2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

Do you want ship and module transfer, if so how long should it take?

  • Yes, I want ship transfer.

    Votes: 1,869 71.1%
  • No, I don't want ship transfer.

    Votes: 90 3.4%
  • Yes, I want module transfer.

    Votes: 1,522 57.9%
  • No, I don't want module transfer.

    Votes: 137 5.2%
  • Transfer should be instant.

    Votes: 638 24.3%
  • Transfer should take a small fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 656 25.0%
  • Transfer should take a large fraction of the time it would take manually.

    Votes: 585 22.3%
  • Transfer should take at least as long as it would take manually.

    Votes: 696 26.5%

  • Total voters
    2,629
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
To all those 'wanting to wait/have a delay':
Pick up the phone and call a business and get put on hold. That'd be fun wouldn't it!
This change DOES NOT SHRINK THE GALAXY! You'd still have to fly your ships
It DOES NOT VIOLATE THE SPIRIT OF THE ORIGINAL ELITE! That was the 80's this is 30 years later. Are you still waiting for the new millennium? Cause waiting is fun!
If instant ship transfer break your imersion: set an alarm for the time you personally think is right. Don't inflict a pedantic desire to have everything realistic in a science FICTION based game on those that don't want it.

Yes, I just called Amazon because I want my new laptop NOW. For some reason, due to the laws of our universe, they insist on delivering it to me taking a finite amount of time. The rules of the Elite universe does not permit teleportation, or why would any spaceships be needed?
 
Okay, except now you're tying a player asset to a timer, and if the player starts moving around

Limit of one active transfer per player, with timer record and location recorded in player record? Ship becomes available at that location after timer has expired and pilot has logged on to station services (anywhere)?
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Okay, except now you're tying a player asset to a timer, and if the player starts moving around and progressively adds more and more assets to more and more timers, you get a situation where the database gets clogged with a ton of temporal entries (something Sandro is trying to avoid, if you start having lots and lots of ships in transit - "Stateful" ships - the database size could start growing in fun ways). So the only way it works is if the timer is REALLY short, like, 5 mins or so tops. In which case there's no point having a timer at all.

If you query sends as one-to-many (as that's what they would be as a CPU problem), well, you're generating so much CPU overhead that the AWS bill for the month is going to "Blow players faces off" ;)

Just like missions - and their timers are not generally short.

Also, as mentioned by another - limit the number of ships in transit to a relatively low number.

The "temporal entry" element of a ship in transit would be its recorded "arrived in station" date/time - and it would only become available in that station once that point in time had passed (even though it had been moved instantly when the player summoned it) - checking whether it had passed would be trivial - and it would not require a timer of any kind.
 
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Thats a good idea, a simple re-purposing of an already in place game mechanic to good effect.

However I dont think the implementation is the issue, they said it themselves in the livestream, its a gameplay design decision. They just dont think (rightly or wrongly) that forcing people to wait for 10's of minutes or hours to get their ships is practical.

I like the "idea" of having to wait as it is unarguably more realistic, but I think making it more accessible is a better design choice. YMMV.

I think the real balance will come down to how much it costs. Get you Beta feedback ready! ;)
Kinda funny how people can't do multitasking to the point that they can't wait for a ship to arrive and do something in the ship they are currently in at the same time. Guess that says a lot about the target audience of FD :D

[video=youtube_share;reKwLxi4eCk]https://youtu.be/reKwLxi4eCk[/video]
 
I can see this introducing a new meta as well. Combat ships with 2D class FSDs to increase available power and reduce weight for better optimal mass for thrusters.

Those who don't use the taxis to get around to CGs or other PVP areas will find themselves at a distinct disadvantage.
 
Things that are instantaneous in this game:

-Refueling
-Repairing
-Rearming
-Getting out of and into new ships on pads hundreds of meters apart.

Stop crying for immersion when it's already lost.
 
same here, and the fact that my forum account is so recent is part of it ...
but i m done repeating myself again and again.
i m against it, exept if they add a real mechanic as i explained here : #1807

edit:
Things that are instantaneous in this game:

-Refueling
-Repairing
-Rearming
-Getting out of and into new ships on pads hundreds of meters apart.

Stop crying for immersion when it's already lost.

i really hope your just trolling ...
refueling isn t instant if you aren t in a station ... far from it.
and why would you want to wait for repares/rearming ? its not like it will shrink anything from the game... unlike magic teleportation or wormhole speed delivery


 
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Wrong. That "straw poll" that has the same result as the first two choices in the forum poll. "Do you want ship transfers?" Yes/No. If they left out the "instant" they'd get the same result, because of course people want ship transfers. That's not the question!!!

