Competitiveness and the Spirit of Exploration

[Jackie Silver]

This is a follow up to a comment on another thread: what place is there for competition in exploration?

I think it's undeniable that there is a degree of competition to get to places, as evidenced by the people who seek to reach the furthest cardinal points and to reach far-flung stars, and I think that to some extent it's a good thing; it drives us further out and that's a good thing for exploration.

Another point in favour is that it can keep us - well, I'm speaking for myself - humble. I need reminding sometimes.
(I used to think of myself as a pretty good PvP combat pilot, too. Back in the early days maybe I was. Nowadays... )

On the other hand, I think we've already passed a series of points of - I'm not sure what to call them - points of completion, perhaps. Sadge was reached, the galaxy was crossed, the galaxy was circumnavigated, people cross the rifts between spiral arms, you get the idea. The place is known, or rather, the limits of the place are known, more or less. So the competition we're left with is a competition of numbers, and I think that's misleading and not particularly useful. If Alice jonks to visit Sadge and Bob detail scans every iceball in the Pleiades their stats aren't comparable in any way and more importantly shouldn't be compared, there's no point at all...

So yeah; competition, good for exploration in some ways but perhaps becoming less relevant as time goes on.

I'd like to hear your thoughts!

 

[iain666]

As you say, there aren't really any notable 'firsts' left and the stats available are both buggy and not really suited to any kind of general competition. Trying to get into the top ten distances submitted to EDSM, or at least stay in the top twenty, isn't even a thing any more.

Other than buckyball racing, which is only tangentially related to exploration, has any worthwhile competition left to it.

Should better jump potions or engineer upgrades become available and make new 'furthest' systems available then there'll probably be a brief race to tag them but that's about it.

I'm happy with that.

 

[Whitmann]

Competition or competitive spirit is not the same as comparing numbers. I agree that the "big ones", to use a slightly nebulous phrase, have been all but done; what remains is stats. And while these are interesting as markers or a guide in terms of accomplishments in some areas, they not only do not tell the whole story but quite possibly can give an untrue reading. I admit I felt a sense of pride and achievement from doing the Crab Nebula Expedition, the light years travelled, the systems tagged, etc. But if I think about it, the best 15 minutes of the whole 6 week experience - and among the very best experiences I've ever had as a gamer in 30+ years at it - was the lead-up to the mass jump of 58-ish CMDRs from the final WP, and the subsequent jump itself. That was incredible, and it's nowhere in the stats how amazing I found it. Nowhere. The fact I had to travel 11,000ly to get to it is irrelevant. The fact I made the thing a round trip of 23K ly is also irrelevant, proud as I am to have done it unscathed. You can't measure experiences, "wow" moments, jaw-dropping vistas, or STILL finding wonder and beauty in seeing a star through a gas giant's rings. Those things are what make us explorers. Yes, for the cold hard stats measuring what we've done and where we've been, but more how we did it and what we saw out there.

"Wherever you go becomes a part of you somehow" - Anita Desai

 

[Arry]

You call it competition? However: apart from the distances and the 1sts, what other types of competition are there? To be honest, we all wish to be, the 1st. It is ingrained into human nature.

One thing I do see, among explorers, is a great sense of valour and comradeship. Read any thread, about the lost, the stuck or dry and you will always see someone, an explorer, starting their post with: 'I am in that area, will be alone soon'. Even to 1st time posters here.

Apart from the 300billion+ undiscovered places to find first; are there any points, that have not been reached yet?

 

[verminstar]

There are stats? Seriously...I wasn't even aware these stats so much as existed...scoreboards rarely interest me as they never measure how much I enjoy a game. I don't have to be good to enjoy a game, although it certainly helps although I'm slightly handicapped here because I'm stuck with an older machine and keyboard/mouse combo, so my expectations aren't the same. Basically means I'm fairly mediocre at combat here...however my expectations were to start exploring and not really worry about the multiplayer side of this game so much. I came from another game where the community just made me wanna vanish fer a few months, hence exploring this place was the most enjoyable solution. All the trade and stuff was basically a means to fund the asp ex with all the trimmings of long range.

Sagi arm? No idea where it is. Jaques station? Is that up or down on the map? Don't know and don't care to find out. I don't know the region names because I intentionally make the effort not to...why would I do that? If I knew where I was going, then I'm not really exploring, just following someone elses route...I sorta like the feeling of being completely and utterly lost. Ok so currently I'm in the bubble refitting because I lost my SRV and had to go back which took 4 days, but hey, it's all good...I get to change a few things that were     ling me like finally getting a 6A fuel scoop...saw where someone else got theirs so I do pick little things up here and there...I just avoid the more detailed guides and learn mostly from my own mistakes.

