Are the FD Devs so FAR out of TOUCH...

[Werewolf13]

... that they have no clue about the tech that's currently available in the 21st CENTURY?

I'm a bit buzzed right now and a bit miffed.

And though I've been playing ED for nigh on to a year and a half I've never really bothered to look at the weights of the various modules that can be mounted on one's ship except power plants, thrusters etc. Probably should'a kept it that way too - never bothered to look at the details that is.

Today I wanted to mount some 6A sensors on my Python 'cuz I'm gettin' a bit tired of being able to see with my eye what my 6D sensors can't seem to see. And if the sensors can't see 'em I can't scan 'em and that's ANNOYING as h.ell!

The best sensors I could find after searching for a while were 6C. And after I saw the specs and the typical emission range of 6KM and WEIGHT of 40 TONS!!!!

ROFL!!! I'm almost afraid to find some 6A's and see what they can do, and what they'd cost.

Come on. GEEEZ. I know from personal experience that there are on this planet this very day in use thermal sensors that can see stuff well past 6KM that are man portable.

I love ED - It is my most played game for the past year and a half bar none but for kee-riste's sake at some point the DEVS need to pull their heads out and take a look at what's available now, in the 21st century and get over the silly just plain stupid!!! tech that's available in the 34th century.

And please, don't even start on the LORE. Because unless the human race devolved into an idiocracy some of the tech in the game MAKES no SENSE. Or - I guess they could just change the LORE and tell us all that yes - IDIOCRACY is what the human race turned to.

Yes, yes - I know ED's only a game but it doesn't have to be a stupid, makes no sense game to make it playable. And there's more than just a bit that's just plain nonsense in ED.

That said: I'll keep playin' it. I'll live with a 40 ton set of electronics, I'll deal with the insane price and I'll keep on having fun. Just have to drink a little more wine to get my sense of disbelief to kick in.

 

[M. Volgrand]

Even assuming that you were right -which, honest, I am not completely sure- there is a balance in every videogame: Playability vs realism.

So, let's assume that a 40 tons sensor, 6A, could actually detect ships at, let's say, 100km. All right, now fly until you are closer than 3km to shoot it. Heh... good luck having fun with that!

And you are also forgetting something: ED´s sensor can detect things at millions of kilometers (beter said, at several light seconds of distance). What do you think those "Unknown signal sources" are? Strange signals that your sensors have detected, your computer decripted and shown you in your hud so you can investigate them. You get closer, get more info: "Hey, there is weapons fire in there", but until you drop from SC you cannot see what is really in there.

 

[Cynaqq]

Yes. A 40 ton sensor which works in a ship that literally flies through the corona of stars.

The range is simply a game design choice to make sure people are actually getting visuals of what they are shooting at, you know, to get the cinematic effect. Otherwise it would be an electronic warfare which resembles nothing like the intensity you can get with ED's fights.

 

[KR4K40]

it's just that ED's balance is around "WWII planes in space" which is debatably good. it can be fun but I'd rather have relativistic torpedoes, 100km missiles, 20km cannons and multicannons and such. Using instruments to initiate a fight rather than visual.

meh, it is what it is: design choice

 

[Privata]

There was this GalNet about weight limits and standardising everything.
It seems like ''tone'' is more slang than actual weight.

On top of that , I imagine the stuff they use to build the tech is heavy in the elite universe.
For example my head canon on why documents marked at 1T was because of the container that carries them

 

[Trafalgar Law]

it's just that ED's balance is around "WWII planes in space" which is debatably good. it can be fun but I'd rather have relativistic torpedoes, 100km missiles, 20km cannons and multicannons and such. Using instruments to initiate a fight rather than visual.

meh, it is what it is: design choice

Done well that could be a fun game... but it wouldn't be Elite.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

A lot of things in ED don't make sense and are done that way for "gameplay" reasons.

 

[mikey_205]

it's just that ED's balance is around "WWII planes in space" which is debatably good. it can be fun but I'd rather have relativistic torpedoes, 100km missiles, 20km cannons and multicannons and such. Using instruments to initiate a fight rather than visual.

meh, it is what it is: design choice

Thats more eve onlines style to be honest where twitch controls are meaningless and computers do the targetting with strategy and tactics being the pilots focus. I dont think it would work in elite.

 

[Werewolf13]

Thats more eve onlines style to be honest where twitch controls are meaningless and computers do the targetting with strategy and tactics being the pilots focus. I dont think it would work in elite.

So what you're saying is that elite stresses twitch and fast reflexes over brains.

In the 34th century battles WILL be fought by computers over ranges unthinkable today with humans interjecting the unpredictability, deciding the strategy and the tactics.

Human history proves that humans gravitate towards technology taking over the the mundane things that technology can do better than humans while humans retain the functions that revolve around creativity, instinct intuitive problem solving etc.

Is there a space game that encourages that or are we stuck with fighting WWII in space ships that can't fly faster than a 22LR bullet in normal space even though in the 21st century it is commonplace for a plane with a jet engine to be able to do so? Why are we stuck with sensors that can barely see farther than the human eye?

And it isn't just ED - Mechwarrior is the same way both of which are games I play and are very fun except for one thing. The tech in them is utter nonsense and that alone destroys the immersion and renders it to the level of just another slightly more complex arcade game.

ED with immersion...

One can only dream.

 

[Mohrgan]

The Mass of any given Module changes based on it's rating. A, B, C, ect. It is not a linear climb to A being the heaviest. A rated modules are the 2nd lightest Modules, just after the D rated versions. B rated modules are the heaviest, with C rated anything being all but useless, and outfitted in only in the most extreme circumstances. Go to Coriolis and do just a bit of research before you pitch an undeserved fit.

