General / Off-Topic Police Violence in the USA.

[Adept]

The Police is useless in almost any country, I don't call them, that's why the 2nd amendment are so important, and should be a human right in any country.

There are racists and fascist sympathisers in the Finnish police force, but I'm much, much safer with them than I would be if everybody carried guns "for self defence". This place has way too many guns already, and I have seen a non police handgun outside of a shooting range or somebody's home exactly once*. I saw a dude marching towards the university campus with a big revolver tucked into the front of his trousers, a disheveled, half buttoned shirt failing to disguise it. I called the cops (I rode the other way on a bicycle passing the dude) and heard sirens maybe 3 - 5 minutes later from the direction he had been walking towards. Nothing in the papers later, so I think he was picked up before anything bad happened.

PS. I'm trying to say that you don't see handguns (or long arms) out in the streets... well, ever in Finland despite the fact that the country has heaps of firearms. It's mostly shotguns and hunting rifles though.

 

[Arry]

Yes. There seems to be a problem with accountability concerning policing in general in the United States. But there is also a specific problem relating to interactions between the police and minorities, as the article I have just linked makes clear. This is not news. And nor is it really open to dispute - there has been much rigorous academic research into the subject, and the evidence is clear - the way a civilian is treated by police officers, and by the legal system in general, is clearly and unambiguously influenced by ethnicity. It is not 'a big fat lie' or 'a fake reason'. It is the everyday experience of American citizens.

The problem with 'institutions'; be they an armed service, a sports club, a financial institution or even a country. Is the 'ingrained' ideals, beliefs and modus operandi are hard to change. These methods of doing things and ways of thinking, are past down, generation to generation and any new ideas, are often rejected; by the 'old order'. Along with the fact, that most of those, who question or wish to change, the old way of doing things. Are simply hounded out, shouted down or ostracised, by the majority: Who will of course, be very loyal, to the old order.

 

[Adept]

I know that. But im curious about how many white mans are shot like these 2?
Because if they are also begin shot and abused by police missteps, than the yammering about the police racism and brutality against minority, is just a big fat lie!
In this case its a fake reason!

If you are curious, find out the statistics. Don't start spouting racist "All lives matter!" stuff because you suspect it might not be real. It is real. Black people are treated differently by the police in the US. The statistics are a grim read.

 

[Arry]

Interestingly.
Police over here in Germany has hardly any accusations of being racists.

I would say that it is 'ingrained' into the German psyche; to try everything, to been seen, as the total opposite of racist.

 

[Sunleader]

If you think so, than you are naive... And not just a little! There are no social things, ideologies, laws and belíves, trough human history what someone haven't tried to abuse to his own ends.
Why this can be any different?!

Thats partially wrong as well.
Its true that every single ideology etc etc was abused at some point.
But its also true that many of them were used properly without being abused for decades.

Nontheless. The statement that there is no racism card is just as wrong.
Of course there is cases were racism claims are abused.
There is more than one case were foreign people were without question proven guilty and kept yelling they are only guilty cuz they are other race.


Question is always how much corruption there is to the system.
In Germany the Corruption is really low. So fake claims of Racism are found out and dont come through.
While actual racism is punished.
USA corruption is really high So. Fake claims are rarely made cuz people dont see any benefit from it. And real cases of Racism go unchecked and unpunished.

System can Work.
And for a Fact. What Germany does works far better than what the USA does.

 

[Minonian]

If you are curious, find out the statistics. Don't start spouting racist "All lives matter!" stuff because you suspect it might not be real. It is real. Black people are treated differently by the police in the US. The statistics are a grim read.

Yeah that's one statistic. But to know what it really means you must also put alongside another statistic, what shows you how many crimes committed by the different social classes and minorities?
Higher crime rate? more police actions.

And as i said there is racism, but also the racist card. Easy to use, and can cause a lot of damage, on reputation! And which is even worst the existence of one it does not closes out the another.
There are racists, whom saying they are falsely framed. there are the falsely (and intentionally) accused ones. And of course! there are the true racists.
There are the victims of racism, and there are the minority criminals whom hiding behind the racist cards babbling about they are just victims of racism, but in truth?

Trust me! racism, and racism card is just way too easy and strong to be not abused by some mucous worms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

In the matter of fact this is counted by a logical fallacy, and its goal to picture you as an inhuman monster.

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Nontheless. The statement that there is no racism card is just as wrong.

