies in your FoV from inside the pit..
Yea, some virtual aviators know how to use 'Pilot Vision' [1 eye constantly scanning the instruments], but the cluttered and messy radar in E.D doesn't make it easy on us.. Don't get me wrong, in theory the 360degree + vertical deviation indication is great stuff, and works as long as you have only 5 contacts popping up.. but when the radar gets cluttered with contacts upon contacts upon stellar bodies, the radar actually is of very little help, especially when trying to fly 'Pilots Vision'...
Time has no influence on physics, i completely agree.. yet i believe that in the year 3301 technology will have advanced a bit from now, maybe even to a point at which E.D like space flight is possible [maybe not].
Why are you trying to find points to 'prove me wrong'? As it stands, "it's all fiction anyways"... So, um.. Yea, Sorry!
I agree on the point saying E.D flies rather like IL2 than KSP, but that was the whole point of the game in the first place, wasn't it?
After all, fights in Star Wars look more like IL2 as well than they look like KSP [besides the space setting ofc]..
*Citation needed* - really?
Tell me a proper combat sim that allows combat capable 3rd person view.. I'm sure you can't, because you stated yourself that you 'fight better from 1st person cockpit view' - which is very true in terms of lining up for the shots etc... There is a reason you don't have a pitch ladder in 3rd person in BMS or no crosshair in 3rd person in IL2 - as well as no instruments whatsoever.. the only flight sim i remember giving basic flight parameters while actively in 3rd person view is FSX, ad we all know that isn't a combat sim by any means [yes attempts have been made and there is good stuff available, but that's 3rd party content only]...
I wouldn't like athird person view too but your argument...[weird]
Realism in Elite? I guess we are playing different games
Having a way to see behind you would be a good addition, though. Even a car has a rear view mirror.
Aren't you being somewhat optimistic on your timeline? They said the same thing when they had a Spring 2015 launch time frame. SC is the biggest ponzi scheme I've ever seen. Talk about dangling the carrot in front of the horse. I had the Rear Admiral package for over 2 years before I got my refund. In that time, I had a hangar and a beautiful ship that I COULDN'T FLY. I feel sorry for the people with 5 - 10 thousand, yes thousands of dollars invested in a game that keeps getting longer and longer to launch every year.
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