General / Off-Topic Third incident in two weeks in Germany

[FuzzySpider]

Yeah i already got this. Too serious, to not act.
Now we are just running circles.

Edit; You know who Breivik right? Such threat cannot be allowed to walk and talk freely.
And the threat represented by terrorism is high and serious enough to justify harder measures. Just a few dead man? Are you boys seriously saying while we just talking 10 or 100 mans whom the government directly responsible for, its ok to not even try minimalise the risk?

Such government does not fulfill his duty, and take care of his own people.

Of course it's ok to minimize the risk.

You speak to them, you ask your own citizens who know and understand the cultural norms of wherever the refugees come from to help you. You engage in dialogue, try to make them feel more secure and less anxious about their situation.

There is a common theme to these sort of attacks. People feel dispossessed and desperate, and are looking to make a very big and loud point that will be noticed.

What isn't acceptable is to attempt to minimize the risk by separating the two different groups of people or "cracking down" on one particular demographic by grabbing them, dragging them around, and treating them with suspicion and hostility. This is unacceptable for two reasons;

1. It is inhumane.

2. It actually makes the risk a whole lot worse.

 

[Minonian]

What isn't acceptable is to attempt to minimize the risk by separating the two different groups of people or "cracking down" on one particular demographic by grabbing them, dragging them around, and treating them with suspicion and hostility. This is unacceptable for two reasons;

1. It is inhumane.

2. It actually makes the risk a whole lot worse.

Yes... This is how it goes, and this is just one more reason to act, without the exaggerations and angry hatred of the lynch mob. And that's the reason why the government must remove the dangerous elements. With it, he is not just protecting his own citizens but also protecting the normal migrants, and the peace between the migrants and his own citizens. The less gunpowder in the air? Is the better.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Yes... This is how it goes, and this is just one more reason to act, without the exaggerations and angry hatred of the lynch mob. And that's the reason why the government must remove the dangerous elements. With it, he is not just protecting his own citizens but also protecting the normal migrants, and the peace between the migrants and his own citizens. The less gunpowder in the air? Is the better.

Explain how to remove dangerous elements. Explain how you target that precisely without making mistakes and alienating the very people you are trying to bring over to your side.

 

[Minonian]

Explain how you target that precisely without making mistakes and alienating the very people you are trying to bring over to your side.

The short answer? You cant! You can't do it without mistake, but if you do nothing, than it's became far more worst.

 

[FuzzySpider]

The short answer? You cant! You can't do it without mistake, but if you do nothing, than it's became far more worst.

If you do nothing then the terrorists are confined to a few lunatics on the fringes. And lunatics on the fringes are far more likely to be outed by their own communities, especially if those communities feel a sense of obligation towards their host nation.

Treat people with suspicion, and make "mistakes" which see innocents accused of terrorism or worse, and you'll find yourself trying to solve problems of your own making.

Doing nothing is actually preferable:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/12/04/ST2010120404317.html

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...a-muslims-reported-fbi-plant-em-to-the-fbi-em

The FBI sent a man into a Mosque undercover, had him pretend to be a radical, had him talk about committing terrorist acts. The people in the Mosque contacted the FBI to warn them about this terrorist. When they found out the truth? Well let's just say the FBI will not find any help there...

 

[Minonian]

I already got this, if you don't try to do against this kind of threat anything, as justly you can, than the angry r left lynch mob going to do it. And in this case? the war between EU and his own migrants surely going to erupt.
You just following your own scripts blindly.

Besides, the justice system is not perfect, sometimes innocents are condemned and criminals let run. But this is no reason to not do justice at all.

And the same goes to the migrant situation too.

This is not a mathematical, or physical equation, where one single mistake corrupts the results. This is the life, and in life, we all do mistakes, and no sane man ever considered to stop living and acting because he can make a mistake.

The mistakes are calculated risks. Just like failing in gambling.

 

[Sunleader]

Which War...
Which Left Radical Lynchmob...

God Man what sort of Fantasies are you having there ???


There is neither a War with the immigrants nor will anything erupt.
Pls try to keep it down to the serious lvl.

 

[Minonian]

God Man what sort of Fantasies are you having there ???

The one where the German R left burning up refugee caps after refugee camps.

Oh wait! It's not a dream...

 

[Sunleader]

The one where the German R left burning up refugee caps after refugee camps.

Oh wait! It's not a dream...

Mate thats the right wing radicals.
And this stuff has been done for 30 years.

As an sidenote.
Right Wing Radicals have been a larger threat than ISIS for decades as well.

So sorry to burst the bubble but thats not refugees fault. Nor will it destroy Europe

 

[Minonian]

True swiched the sides. me bad, but my bubble not going to be burst because of that.

 

[Adept]

A bit like some commanders here who are in permanent denial ...

Or just refusing to be terrified by a group trying to make us scared, but who have minimal actual impact. The biggest harm these terrorists manage to do is to empower Islamophobic forces and amoral, opportunistic politicians who ride the wave of that atavistic fear. Le Penn, Farage, Orbán...

And the tools for both are the normal people who are scared out of their skulls and stoke and spread that fear and call for extreme measures. The Russians in particular have a term for people like that.

 

[Minonian]

Terrified, or careful? Not the same thing, and in this case? Caution is justified.

