not bothered either way. Whatever the decison, someone will complain.
2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter Kintch
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Just to borrow from.MaddogMurdok:I know why people want it now but it's a space pilot game where location matters and travel is a big part of the game.
It's like telling the marathon runners that their event is a bit boring, can't you skip the first 26 miles and just do the last 365 yards, thanks guys.
Besides, repairing, refueling, respawning, etc. would only affect the player itself and wouldnt have consequences on the Overall gameplay (which insta travel probably would have as a lot commanders have pointed out already).
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The problem is engineers, apparently the module is unique (except on rebuy >.>....<.<...>.>).
I'd be okay with a wait of 30 minutes.
Thing is some people who are hardset against it and others who are less radical want to make it so it's not convenient. as the quote above i'd be okay with only a 30 minute wait at the most.
True, but then FD can't say that "we will not make a AutoPilot function, because that will not be in the spirit of the game" all that goes right down the drain 100%
Uh huh, you're not thinking about activity distribution of players one bit, or about database blocking issues when lots of people log on at the same time. Do remember that a lot of this is moderated through AWS and not through Frontier's own hardware (which means that it does suck pretty badly for realtime arbitrage).
You mention that queries exist concerning ships, only stateless ones, easy ones, stuff like "Where is my ship at this moment in time", not "Where is my ship going to be at N time", the moment you throw temporality into the mix, this stuff gets a lot trickier, and because the temporal stuff can't be handled locally (think client hostility) that means a scheduler unless you want the server to get rekt every peak time when lots of people are logging in and out because the sheer volume of queries will at some point cause the database to get in a snit.
You're not having to deal with things like client hostility and a rolling set of changes that are ongoing in realtime, your queues are "simple", email goes in, email goes out. Making ship transfers time based would make them a lot less simple because you'd need a scheduler to ensure that they got moved around the database and the transaction server didn't go kablooey.
This is the last post I'm going to make on the tech quagmire because I'm not going to keep explaining stuff to people who are wilfully misunderstanding the complexities of these kinds of things.
That's exactly what you're doing. The starting blocks are where your ship is now, the sprint is whatever is where you want your ship to be. The 26 miles is the journey across the bubble to that destination.
The point is that location should matter, each combat CG should potentially have a different outcome based on peoples willingness to go to it. A CZ in the Pleiades should have a different mix of ships than one in the heart of the bubble. Travel is trivial enough already, instant transport just makes all of space even more generic.
I'm running out of reps. Have a symbolic rep
Indeed!
Because it's cool, just like instant coffee....but that is hot, I'm confused.
In other news...
[video=youtube;r8bgaLseoVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8bgaLseoVs[/video]
No, players still have to run the marathon. The difference is they don't have to run back to the starting line, grab the backpack (ship) they wanted to take in the first place, and then run the entire marathon again.
Ship transfer is a good idea.
The proposed implementation is not - to my mind - a good way to do so. It would seem to cause a number of undesirable side effects.
At the same time, the issues identified by FD appear to be legitimate
So - we need an implementation of the system that works while minimising the side effects.
For this - there is only really one way to do this. There needs to be a time delay between ordering your ship to be moved and it being delivered.
What about the issue where I want to take part in local combat but my combat ship is LYs away?
Legitimtate problem, but also - in many ways - a separate one. And as a separate problem, it can be givena separate solution.
Proposed Solution....
Ship hire.
Once at a station, you can go to a broker and simply hire a ship. Maybe there'll be a limited selection. Maybe you can outfit it just as your existing ship. Maybe you'll need to own a ship before you can rent it, or maybe the selection of ships and equipment will be limited by your exploration/trade/combat rating. You'll need insurance and maybe a deposit.
And a pen for the paperwork
Regardless, the aim is to create a method by which you can obtain a combat or trading or exploration ship for a period of time while you await your existing ship.
Which can then be transferred at a reasonable cost. It can even take a shorter period of time..such as by saying that the transport firm fits boosters or fills the cargo bay with fuel tanks or whatever.
But I think that there does need to be some significant delay alongside a reasonable currency cost.
The proposed implementation is not - to my mind - a good way to do so. It would seem to cause a number of undesirable side effects.
At the same time, the issues identified by FD appear to be legitimate
So - we need an implementation of the system that works while minimising the side effects.
For this - there is only really one way to do this. There needs to be a time delay between ordering your ship to be moved and it being delivered.
What about the issue where I want to take part in local combat but my combat ship is LYs away?
Legitimtate problem, but also - in many ways - a separate one. And as a separate problem, it can be givena separate solution.
Proposed Solution....
Ship hire.
Once at a station, you can go to a broker and simply hire a ship. Maybe there'll be a limited selection. Maybe you can outfit it just as your existing ship. Maybe you'll need to own a ship before you can rent it, or maybe the selection of ships and equipment will be limited by your exploration/trade/combat rating. You'll need insurance and maybe a deposit.