 

[JerryLove]

A much more basic question (and yes: ED is well below current tech on all sorts of things including detectors): Why do scanners in larger ships weigh more? Also: why does life support (which varies only by how big the bottle of air for your space suit is) weight more in larger ships?

To quote everyone rallying against basic game-play stuff like module storage and 3rd-person views: "It breaks immersion".

 

[Mikey2305]

Can anyone really predict what technology might be available even ten years in the future? Or what might be lost to humanity in the very distant future?

 

[mikey_205]

Eve online abstracts all this in a sort of windows interface and aiming movement etc... controlled by an onboard computer directed by the pilot. I think elite is different, you feel physically in control of the ship and i think thats a key part of the appeal for most, of course a computer should be able to automate a landing, but its not as fun. I cant see combat working at all in current mechanics with ranges like that. Give eve online a go ships have weaponry with optimal ranges going to 200km or can be specialised for close combat. Combat is about numbers, preparation and module selection. The ships automate all the twitch functionality.

 

[Werewolf13]

The Mass of any given Module changes based on it's rating. A, B, C, ect. It is not a linear climb to A being the heaviest. A rated modules are the 2nd lightest Modules, just after the D rated versions. B rated modules are the heaviest, with C rated anything being all but useless, and outfitted in only in the most extreme circumstances. Go to Coriolis and do just a bit of research before you pitch an undeserved fit.

Go back and reread my original post.
Not about weight though the weight is total . It is about the detection ranges and the inanity of the lore that explains why.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Can anyone really predict what technology might be available even ten years in the future? Or what might be lost to humanity in the very distant future?

Maybe not - but if a civilization that has conquered the stars cannot create sensors that can look past 6 or 8KM in normal space then one has a legitimate reason to question those that imagine such a civilization.

 

[Cmdr Dubstep Dragon]

... that they have no clue about the tech that's currently available in the 21st CENTURY?

I'm a bit buzzed right now and a bit miffed.

And though I've been playing ED for nigh on to a year and a half I've never really bothered to look at the weights of the various modules that can be mounted on one's ship except power plants, thrusters etc. Probably should'a kept it that way too - never bothered to look at the details that is.

Today I wanted to mount some 6A sensors on my Python 'cuz I'm gettin' a bit tired of being able to see with my eye what my 6D sensors can't seem to see. And if the sensors can't see 'em I can't scan 'em and that's ANNOYING as h.ell!

The best sensors I could find after searching for a while were 6C. And after I saw the specs and the typical emission range of 6KM and WEIGHT of 40 TONS!!!!

ROFL!!! I'm almost afraid to find some 6A's and see what they can do, and what they'd cost.

Come on. GEEEZ. I know from personal experience that there are on this planet this very day in use thermal sensors that can see stuff well past 6KM that are man portable.

I love ED - It is my most played game for the past year and a half bar none but for kee-riste's sake at some point the DEVS need to pull their heads out and take a look at what's available now, in the 21st century and get over the silly just plain stupid!!! tech that's available in the 34th century.

And please, don't even start on the LORE. Because unless the human race devolved into an idiocracy some of the tech in the game MAKES no SENSE. Or - I guess they could just change the LORE and tell us all that yes - IDIOCRACY is what the human race turned to.

Yes, yes - I know ED's only a game but it doesn't have to be a stupid, makes no sense game to make it playable. And there's more than just a bit that's just plain nonsense in ED.

That said: I'll keep playin' it. I'll live with a 40 ton set of electronics, I'll deal with the insane price and I'll keep on having fun. Just have to drink a little more wine to get my sense of disbelief to kick in.

were the pole?

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Just as an FYI - the instance range between you and the edge before a player merges with you is (IIRC) 10KM.

Perhaps the range of 6KM is simply to allow for merging to happen & stabilise before popping them onto your scanner ?

 

[Kingtutuk]

I think scanners should scan all ships within range at the same time so you dont have to faff about looking at every one one at a time, kill warrant scanning or cargo scanning, yes use your extra scanners for that, but when dropping out of supercruise your scanners should be able to scan to identify all ships in range (including clean or wanted status), one at a time in supercruise is acceptable because you can only pull one ship at a time with your interdictor.

 

[tarragon]

IDIOCRACY

Blame game design team. I'd call it Sandrocracy or Brabencracy.
In other words, whatever they think will fly.

 

[avow555]

Werewolf31 I totally hear what your saying, the weight of some modules defies stupidity.
In my opinion, sensors, docking, wake scanner, and all those should be computer upgrades with no weight issue whatsoever.

 

[Jack Schitt]

<JUSTIFICATION MODE ON>

Why do scanners in larger ships weigh more?

The scanner system includes the emitters and detectors that cover the hull. The bigger the ship, the more hull to cover.

Also: why does life support (which varies only by how big the bottle of air for your space suit is) weight more in larger ships?

The air bottle is only for when integrity is lost. The rest of the time the life support is supplying environmental controls for the whole ship. Bigger ship, more life support hardware.

<JUSTIFICATION MODE OFF>

In truth some stuff is easier to justify than other stuff, but the OP is right even if his style is a little aggressive. It's just one of those things you have to live with if you want to enjoy ED. I try not to think in terms of raw mass, more in terms of "I can have one of those, or two of those, and they'll decrease my manoeuvrability by the same amount."

Another way to consider it is that Elite was an early 1980s vision of the future, filtered through the influences of classic 1960s and 1970s SF movies, art and literature. ED is a more polished version of that, so you have to be more accepting if some of the concepts and technology come across as a little retro-futuristic.

And if nothing else this thread gives me an excuse to once more post this image of the cutting edge in 34th century flight computers.