General / Off-Topic Coup currently taking place in Turkey !

Just so you get an Idea.

in the last 5 Years.
Less than 500 in the Entire European Union Died as an Result of Terrorism.
This Includes Individual Radicals even if they had no Affiliation to any Group like ISIS etc.


Sorry Mate.
But so Far in the Statistics of Danger.
Terrorism Ranks somewhere between Mosquitos and your Average Cold. And yes your Average Cold. The Flue actually Kills way more People than Terrorism......

Heck. Your more Likely to be Killed by Bee´s than by an Terrorist......

The problem about terrorism is not the limited number of deaths but the psychological effect it has and how it's used.

The threat of terrorism and the 'war on terror' are without doubt at least partly responsible for the rise of the far right throughout europe.

Nonetheless, closing the border and excluding refugees would only hurt the real refugees. Terrorists have other ways of travelling to Europe, if they weren't born here. Domestic terrorists are a far greater 'threat' than terrorists which come with the refugees.
 
Terrorists have other ways of travelling to Europe, if they weren't born here. Domestic terrorists are a far greater 'threat' than terrorists which come with the refugees.

Five years ago today, right wing extremist Anders Brevik killed 77 people in two attacks in Norway. If you do a google search for "Anders Brevik BBC" and take a look at the text in the results, you'll see that the BBC always refer to him as a "mass murderer", not a terrorist.
 

Minonian

Banned
The problem about terrorism is not the limited number of deaths but the psychological effect it has and how it's used.

The threat of terrorism and the 'war on terror' are without doubt at least partly responsible for the rise of the far right throughout europe.
That's my point! Terror attacks are not just statistic, and accidents but also death of families whom can be in some chance our beloved ones.
Furthermore the impact in human psyche and society is just like a nuclear meltdown.

Nonetheless, closing the border and excluding refugees would only hurt the real refugees. Terrorists have other ways of travelling to Europe, if they weren't born here. Domestic terrorists are a far greater 'threat' than terrorists which come with the refugees.

Do you have any better idea?
 
The problem about terrorism is not the limited number of deaths but the psychological effect it has and how it's used.

The threat of terrorism and the 'war on terror' are without doubt at least partly responsible for the rise of the far right throughout europe.

Nonetheless, closing the border and excluding refugees would only hurt the real refugees. Terrorists have other ways of travelling to Europe, if they weren't born here. Domestic terrorists are a far greater 'threat' than terrorists which come with the refugees.

There is no Real Psychological Effect to be Honest.
The Psychological Effect is the Fear which is Spread on Purpose by the Government to Justify more Government Control without Resistance.

This does of course lead to some Increase in the Far Right Parties. But this Increase is Fairly Small and not going to Change something.
Especially not if the Government Deal with the Problem.

For example.
The AFD has been Stuck ever since the Refugee Crisis Left off.
 
Do you have any better idea?

Unfortunately we have seen how things go if you take the american approach and fund your intelligence services with vast summs of money.

I fear that there is no real solution to this problem. It doesn't matter how hard we restrict anything, attacks will still happen. We've seen in the past weeks in France and in Germany how easily civilian technology and tools can be used to kill.

To fight domestic terrorism you would need to monitor Mosques known for radical preachers and the concerning internet pages very consequently, probably with an permission to check everybody who visits said Mosques or internet pages regulary. Also you would need to find out who finances all this. Organizations like the IS or Al Quaeda (whether it's an organization or not) can't finance themselves fully and certainly receive financial support from somebody. Stopping that financial support would weaken terrorists a lot.
I personally suspect certain persons from Saudi Arabia (a country which I personally absolutely despise, no matter how international and friendly they try to appear).

I personally think the secret services are already doing a pretty good job at preventing terrorist attacks. Unfortunately lone wolfs as we've seen them last week are almost impossible to stop.

So no, I don't really have a better idea on how to fight terrorism. But closing the borders for refugees has literally no influence on the threat and possiblities of terrorism imo.