I love it...thought this game would only last a month or 2 but I'm still here after 3 although who knows what the future holds. I've never seen a black hole yet and I still havent managed to penetrate the core...this is my third expedition and this time, I'm just gonna cross the spiral arm looking thingmabob and hope fer the best cos it's looks a bit sparse there. Pretty sure you guys could name that from memory but me? I'm heading into the wilderness without much knowledge of where I'm going only that it's bright and I just can't resist going into the light...whatever you guys call it.

Got two SRV this time...cya in the black ^^

 

[popuptoaster]

I have gone upwards, up where the stars are thin, and you need a modified FSD and jumponium to get places. You don't need to go far out to find vast tracts of undiscovered space, I set my goal as a specific star far up above the galactic plane and am trying desperately to find a way up there.

you make your own rules and your own challenges, it's not numbers with me, anyone can jump jump jump across the galaxy I'm having fun working at finding ways across the gaps.

 

[Arry]

There are stats? Seriously...I wasn't even aware these stats so much as existed...scoreboards rarely interest me as they never measure how much I enjoy a game. I don't have to be good to enjoy a game, although it certainly helps although I'm slightly handicapped here because I'm stuck with an older machine and keyboard/mouse combo, so my expectations aren't the same. Basically means I'm fairly mediocre at combat here...however my expectations were to start exploring and not really worry about the multiplayer side of this game so much. I came from another game where the community just made me wanna vanish fer a few months, hence exploring this place was the most enjoyable solution. All the trade and stuff was basically a means to fund the asp ex with all the trimmings of long range.

Sagi arm? No idea where it is. Jaques station? Is that up or down on the map? Don't know and don't care to find out. I don't know the region names because I intentionally make the effort not to...why would I do that? If I knew where I was going, then I'm not really exploring, just following someone elses route...I sorta like the feeling of being completely and utterly lost. Ok so currently I'm in the bubble refitting because I lost my SRV and had to go back which took 4 days, but hey, it's all good...I get to change a few things that were ling me like finally getting a 6A fuel scoop...saw where someone else got theirs so I do pick little things up here and there...I just avoid the more detailed guides and learn mostly from my own mistakes.

I love it...thought this game would only last a month or 2 but I'm still here after 3 although who knows what the future holds. I've never seen a black hole yet and I still havent managed to penetrate the core...this is my third expedition and this time, I'm just gonna cross the spiral arm looking thingmabob and hope fer the best cos it's looks a bit sparse there. Pretty sure you guys could name that from memory but me? I'm heading into the wilderness without much knowledge of where I'm going only that it's bright and I just can't resist going into the light...whatever you guys call it.

Got two SRV this time...cya in the black ^^

My idea of exploring, is to jump to the next system, there is no info for. I have yet to move more than 150Lys, at any one time.

 

[Qohen Leth]

It never struck me as even existing in exploration. Besides being the first to get to some distant star, perhaps. But that depends how early you started the game... I see a lot more cooperation than competitiveness

 

[Allitnil]

Nothing wrong with a bit of competition as long as it is healthy. There's always been competition among explorers but it's more of a sort of co-operative competition. It's about sharing information to allow others to build on what we find rather than finding an edge & keeping it secret.

As for numbers, well they're pretty meaningless, but it can still be fun to compare them. And they can also be useful to set personal goals.

 

[Yanick]

I get the impression that most explorers are in it for the enjoyment of seeing great sights, out in space.
And as has been mentioned before, there is more co-operation among explorers than competition.
It's unlikely we'll ever explore the whole galaxy, that would take thousands of years.
But we can allways enjoy the ride

 

[MattG]

It's going to annoy me if(when) I drop out of the top 10 contributors in the List of Earth-Like Worlds. Does that make me competitive?


But yes, as time goes on there are less "firsts" to be claimed so there's less competition in that sense.

 

[CMDR CHIGGY VONRICTOFEN]

It's going to annoy me if(when) I drop out of the top 10 contributors in the List of Earth-Like Worlds. Does that make me competitive?


But yes, as time goes on there are less "firsts" to be claimed so there's less competition in that sense.

Come hunt with me, my friend! (I'm still working on my project for you BTW)

 

[Philip Coutts]

There has always been competition in exploration. First man to reach the pole, first man to climb a mountain, first man on the moon. So yes there is room for competition, it tends to force progress. That said I'm not talking about cut-throat must win type of competition I'm talking about mutual respect in competition.

 

[Macedonica]

I have an odd take on the whole exploration/competitive debate: I think the element of competition to mark the 'firsts' is overexaggerated. These were achieved as aims in themselves and not in competition with anyone else, I think. To call them competitive aims is to overlook the solitary nature of many of those first discoveries.

