2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Moonax IRL]

Here's your intelligent alternative: explorers can go off and do their thing, and people who don't get anything out of endless loading screens and pretty sights that I could find in seconds with Google can just make the trip once, and transfer their stuff.

Your penchant for staring at loading screens doesn't make you more intelligent than I am, and this game is not called "Elite: Hyperspace Loading Screens."

I thought so, nothing intelligent to add just the usual asinine reply, definitely the cartoon gameplay of NMS would suit you.

 

[CiaphasHRO]

and i have to add: should not be working outside the bubble.

 

[Joe Akeem]

Immersion in games does not need to follow real life 100% but at least reference it.

This little gem of a snippet grants you a rep, mate. o7

 

[Lobstris]

Okay, it doesnt have to be a formal equation but we should give the devs at least a 'range' of values that 'we' consider to be too low, too high or acceptable. I agree with the variables you suggest should be factored in, that would add depth to it all, but a simpler approach would work for me to. The big question to me is how it scales with ship cost and range. If a new player wants to move his combat Eagle to where his mining Adder wound up for some quick nav beacon hunting, I dont see that as game-breaking in any way and I'd be cool with a rather small price (say, 10k). But moving a corvette to jaqcues should be almost prohibitively expensive (random suggestion: 500mil). Exponential increase of cost based on range would work very well, as you suggest. Just my opinion. But I think it would be useful for the devs if we'd specify this a bit better.

I'd go along with your suggestion - it needs to be something cheap enough at short ranges, so that the casual player who wants a blast in his local region of space isn't priced out of the market, but (as you say) scales rapidly with ship cost (which could form a parameter for a function to determine the 'constant' or 'power' in my equation), jump range and distance, so that Long Range Smuggling, or excessive use to influence CGs, or just popping a ship over to Jacques with no effort, doesn't occur (too often).

Whichever way you slice it, if you factor in jump ranges and ship costs, Corvette owners are going to be salty!

 

[Kintch]

Hm, I think a great solution would be to be able to transfer the ships and modules completely remotely (from A to B, while you're at starport C), but with a delay (varied time and cost based on jump capability and distance, but nothing too prohibitive). This way if you know you're headed to a specific scenario you can order a specific craft or module moved there ahead of time -- adds element of planning and foresight; you know... depth. Would also go a long way of not cheapening the whole travel part of the game...

 

[Odan Brota]

Meh, make it instant. The cost is credits, credits = time. Waiting in a station is bad gameplay, it isn't gameplay at all (ponders sitting in his desk chair looking at his phone while in supercruise...). Immersion is great but making someone order their ship and then tell them it will arrive in 2 hrs is not going to add to immersion, they'll just log out until the next day when they can actually play the game. Logging out is about the least immersive thing you can do.
-
If it makes you feel better you can always wait an appropriate amount of time before using the ships

This.

I thought so, nothing intelligent to add just the usual asinine reply, definitely the cartoon gameplay of NMS would suit you.

Before you question my intelligence, you should at least learn proper grammar. That being said, attacking me personally just because my opinion is different than yours (and you struggle to make yourself understood) is lame. Take it to PM and stop derailing the thread.

Taking interstellar distances into the equation though (for the sake of muh 'mersion), it may be several weeks before I reply.

 

[Moonax IRL]

This.



Before you question my intelligence, you should at least learn proper grammar. That being said, attacking me personally just because my opinion is different than yours (and you struggle to make yourself understood) is lame. Take it to PM and stop derailing the thread.

Taking interstellar distances into the equation though (for the sake of muh 'mersion), it may be several weeks before I reply.

Thanks, its feels good to use your brain now and then.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

Hm, I think a great solution would be to be able to transfer the ships and modules completely remotely (from A to B, while you're at starport C), but with a delay (varied cost based on jump capability and distance, but nothing too prohibitive). This way if you know you're headed to a specific scenario you can order a specific craft or module moved there ahead of time -- adds element of planning and foresight; you know... depth. Would also go a long way of not cheapening the whole travel part of the game...

That's a very good idea.

 

[Varrag]

Nothing wrong with instant transfer. This game already has hell a lot of time sinks, I am not sure that we need another one.

 

[Yaffle]

FWIW as the thread is moving quickly and these things get lost it may be worth restating the DDF's view on this, which I must confess to quite liking.