On the opposite, the camps which will undoubtly emerge on the border crossings are an ideal breeding ground for extremist ideologies of any kind. I prefer having the refugees in an area where they can be actively controlled and where they can be supplied with at least the basics of what they need to live. And no, I have absolutely no problem with cutting down some of the rights of not yet and unapproved asylum seekers, like freedom of movement, and punishing people rigorously who break the laws of their host country (of course you have to differentiate between minor and major infractions here and refugees shouldn't be punished harder than a usual citizen, but a refugee with several infractions should be turned away).

Another thing about terrorism is that we usually don't hear about the big sucesses, since many attacks are prevented by secret services and operatives and the very essence of a secret service prohibits it to make that public.

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There is no Real Psychological Effect to be Honest.
The Psychological Effect is the Fear which is Spread on Purpose by the Government to Justify more Government Control without Resistance.

This does of course lead to some Increase in the Far Right Parties. But this Increase is Fairly Small and not going to Change something.
Especially not if the Government Deal with the Problem.

For example.
The AFD has been Stuck ever since the Refugee Crisis Left off.

Not solely by the government. A large part of it is thanks to the media, who reports every incident in order to make money.

I would call that fear a psychological effect, since terrorist attacks aim for exact that fear. That's the reason why terrorists never kill quietly.

I'm honestly glad that the AfD is on the edge of breaking fully apart. It's the first step of the ending of the rise of the far right in Europe.
 
Same goes there there are just too many of them!
But you know what? Don't debate with them. Looks like they are the kind of people who don't understand the real problem until the refugees start to blow things up, like France needed to realize the true problem.
I don't wish this to them but it will be going to happen.

Or even after this they going to hold out in their viewpoint some people just never learn. Not from the things he see, and not even the things happen with them.

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Statistics says otherwise. ;)

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_quarterly_report
The peak began to drop after the land borders closed down and we are amongst the first who did this, in 2015 september.
Which is long before the deal Merkel made.

As an sidenote.

800px-First_time_asylum_applicants%2C_EU-28%2C_January_2015_%E2%80%93_March_2016.png



The Peak was in October Last Year. And Dropped to Nearly Half by December.
The Borders were Closed February this Year.....
3 Months after the Drop lol.
 

Minonian

Banned
Again WRONG. :)

Because the borders not closed from one moment to another, and not closed everywhere at the same time.
 
Again WRONG. :)

Because the borders not closed from one moment to another, and not closed everywhere at the same time.

Sorry Mate.
But one Country Closing Borders has no Effect as long as enough other Countries Keep Borders Open and thus Create Routes for Passage.

Fact is the Route was only Cut Off in March 2016
But the Refugee Rates already Dropped Radically in September 2015.
At this Time the only Country which had Closed its Borders was Hungary I think.
Which is not even Remotely Importand enough to have any Effect.

Moreover it has no Effect on these Numbers at all because it does not Affect how many Refugees Arrive in Greece.


You should get your Facts Straight Mate.
Your Repeating Rubbish I usually only hear from the AFD and other Right Wing Radicals.
 
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Minonian

Banned
Unfortunately we have seen how things go if you take the american approach and fund your intelligence services with vast summs of money.

I fear that there is no real solution to this problem. It doesn't matter how hard we restrict anything, attacks will still happen. We've seen in the past weeks in France and in Germany how easily civilian technology and tools can be used to kill.
You are right about this. There are no real resolution, what's 100% percent effective. What we have medicore resolutions, what we can do good enough to significantly drop the level of threat.

To fight domestic terrorism you would need to monitor Mosques known for radical preachers and the concerning internet pages very consequently, probably with an permission to check everybody who visits said Mosques or internet pages regulary. Also you would need to find out who finances all this. Organizations like the IS or Al Quaeda (whether it's an organization or not) can't finance themselves fully and certainly receive financial support from somebody. Stopping that financial support would weaken terrorists a lot.
I personally suspect certain persons from Saudi Arabia (a country which I personally absolutely despise, no matter how international and friendly they try to appear). I personally think the secret services are already doing a pretty good job at preventing terrorist attacks. Unfortunately lone wolfs as we've seen them last week are almost impossible to stop.

Agreed.