However, those 'firsts' kickstarted a more ambitious phase where it was possible to deepen and develop the idea of firsts in relation to the initial phase. This provoked a more competitive nature among us, I think, and is all the healthier for it. All sorts of achievements were made off the back of those early gains and discoveries. Look at the DWE, for example. While collaborative and supportive, many in the loose rag-tag 'fleet' were quick to scoot ahead as if it was a race. This was fun and developed a good rapport among the members. It also allowed those who were slower or caught up in RL issues to relax and realise that the DWE was a loose long elastic structure which supported both competitive CMDRs and also those who were in it for the long slow burn of the simple pleasure of discovry. DWE in many ways was a microcosm of us all.

That middle phase is passing now with the emergence of the exploration fleet movement. This is still a new phenomena but has emerged quickly in the way of DWE.

If we follow the analogy of mountaineering, for example, the first discovery is always held up to inspire others. The follow-up is a refining of that discovery and the means with which it was achieved. What follows that consolidation is a challenge to develop the 'pure line' up the mountain or the single ascent rather than a series of base camps.

This is what will happen now: CMDRs will aim to beat records, engineer better FSDs, faster routes. Exploration will turn inwards and competition will foster new horizons inside the limits of the galaxy. Look at what happened with the amazing discovery of Mount Nervi, for example. Within a day of Furtive Pigmy locating the first ever mountain which was tall enough to break the Orbital Cruise line, an expedition was assembled at a rough base camp and the first multi-CMDR summit bid was attempted. In the following days dozens of CMDRs pushed their SRVs up that impossible mountain and broke loose into low orbit. One even descended into the mountain to see what would happen. Exploration and competition combine but also develop each other.

Soon, I suspect, we will all look back on the past few months as the halcyon days of true exploration!

 

[Traveller_GG]

I think it worth pointing out that there was absolutely no competitive spirit involved in my starting a thread about Exploration stats. It was entirely and unequivocally out of a sense of curiosity at what others had achieved. (actually to extend this: I want to see if any has actually managed to earn more than a million from one system and what it took)

For an 'Elite' explorer I know my stats are pretty mediocre, so I'm not in the slightest bit worried about anyone having better or not as 'good'

What I am fascinated about is the huge variety at how people have achieved it... you can already see different tactics being reflected in the stats that are being shown.

The only thing I ever got competitive about was trying to fall off the edge of the Galaxy, but I blew that. Twice. The first time I got really far out but while I was doing so, Horizons dropped and FSD boosts became possible, so my attempts could be easily jumped past. Then when I GOT the FSD boosts and went back, the blasted Engineers came out and the basic maximum jump range shot up again and THOSE efforts were wasted. I'm not going to try again, I may sulk.

 

[Pirin]

When i explore i try to find a sector of space unexplored by other commanders and look for two types of things:
1. spectacular sights
2. largest/smallest and most/least massive objects

Not sure if this counts as competitiveness but i want to find things that stand out. That makes me feel i actually made a discovery. Finding yet another red or brown dwarf with boring set of planets is not particularly exciting. As things currently stand numbers are one of the few ways to tell that one colored space ball is different from another. So i have no choice but to hunt for numbers.
That said i would be very happy if FD give us more exploration goals: alien civilization ruins, abandoned spaceships, wormholes or whatever.

 

[Qohen Leth]

Wormholes à la EvE could be nice, I suppose.

 

[Whitmann]

I think people's stats and knowing about their explorations are fab, as long as it is seen as "Wow! Maybe I could do something similar/ do that too/achieve as much" rather than "I am teh bestbest cos furthest/first/most".
And refreshingly it seems us explorers are by FAR the least full of braggadocio of any of the other types of player. Ive only ever seen people sharing their finds, experience, and knowledge. Long may it continue.

 

[popuptoaster]

I have protected my interests in the past, came across another commander scanning the same systems I was scanning out near Sagittarius A, we exchanged a greeting then some banter about who was entitled to these scans, then he said he was racing back to claim them in case I beat him to it so I shot him down as I was still on the way to the centre.

I've always put weapons on my explorer ships in case of trouble, it caused a hooha on the forum when i admitted doing it, but every time anyone ever asked about explorer loadouts I always advised newbies it may not be safe to go unarmed and unshielded and then a few weeks after my incident armed players arrived at Sag A and started murdering every explorer they met.

I'm not competitive regarding numbers but I still carry weapons and shields, the four small pulse turrets and undersized shield on my 'Conda are not going to worry a well armd fighting vessel, but they'll scare off anything unarmed and will at least make me feel like I have a small chance if I meet aliens!!

 

[Whitmann]

I have protected my interests in the past, came across another commander scanning the same systems I was scanning out near Sagittarius A, we exchanged a greeting then some banter about who was entitled to these scans, then he said he was racing back to claim them in case I beat him to it so I shot him down as I was still on the way to the centre.

Really? Good lord.