Multiple Ship Ownership

In Elite: Dangerous players can purchase and own multiple ships. The player can only pilot a single ship at a time, so other ships they own must be stored somewhere, and made accessible to the player in a believable, fun way.

• The player acquires ships from various traders and vendors around the Galaxy.
  • Players will primarily purchase ships for credits from ship yards
  • Ships may also be won through bets and competitions
  • Ships may be given as rewards for events or missions the player completes
  • When the player has acquired a new ship they will receive the choice to switch to the new ship or continue flying their current ship
    • A choice like this is only offered in places where a ship can be stored otherwise the newly acquired ship will be somewhere else waiting for the player to go pick it up
• Players can trade in the ship that they are currently flying when purchasing a new ship
  • Players will receive a percentage of the value of their ship if they decide to trade in their ship
    • This percentage is based on wear and tear a ship can sustain over its career and its current state of maintenance so well maintained ships will have a higher percentage than beaten up ones
  • Players will lose any cargo they have in the ship if they choose to trade in their ship to buy a new one
    • Players will receive a warning allowing them to back out of a purchase and go sell their cargo
    • Many shipyards have trading points where players can sell their cargo, although rates may be less competitive than at other markets
  • Alternatively any cargo can be transferred to the new ship if able prior to being sold/disposed of
  • Fitted equipment will need to be stripped out and stored as cargo for it to be transferred from the old ship to a new one
  • Any transfers of cargo and/or equipment can be transferred for a fee.
    If the trade in value of the player’s current ship is higher than the value of the ship they wish to buy, they will receive the surplus in credits
    • The player will receive a warning when they choose to trade in to ensure they don’t trade in a ship by accident
• Players can store ships they are not currently piloting
  • Initially the player will have nowhere to store a ship
  • The player will be able to rent (or buy) hangar space – for an initial fee, and then a rental. Not all stations will have storage space, and some will be cheaper than others. Storage spaces will come in a range of sizes (s,m,l). There isn’t a cap to the number of ships a player can store this way, other than the drain on their cash
  • A number of different facilities can offer ship storage, with a range of different prices
    • E.g. functional - shipyard storage, luxury – High end Storage attached to high end residencies in central locations, cheap – warehouses in remote locations
  • Storage fees are deducted daily from their account, and there is an additional fee in some locations (generally the cheap ones) to retrieve the ship from storage, when the player wishes to pilot the ship again
    • The fee increases over in-game time only (i.e. if you’re logged off it won’t increase)
  • Players can store their ships at multiple locations
    • Registering a new location for ship storage costs a fixed one-time fee
    • Once registered a player can visit that location or any other registered storage location they have to arrange ship transfers between them which costs a fee to transport them, based on distance and law level of the intervening route (though the transfer happens magically – perhaps on a giant freighter).
  • Players can only swap their current ship whilst in a registered storage location
    • If the desired ship isn’t present then the player must arrange a transfer which costs a fee and takes time based on the distance the transferred ship needs to travel to get to the current storage location
      • The same restrictions and pricing as above are applied here too
    • Once the transfer is complete the player is notified and is able to dock and swap their ships putting their old ship in storage at that location providing they can also pay the storage fee accumulated for the transferred ship since it went into storage (including all previous storage locations it’s been at and transferred from since last flown)
    • Cargo and equipment can be transferred for a fee, as with ship purchase.
• Players can buy a new ship without trading in their current one but must choose which of the two ships they would like to pilot afterwards
  • The ship the player chooses not to pilot will have to be sent to any of the player’s registered storage location (possibly including the same station they’re at)
    • If no storage location is registered then the player is forced to register one
    • If a storage location is available (or has just been made available as above) it can be selected for the ship to be sent to without needing to pay a transfer fee as this is included in the price of the new ship (i.e. ensures that the player can transfer their ship despite having no money left after the purchase)

Note: It was discussed with the DDF that we would consider giving those who have named a station a voucher for free large ship storage on ‘their’ station. This could be a nice way to reward our backers in game.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Wow! I can't believe they chose to make it instant.

Imo it should be rough cig packet maths on how long it would take based on an average build for each ship. ... that way ship transfer is useful but at the same time not trivialising the size of the galaxy or making all ships have no downside for jump ranges.

The thinking behind this decision eludes me.