Man... you did it, when you pictured me as Donald Trump.

 

[Asp Explorer]

PS. I'm trying to say that you don't see handguns (or long arms) out in the streets... well, ever in Finland despite the fact that the country has heaps of firearms. It's mostly shotguns and hunting rifles though.

I've never been to Finland - but I've been to Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Holland, and heaps of other places. Nowhere there did I get the sense that people would carry firearms in everyday life. Here in Nowhere Illinois* - every man, woman and their dog packs heat. One of my very first memories of being in America was a very obese woman in Walmart, filling her powerchair basket with frozen pizza and shotgun shells. I'd never seen anything like it before in my life.

*Go to Texas and even the dogs fleas have at least a 9mm.

 

[Minonian]

There is more than one case were foreign people were without question proven guilty and kept yelling they are only guilty cuz they are other race.

PS; be Sure, is there a wolf when you cry one! And make very very sure is there is a wolf when you hear someone yelling about it!

This goes to both racism and racist card, homosexuality, drugs religious / ideological oppositions, and all kind of things like this. because they are also used in the same ways as these 2.

 

[Sunleader]

Yeah that's one statistic. But to know what it really means you must also put alongside another statistic, what shows you how many crimes committed by the different social classes and minorities?
Higher crime rate? more police actions.

And as i said there is racism, but also the racist card. Easy to use, and can cause a lot of damage, on reputation! And which is even worst the existence of one it does not closes out the another.
There are racists, whom saying they are falsely framed. there are the falsely (and intentionally) accused ones. And of course! there are the true racists.
There are the victims of racism, and there are the minority criminals whom hiding behind the racist cards babbling about they are just victims of racism, but in truth?

Trust me! racism, and racism card is just way too easy and strong to be not abused by some mucous worms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

In the matter of fact this is counted by a logical fallacy, and its goal to picture you as an inhuman monster.

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Man... you did it, when you pictured me as Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is not a Race
Comparing someone to an Individual with subpar levels of intelligence is not racism and also not the Racism Card.
I pictured you as Donald Trump in terms of Illogical Statements that dont make sense or are entirely inefficient towards the wanted result.
Not in terms of racism.

 

[Minonian]

The only problem? I was not illogical.
because you know? To assume some unwanted and troublesome elements also arrive with the migrants, is everything just not far fetched, or illogical. And when these people came, from a region where religious extremes, and terrorism is part of the everyday life?

It's more than likely!
This is all about probability, and when we talking about high numbers like these. We talking about a probability what bound to be happen!

Anway? to put the joke aside. We humans always will be in each others throat for one reason or another. nationality, race, religion, ideology, politics, resources, ects, ects... You can take out one element of these or more? It's does not matter we find another reason to argue, and wage vars, unless we at least try to tolerate each others.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I really changed my opinion in recent years on the police and the justice of the united states. And on the Americans in general

 

[Asp Explorer]

I really changed my opinion in recent years on the police and the justice of the united states. And on the Americans in general

Patrick my friend - Americans are really not all that bad. It's their government system that is a disgrace. The GF and I have seriously considered relocating back to the UK - but the weather is just terrible

Mind you - I'm only here on a green card and can't vote - so none of this is my fault

 

[Sunleader]

The only problem? I was not illogical.
because you know? To assume some unwanted and troublesome elements also arrive with the migrants, is everything just not far fetched, or illogical. And when these people came, from a region where religious extremes, and terrorism is part of the everyday life?

It's more than likely!
This is all about probability, and when we talking about high numbers like these. We talking about a probability what bound to be happen!

Anway? to put the joke aside. We humans always will be in each others throat for one reason or another. nationality, race, religion, ideology, politics, resources, ects, ects... You can take out one element of these or more? It's does not matter we find another reason to argue, and wage vars, unless we at least try to tolerate each others.

Mate you are Illogical on this.

There is 2 Paths to the Result.
One is a paved way with street lights and ground warming.
The other one is a dark field of quicksand with poisenous reptiles.

And you claim that we need to close the second path because otherwise they will come in droves by using it.

And sorry but no they wont.
Assuming them to take this path which only causes them losses when they have so many other paths they can easily use without risks is completely illogical.

Its like the Trumpwall.
Most Illegal Immigrants come by car over the already controlled streets or by sea.
Because there already is a fence anyways and because marching km through the desert is not exactly easy.

So building a wall wont prevent a single immigrant.