You know? A knife even in a idiot's hand can do a lot of damage. You must respect this.

 

[Adept]

Yeah i already got this. Too serious, to not act.
Now we are just running circles.

Edit; You know who Breivik right? Such threat cannot be allowed to walk and talk freely.

Interesting name you drop here. Please tell us how you would have stopped Breivik ahead of time? If the solution is scrapping the open society of Norway in favour of some kind of police state, armed guards in the government district and the Socialist party's youth wing camping centre then I think your cure is worse than the disease.

Breivik was stopped, caught and locked up. He is a nasty, dangerous individual who has been unhinged by Islamophobic propaganda. He thought he was waging a holy war to preserve "Western Culture" from the hordes of Muslims. Essentially he was inspired to act by the very same propaganda you are pushing. I'd half expect you to be celebrating him. He would take you seriously here. He thought no cost is too high to stop the Muslims. That is the result of preaching alarmism, intolerance and fear.

 

[Minonian]

Breivik was stopped, caught and locked up. He is a nasty, dangerous individual who has been unhinged by Islamophobic propaganda.

That was i talking about. And for the same reason more carefulness is necessary when we dealing with the migrants. Because there is a threat, what we let in.

I'd half expect you to be celebrating him.

Hate to disappoint you, but actually i think he very well deserved the prison.

He thought no cost is too high to stop the Muslims.

Well? I don't think in this way.

 

[Adept]

That was i talking about. And for the same reason more carefulness is necessary when we dealing with the migrants. Because there is a threat, what we let in.

You seem to miss the point. There is a ton of violence happening because unhinged people keep getting fed islamophobic propaganda. There are racist street patrols in Finland, dangerous far-right populist parties in the parliaments all over Europe, and people like Breivik blowing people up because they've been fed the idea that there is some kind of culture war or invasion going on.

How about you start taking that side of the matter seriously too? Breivik alone caused the better part of a hundred deaths, and it was the anti-muslim fearmongering that caused it. You don't seem to worry about that side of things.

 

[verminstar]

I'm not beyond taking in refugees from a warzone...genuine refugees that is. That's the issue fer me...there's no control over the numbers coming in.

I also know that stopping the refugees at the borders or just sinking them in the boats won't make a damned bit of difference to stopping the terrorism part. They are of a very different mindset than the rest of the mob and do not need such things as a refugee crisis to get in and do what they will do...I understand that well. The point being that the refugee crisis and the movement across europe is being used like a trojan horse if ye will. Without the proper controls and screening in place, there is literally nothing stopping them from getting to where they want to be.

Now, of course there's always a few who just go a bit nuts with the fanaticism. Always gonna be a few trigger happy fruit loops dreaming of an eternity with a hundred virgins who just ain't gonna be able to keep that religious fervor at bay, but this actually works in their favor. Means they never short of volunteers fer one thing...spread fear with isolated incidents...create panic and kneejerk reactions...oh my it's like free advertising and creates even more panic as they drip feed old recordings of beheadings onto social media.

It's the ones coming across and not blowing themselves up that ye need to worry about. These guys have something a bit more long term in mind and that is something I fear we shall come to regret.

Stopping desperate, hungry and frightened people at a border or a sinking ship won't stop a damned thing when it comes to terrorism. It would also be an extremely cold and heartless thing to do considering they in this mess because of events we started. But to simply open the doors wide to any and all without some form of control? That's asking fer trouble on both sides of the fence...as this thread proves ^^

 

[Minonian]

And the only way to stop their violence and phobia, ad absurdum! If you pull out his poison teeth by at least try to filter off the worst of the immigrants.
They can only keep yammering that long, as they have reason.

 

[Minonian]

I'm not beyond taking in refugees from a warzone...genuine refugees that is. That's the issue fer me...there's no control over the numbers coming in.

I also know that stopping the refugees at the borders or just sinking them in the boats won't make a damned bit of difference to stopping the terrorism part. They are of a very different mindset than the rest of the mob and do not need such things as a refugee crisis to get in and do what they will do...I understand that well. The point being that the refugee crisis and the movement across europe is being used like a trojan horse if ye will. Without the proper controls and screening in place, there is literally nothing stopping them from getting to where they want to be.

Indeed. thats the real issue what my dear friends don't want to understand. No screening, no control, or whatsever. This is the recipe of a disease. And they are not even place the ones already expelled to closed refugee camps. from after the troubles settled down they can go home, and until than, they won't cause any trouble to us. And dont forget in most cases we talking about criminals so?

Stopping desperate, hungry and frightened people at a border or a sinking ship won't stop a damned thing when it comes to terrorism. It would also be an extremely cold and heartless thing to do considering they in this mess because of events we started. But to simply open the doors wide to any and all without some form of control? That's asking fer trouble on both sides of the fence...as this thread proves ^^

Yeah... That's the problem. How you balance out these two? In a level you must harden your heart. But how much? How you deal with the ones you can't let in?

 

[Patrick_68000]

I want to stop such killing and wounding. You want to perpetuate it.

This is a serious charge. You should measure your words. Apparently, the terrorists are not alone in having psychiatric problems

 

[Becks]

This is a serious charge. You should measure your words. Apparently, the terrorists are not alone in having psychiatric problems

Stop sniping each other or the mods are going to lock another thread in this endless debate ^^