Having it take actual time is still better than it being manual because it takes what.... 15 hrs roughly for a good jump range ship to get to sag a and what 40hrs for a more limited ship (a guess) having it take this time is still better than a player having to do it because it is not them having to do it, they can still be playing the game with them en route or just set then off before going to bed on a work night.

FD do some great stuff but then they seem to go out of the way to arcadify the game. Arcade fantasy games are fine but at no point when they were out with their hats out in kick-started did they hint that that was the direction they were going. FD were all about believable features in a convincing galaxy 1000 years in the future.

Is the instant time set in stone or open to change?

 

[gobbles]

My vote is on delayed transfer.

 

[dannysquid]

Meh, make it instant. The cost is credits, credits = time. Waiting in a station is bad gameplay, it isn't gameplay at all (ponders sitting in his desk chair looking at his phone while in supercruise...). Immersion is great but making someone order their ship and then tell them it will arrive in 2 hrs is not going to add to immersion, they'll just log out until the next day when they can actually play the game. Logging out is about the least immersive thing you can do.

This.

This too.

I just think the situations in which you're going to want to transfer ships/modules are situations where you're going to want it to happen straight away. The problem at the moment is inconvenience, and adding wait times seems just as an inconvenient as the current system.

I understand all the "immersion" arguments, but would rather be less immersed and happy than immersed and frustrated.

 

[jasonbarron]

Is the instant time set in stone or open to change?

Depends on which group complains the loudest and most strenuously

@sleutolbos, re: your question about how "hefty the transport should be," I haven't given it a lot of thought, but I'd say right off the top of my head that it should sting the wallet enough to give players pause before relying on it constantly. A million or two (or 5-10m) to ship your FdL from Cubeo to Sothis, for example. Dramatically more to get it shipped one way to Jaques. Enough to make it a big decision for the player as opposed to a magic button press.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Wow! I can't believe they chose to make it instant.

Imo it should be rough cig packet maths on how long it would take based on an average build for each ship. ... that way ship transfer is useful but at the same time not trivialising the size of the galaxy or making all ships have no downside for jump ranges.

The thinking behind this decision eludes me.

Having it take actual time is still better than it being manual because it takes what.... 15 hrs roughly for a good jump range ship to get to sag a and what 40hrs for a more limited ship (a guess) having it take this time is still better than a player having to do it because it is not them having to do it, they can still be playing the game with them en route or just set then off before going to bed on a work night.

FD do some great stuff but then they seem to go out of the way to arcadify the game. Arcade fantasy games are fine but at no point when they were out with their hats out in kick-started did they hint that that was the direction they were going. FD were all about believable features in a convincing galaxy 1000 years in the future.

Is the instant time set in stone or open to change?

Have you seen the vid? If you extrapolate it's gonna cost over 300 million to get a large ship in jaqcues. Thats not 'trivial'.

 

[Odan Brota]

Have you seen the vid? If you extrapolate it's gonna cost over 300 million to get a large ship in jaqcues. Thats not 'trivial'.

300 mil, that's a spicy meatball. Seems fair, though. Still lets combat pilots use the service around the bubble easily enough.

 

[Brodie]

NO TO INSTANT TRANSPORT!
This should take just as long as it would take the player and if I had my way, would come with a slight chance of damage or loss (insurance payouts would be supplied in these cases).

 

[jasonbarron]

Have you seen the vid? If you extrapolate it's gonna cost over 300 million to get a large ship in jaqcues. Thats not 'trivial'.

I just edited my post above to answer your question to me earlier re: hefty transportation price before I saw this; yes, that would qualify IMO, and if Fdev sticks to that, I'd be satisfied.

 

[MyHammer]

Nothing wrong with instant transfer. This game already has hell a lot of time sinks, I am not sure that we need another one.

Its not a time sink since you can do missions, exploration, etc. with your actual ship while the other is being transferred.

 

[Rowander]

There should be a timer on the ship transfer.
First, because Insta transport is immersion breaking.
Second, because it can be exploited by ships with small jump capabilities.
Optimal time would be equal to the time needed for that ship to get there manually. Count the jumps needed, add 30 seconds per jump, and that's it. Cost should be equal to the fuel needed for the full trip plus a small fee dependant on ship worth.
There should be a maximum distance allowed for this service, say... 1000LY.
That would be convenient for us, realistic, and very useful if planned ahead. It would add another layer of planning to the game.