But well different topic. If you want to pick this up post it in the other topic pls.

 

[Adept]

PS; be Sure, is there a wolf when you cry one! And make very very sure is there is a wolf when you hear someone yelling about it!

This goes to both racism and racist card, homosexuality, drugs religious / ideological oppositions, and all kind of things like this. because they are also used in the same ways as these 2.

Er, what? Homosexuality? As in outing somebody as being gay? Are we back in the 1960ies?

 

[Asp Explorer]

Er, what? Homosexuality? As in outing somebody as being gay? Are we back in the 1960ies?

A lot of America moans about equality - then demands equality - and then moans when equality is introduced - then moans again about it not really being equality - and further demands equality be sanctioned in the name of equality. Then they demand that sanctions be equal, but in the name of equality the sanctions have to be equal, but biased in the name of equality.

You honestly couldn't make this sort of stuff up if you wanted to - but it's all just a google search away.

 

[Minonian]

And you claim that we need to close the second path because otherwise they will come in droves by using it.

No i'm not what i talking about all the time is we must be more careful.

So building a wall wont prevent a single immigrant.

But if you don't have any defense, and / or preventive measure than their job to get in, is became way too easy.
Allow me to use one analogy. Are you closing your house or car, with key? Yes you do. Why? Because if you don't than the robbers don't need to take any effort to rob you blind. The lock is only a minor inconvenience to them? True that. If someone really wants than he gets in anyway. And yet, there is a huge difference between average defenses and having no defenses at all...

Like the probability of begin robbed, and the numbers of unsuccessful robbery attempts / the number of they try it.
And again when there are millions outside of the borders, only waiting to an opportunity, than you definitely need a good lock, only to thin down the numbers.

They still coming in? True, but tell me? How much if you defend your borders, and how much if you are not?!
Tell me how many scums you going to have within them, if you have no defenses and safety measures at all, and how much if there is at least an acceptable level of security?!

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A lot of America moans about equality - then demands equality - and then moans when equality is introduced - then moans again about it not really being equality - and further demands equality be sanctioned in the name of equality. Then they demand that sanctions be equal, but in the name of equality the sanctions have to be equal, but biased in the name of equality.

You honestly couldn't make this sort of stuff up if you wanted to - but it's all just a google search away.

Yup, this is what im talking about.

 

[Sunleader]

Senseless defenses only take away ressources from your internal security.
Any Policemen you need to senselesly patrol a wall is one Policemen less you have to patrol streets and cities.
So having more useless defenses only makes it easier for criminals to break the country itself.

For example.
Building stuff and patrolling it to keep out and kill refugees will not block ISIS but actually help ISIS because the Money and Personnel are missing inside the Country thus making it easier for ISIS to strike.

But as i said.
Wrong topic.
Back to US Police Violence.

 

[Minonian]

Senseless defenses only take away ressources from your internal security.

Defense is not senseless. What is senseless to get to be overly paranoid. And to have a good border defense is never senseless. because there are not only migrants, but also smugglers, other sort of criminals, and intrusions from the part of other nations.

Building stuff and patrolling it to keep out and kill refugees will not block ISIS but actually help ISIS because the Money and Personnel are missing inside the Country thus making it easier for ISIS to strike.

Wrong example! To strike first they are need to get in, and if you stop them in the border? Yeah i know! they are already in! So, the reason they are already there means we must let more in?

But as i said.
Wrong topic.

not entirely its connected by racism, and police / security business. but yeah, its not entirely on topic either.

 

[TieKnee]

and if it was your mom, sister, brother.... you would call them .... they help and are there to help ... you can't call out an entire force for the misdeeds of one or two people, you cant paint them all with the same brush, if the people they shot did exactly what they were told to do there would not be any problem. but no, we are people who have our own minds and at times make wrong calls. #alllivesmatter

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/woman-shot-dallas-sniper-trying-204845414.html

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yup, this is what im talking about.

It gets even worse.

I recommend people for hire. I'm not in HR - I'm self employed - but I (and the other three MD's who offer the same services) were consulted, and we suggested one candidate because they were very knowledgeable, seemed to demonstrate skill and very polite, nicely dressed, and eager. They were young and didn't know the whole history of mainframe (who does?) but seemed willing to learn.

They were passed in favour of a clueless sod, simply to top off some "minority quota"

Sooner or later, people who actually can do their jobs will be in the minority.