And a pen for the paperwork
Regardless, the aim is to create a method by which you can obtain a combat or trading or exploration ship for a period of time while you await your existing ship.
Which can then be transferred at a reasonable cost. It can even take a shorter period of time..such as by saying that the transport firm fits boosters or fills the cargo bay with fuel tanks or whatever.
But I think that there does need to be some significant delay alongside a reasonable currency cost.
so it takes what, like 30 min to jump from one side of the bubble to the other? Your idea of a game that suits you is one with an extra 30 min in it? your getting upset over 30 min?
i agree, instant is silly. But come on......
Common Scenario: I'm in my little home system with my 20 outfit ships that I like to regularly switch between, I see a mission to move some goods 80Ly away, I take it. I get there and see another mission to move some stuff 80 more Ly. This is the first choice, do I go another 80 Ly (putting me between 100-150Ly from home, about 10-15 minutes of pitch, press J, throttle up mindlessly) or do I just go back home and look for more missions so that I have access to all my ships?
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Another Common Scenario: Everything is the same, I'm 80Ly away and see a mission to kill pirates, but I'm in my T6 having just delivered 40 tons of something or other....I could try to buy and outfit a vulture or FAS here, I have the cash, but I'm in an Agriculture economy...I could take the mission and go back and get my FAS, and then come back (160Ly round trip)...or I could just go home and hope for another mission of that type (the BH sounds fun at the moment after all this couriering)...so it's either waste 10-15 minutes 'pitch, press J, throttle up' to get to the activity, or go home.
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Third Common Scenario: I'm in my T6 or Asp or FAS and I do some data couriering now and again (vicissitude of being raised by a postman), and I see a sweet mission at this outpost to move 150 tons of stuff 75 Ly back toward home....but I need my Python to move it, nothing else has the cargo room to do that from an outpost, let me just go get that....oh wait, the mssion will be gone, let me just order it here and when it gets here I'll take the mission....oh wait, the mission board refreshed twice and it's gone...darn.
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If you want more scenarios I've got tons, it happens all the time that it would be nice to follow a trail of missions wherever they take me, just see where I end up and do whatever comes at me along the way, but I'm in a T6 or a Python fit for trading or combat and I see a good combat or trading mission and I'm fit for the wrong one, and there is no fitting options at that station, so I've got to go hunt all that down.....in effect, invest 10-30 minutes of my gaming time in tedium to get to the activity I want to do, to play the game part of the game rather than the chore part of the game (bless you if you enjoy that stuff and good for you, but some of us don't, we're just looking for an option to avoid it).
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Or, come 2.2 I can just transfer my combat ship and have it and play the game and have fun and enjoy it! Great! "BUT STOP BACALAO, you crazy codfish!" says some of the community "That isn't immersion friendly, you need to sit there in your T6 and wait for that FAS to arrive!". "But if that's the case there isn't any point in ship ordering, I'll just go get it." I reply. "Go do other stuff while you wait." They say. "I'm in my T6...there are combat missions here, which I'd like to do, but I'm in my T6...
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So you see, I would find the maximum amount of utility for ship transfer at sub 300 Ly distances and it's only real value is if it's instantaneous.
As I see it you are describing the process of instant gratification there. Why should you have everything, everytime? For the same reason some people become compulsive buyers (better if they have the money
) in real life.But this is a game and the point games is to present us with challenges. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the "delayed" gratification when you overcome it. It is in the spirit of any good game. The real fun comes with the personal achievement of a more or less difficult goal.
And I'll give you an example. During the recent dangerous games I had been working with a cobra mk3 and for the next cg i needed more cargo capacity. I was pretty far from my home system, so I resorted to buy a T6 in situ.
I hadnt flied a T6 for ages and I liked it. After the games I kept it and i am enjoying it very much doing long range missions. It's a lovely smuggler.
In this example buying the T6 wasnt that much of a challenge, but I was happy to find a smart way to adapt to circumstances. And I found unexpected fun that I wouldnt have had if I had just summoned my python. I made discoveries and learnt a few things too
I believe that games are fun, but the good ones make you smarter
EDIT: of course my opinion is that instamagic makes ED less of a challenge, to I will always be against it
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this seems to be the thing the forum is doing. hyperbolic kneejerk whining because the forum can't get it's way.
Why dont you enjoy the python, just out of curiosity?
If compromises have been made in the past that doesnt mean more should be made, when there are maybe solutions to this if carefully implemented. FD just chose the most simple and cheap solution. Also, as I stated earlier, I believe we are at a crossroad situation with this issue, heading towards ever more arcade style of gameplay, which would open the door for other insta magic stuff easily. You say gameplay wins, but also that is a very subjective thing. What is gameplay for one might not be gameplay for someone else. I see your point, but I cant agree.
I'm ok with ship transport so long as you don't mind waiting at the finish line for the guy who's running it for you.
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