So no, I don't really have a better idea on how to fight terrorism. But closing the borders for refugees has literally no influence on the threat and possiblities of terrorism imo.
But wrong in there. It's eases the load. From significant to negligible. And if you can't close out completely the threat this is the next best thing what you can do. This is after all is a security business, what's mine business. ;)

On the opposite, the camps which will undoubtly emerge on the border crossings are an ideal breeding ground for extremist ideologies of any kind.
Wrong again. :) As far they are remaining in the other side of the border, why shoud i care? :) After all, the whole point of the security measures to keep this kind of vermin outside, and if they get in? Take care of it. So no! The fact they breed like rabbits, and time after time getting in does not means we let them inside the problem! In my book is just one more reason to keep outside the whole mess so they can't breed inside of our territories. So i say they must stay outside, and if they ever getting in? Than the security will take care of them. That's the other reason why the security measures existing right? :)

On the other hand? unlike Sunleader you just given a good reason why they must do something with their lives, and not just sit idly learning, job whatever? As far we keep them busy they not going to have the time to do something dumb. :p

I prefer having the refugees in an area where they can be actively controlled and where they can be supplied with at least the basics of what they need to live. And no, I have absolutely no problem with cutting down some of the rights of not yet and unapproved asylum seekers, like freedom of movement, and punishing people rigorously who break the laws of their host country (of course you have to differentiate between minor and major infractions here and refugees shouldn't be punished harder than a usual citizen, but a refugee with several infractions should be turned away).
With this i can agree. However? Like this done todays is not the right resolution.

Another thing about terrorism is that we usually don't hear about the big sucesses, since many attacks are prevented by secret services and operatives and the very essence of a secret service prohibits it to make that public.

True, The problem? Even this small means a lot of trouble.

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Sorry Mate.
But one Country Closing Borders has no Effect as long as enough other Countries Keep Borders Open and thus Create Routes for Passage.

Is that so?

Now you just arguing and don't know when you beaten. specking the small things to keep the debate going on until the other is got enough. But that's not makes you a winner.
 
Is that so?

Now you just arguing and don't know when you beaten. specking the small things to keep the debate going on until the other is got enough. But that's not makes you a winner.

[video=youtube;xwdba9C2G14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdba9C2G14[/video]

Sorry Mate.
We aint in the USA.

Making an Ridiculous Claim and then saying that you Won will not decide anything nor convince anyone.


Sorry Mate.
But Hungary Closing its Borders alone is not Stopping Refugees from going to Greece.
You dont need to Pass Hungary to come to Europe you know.

Its just another Reason why its entirely Unlikely that Closing the Borders had any Effect on Refugees.
Because Italy, France and Greece Still Allow Refugees. Which means while they can no Longer use the Routes from Turkey or the Routes through the Balcans.
They can still go for Italy, Greece and France. :)


Sorry Mate.
But at the end of the Day Closing the Borders had absolutely No Effect aside from Creating an Gigantic Refugee Camp at the Southern Border.
 
Most of these are the Valiant Type tough.
They are doing the Life Risking and often very Hard Travel. In Order to get Money and have their Family come after them in a Safer and easier Way.
Its not an Illogical Choice and something done very often in times of Trouble. If your in Trouble you Send the Strongest Person with the Highest Chances to Succeed to get Help.

It is precisely the problem. If 5 million single migrants make to come their families (supposing 6 people per family on average), this is 6 * 5 = 30 million of Muslims in more into the Europe. And after they have children, many children .... There are already many Muslims in Europe, and several times the experts have warned of the dangers of imbalance for the Christians on their land
 
It is precisely the problem. If 5 million single migrants make to come their families (supposing 6 people per family on average), this is 6 * 5 = 30 million of Muslims in more into the Europe. And after they have children, many children .... There are already many Muslims in Europe, and several times the experts have warned of the dangers of imbalance for the Christians on their land

Not going to happen.
No Offense. But Out of 1 Million Refugees only like 50.000 are Accepted and Granted Full Refuge where they can actually call their Families after them.