The question is, should they be instant?? And that Reddit straw poll fails to ask that question.

But on this forum poll, they actually give the option to say you don't want it to instant, and guess what? 78% do not want it to be instant.

Also straw polls are extremely easy to cheat. Nothing on Elite Reddit ever gets above a few hundred upvotes, let alone THOUSANDS. :rolleyes:

99% of people would rather die in their sleep than burn to death. Therefor humans are in danger of going extinct. [haha]
 
Yes, I just called Amazon because I want my new laptop NOW. For some reason, due to the laws of our universe, they insist on delivering it to me taking a finite amount of time. The rules of the Elite universe does not permit teleportation, or why would any spaceships be needed?

Gotta love those slippery slopes, right?
 

I wasn't necessarily talking about that poll per se. I was talking about the amount of hostility I've seen (first hand) in other quarters of the internet for even daring to suggest that ship transfer is a bad idea. ;) That said, from either the reddit poll, this forum, or my social media exchanges, we just don't know 'true' opinion. And won't till this goes live...

PS: Made the same point about that reddit poll only really having two options, and the vast majority actually agree that 'transfer = good' a few pages back. ;)
 
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Yes, I just called Amazon because I want my new laptop NOW. For some reason, due to the laws of our universe, they insist on delivering it to me taking a finite amount of time. The rules of the Elite universe does not permit teleportation, or why would any spaceships be needed?

Fair point.

But Elite is a game, a fictional universe whose rules can be altered.

Amazon is in the Universe we belong.

With a different set of rules. :)

Otherwise we shouldn't have neither the fsd, laser torpedo shields and so on.

Havin said that, instant trasfer sound like a gameplay balance: fun against waiting a timer.

Still can't understand why a so reasonable decision is so contested by people.

They could reach the same effect by using wormhole inside the universe: maybe this solution was better but would have taken devolpment time.
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
Things that are instantaneous in this game:

-Refueling
-Repairing
-Rearming
-Getting out of and into new ships on pads hundreds of meters apart.

Stop crying for immersion when it's already lost.

Those are all internally consistent though, and you can't do a fat lot while they are going on (yet) so instant is a necessity. It isn't here, and being able to teleport isn't internally consistent with the game's fundamental mechanics.
 
I can see this introducing a new meta as well. Combat ships with 2D class FSDs to increase available power and reduce weight for better optimal mass for thrusters.

Those who don't use the taxis to get around to CGs or other PVP areas will find themselves at a distinct disadvantage.

People could already do that and refit when it was time to travel.

Moot argument.
 
Okay, except now you're tying a player asset to a timer, and if the player starts moving around and progressively adds more and more assets to more and more timers, you get a situation where the database gets clogged with a ton of temporal entries (something Sandro is trying to avoid, if you start having lots and lots of ships in transit - "Stateful" ships - the database size could start growing in fun ways). So the only way it works is if the timer is REALLY short, like, 5 mins or so tops. In which case there's no point having a timer at all.

If you query sends as one-to-many (as that's what they would be as a CPU problem), well, you're generating so much CPU overhead that the AWS bill for the month is going to "Blow players faces off" ;)

Like others have said, wouldn't the "timer" simply be one extra field with a timestamp? Transfer the asset instantly. Lock the asset from use until server time > timestamp. This is only checked when you enter the shipyard UI. I really have a hard time believing this would break the servers.
 
If we get Instant transfer and its explained that it's a 3d printing thing then all station need to be like Jameson Memorial to have all the parts necessary... that to would be a time saver, no need to travel to get ships and parts... ( I don't want Insta transfer )
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
People could already do that and refit when it was time to travel.

Moot argument.

But they did need to think, plan, and work out where to refit. Now it's just push a button, done. This reduces game strategy. Heading out to Jaques in the hope of refitting every A class module could be a challenge.
 
To all those 'wanting to wait/have a delay':
Pick up the phone and call a business and get put on hold. That'd be fun wouldn't it!
This change DOES NOT SHRINK THE GALAXY! You'd still have to fly your ships
It DOES NOT VIOLATE THE SPIRIT OF THE ORIGINAL ELITE! That was the 80's this is 30 years later. Are you still waiting for the new millennium? Cause waiting is fun!
If instant ship transfer break your imersion: set an alarm for the time you personally think is right. Don't inflict a pedantic desire to have everything realistic in a science FICTION based game on those that don't want it.

What about logic , immersion and ballance
 
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