So I am Sorry. But another Absurd Number like 30 Million which wont happen.
I am seriously wondering where the Heck you always Pull such Scenarios From.
 
Not going to happen.
No Offense. But Out of 1 Million Refugees only like 50.000 are Accepted and Granted Full Refuge where they can actually call their Families after them.

So I am Sorry. But another Absurd Number like 30 Million which wont happen.
I am seriously wondering where the Heck you always Pull such Scenarios From.

And well in 2007 there were 53 million of Muslims in Europe and 16 million in the European Union. Since several years, the requests for asylum are increasing in the EU. The total number of claims was in fact to 332 000 in 2012, 434 000 in 2013, 625 000 in 2014, to reach the figure of 1.2 million in 2015. In 2016 we are already more than 130 000. And we speak here about the legal immigration. I can not imagine illegal immigration ...
 

Minonian

Banned
Sorry Mate.
We aint in the USA.

Boy... I'm the one, who teared to pieces the chewbakka defense. :D And you can be sure i'm not going to do this mistake.
But please, Keep doing it. With some people and in some matters, is pointless to argue with, and also needless.

I don't need to defeat you, because your cause is already lost.

That was my first kill.

About you? :)
G bye black knight you don't have any limbs left. ;)

PS;

[video=youtube;vPlT2uKruwM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPlT2uKruwM[/video]

Have you seen it? :) I seen several times. There is the resolution.

As far the cause lives on, it's pointless to kill the men. The cause lives on.
But if the cause lost? No need of fight. It's over...
And yours lost.
 
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And well in 2007 there were 53 million of Muslims in Europe and 16 million in the European Union. Since several years, the requests for asylum are increasing in the EU. The total number of claims was in fact to 332 000 in 2012, 434 000 in 2013, 625 000 in 2014, to reach the figure of 1.2 million in 2015. In 2016 we are already more than 130 000. And we speak here about the legal immigration. I can not imagine illegal immigration ...

"Claims" and Accepted Refuge. Is Two Different Things Mate.
Even Less is the Number of actually being Granted that Family is allowed to Follow.....

They are certainly of Muslims

Sorry. But I am Atheist.
By Birth I am Roman Catholic.

:D

Boy... I'm the one, who teared to pieces the chewbakka defense. :D And you can be sure i'm not going to do this mistake.
But please, Keep doing it. With some people and in some matters, is pointless to argue with, and also needless.

I don't need to defeat you, because your cause is already lost.

That was my first kill.

About you? :)
G bye black knight you don't have any limbs left. ;)

Mate the only thing you teared apart is any credibility you might have had at some Point in the Past.

And Sorry to tell ya.
But my Limbs are Intact.

I just Massacred your Knights and you got no Holy Grenade my Friend.
For my Case is Simply Reality ;)

And unless by some Crazy Miracle your Fantasies of Doom come to Pass (Its more likely we will be Raided by Aliens before that happens) you will go down in my Memories as just another Tinfoil Prophet of the Internet ;)
But. SHOULD in what Miraculous way ever. We really Fall Apart and Europe be Conquered by Muslimes thanks to having Millions of Refugees Overwhelming us.
I shall Apologize to ya Officially and Send ya a Crate of the Best German Beer I can get here.
Good thing that wont ever happen cause this stuff is Expensive :p
 
Just so you get an Idea.

in the last 5 Years.
Less than 500 in the Entire European Union Died as an Result of Terrorism.
This Includes Individual Radicals even if they had no Affiliation to any Group like ISIS etc.

Sorry Mate.
But so Far in the Statistics of Danger.
Terrorism Ranks somewhere between Mosquitos and your Average Cold. And yes your Average Cold. The Flue actually Kills way more People than Terrorism......

Heck. Your more Likely to be Killed by Bee´s than by an Terrorist......

But it's scary, and somehow in the Conservative brain structure that trumps everything. Your statistic must be wrong, or irrelevant because the terrorist are coming to get us! Or if they won't bomb us they will have more children than us and in 300 years they can vote in Sharia law!

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Wouldn't be nice to wake up one day and find you are living under Sharia law....

See what I mean?
 
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