The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

[BostromNZ]

I don't want a delay, it would just be annoying and go against the point of the feature. It's a game, it's not some ultra-realistic simulation.

I have almost every ship in the game, multiples of a few, and had them based in Gende. Then I joined AA and moved to Eravate 300ly away (feels small now that I'm at Jacques). I still have 7 or 8 ships in Gende because I got really sick of flying to Gende in a disposable Hauler, swapping ships, flying back to Eravate in a low jump range combat ship, swapping into a disposable Hauler, flying back to Gende... rinse and repeat A LOT. You don't even get exploration data in the end because you've exhausted the route so much.

In regards to the delay.. why?! It's a convenience feature, quality of life. It should be as convenient as possible, that's its benefit. We don't have delays for repairs, we don't have to sit and wait for refueling, why this?

These dooms day scenarios that people are coming up with are so over the top. You still have to fly everywhere, I'm not going to bother to swap into my Asp to fly 100ly, it's so short who cares? So it takes five or six jumps in an FDL compared to three in an Asp but in my FDL I'm ready for interdictions, I can interdict other commanders running around in their taxis. Seriously, how often do you travel very far in the bubble?

If you do need to travel far to say a community goal or a favoured trade route then jump in your Asp, get there quickly, swap into your preferred ship and start having fun. Yay! Why so bad?

Lastly, people are forewarning the demise of the multi-role ship but what about mission running? What about material gathering? These are perfect for multi-role.

All inst-ship transfer does is allow you to quickly use your ships for the role that you have outfitted them for. That's why next month, my family and I will be voting for instant ship transfer, I encourage you to do the same.

 

[MrPapaGiorgiio]

Forums gonna rock when this 2.2 hits with this instant ship transfer feature.

Bet my two cents on it, shame i must wait to see the chaos.

This. And I, for one, cannot wait!

The amount of butthurt for this feature is delicious. It's not even in the game yet and these man-children are throwing tantrums.
That one guy crying about all his wasted time on the FDL is the best.

Cheers to the great MB for coming in this thread and defending this proposed feature.

For the record, ship transfer is an EXCELLENT idea. Instant? Even better. But we'll see how the beta goes.

[big grin]

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

What feature that players want do they consider low priority? It's easy to make everything a top priority when all you have to do is post adamantly on a forum about it, much different when you actually have to do something about it.

I thought Michael described this very well - as a product manager for much of my working life I related to it easily.

Ship transfer is 'just' a Quality of Life feature: it doesn't let you do something you could not do before, it just lets you do it better/faster/easier, etc. That inherently makes it lower priority than a new feature that lets you do something that you could not do before. However, when you can do a QoL feature quickly and cheaply (and instant transfer is very simple to do, whereas any form of timed transfer is more complex, in some cases much more complex), that in itself may be enough to jump it up the priorities.

Of course, users do not always agree: there are some new features (CQC, ship borne fighters, for example) that I think are a complete waste of resources, so I would prioritise those lower than pretty much all QoL features.

 

[andrak]

Why even have a transfer option.

Just make it that wherever you dock that has a ship yard the "stored ships" tab just becomes "your ships" tab.

That's basically what this feature amounts to. Your ships are now an attribute of the player that follow you around.

How pathetic.

 

[Lightspeed]

But you dont HAVE to .. thats your choice, if you choose to use your ASP then YOU are the one cutting out the gameplay not Frontier. Frontier are not forcing that option on you? Are they?

If you are going to take any sort of trip, naturally you are going to use the ship with biggest jump range (that you can manage given the type of ship), that is already happening.

I would love to see the metrics of what ship most people use, cos I bet its an ASP already.

The diversity of paint jobs are a clue to that - more paint jobs for the most popular ships, probably: Asp is behind Cobra, Eagle, Sidewinder, Viper, which is likely different from those of us commenting in this thread.

 

[sutex]

Why is everyone getting so worked up about the feature? Yes, it may be instant but no one seems to factor in possible costs. I bet moving an anaconda will cost you in the 10s of millions. Not a sum you spend several times a day.

Sums up the planet today ... fix a problem any problem ( Instant travel ) by throwing money at it, thus making the/any endeavor expensive.

while not fixing the underlining reason MONEY is needed too 'FIX' the/any issue in the first place..

 

[Ironwolf]

<snip> I'm playing this game for the flight mechanics, space-combat, and aesthetics. I don't care about the lore, the stellar forge, etc etc that many of you seem to care a great deal about. I don't care if the ships are 3D printed, teleported, or holographic. I only care about outfitting and flying the ship that I want to fly, when I want to fly it, and where I want to fly it. Everything in between is a waste of my time. <snip>

The lead designer recently said that he does not care about realism either.

I think your above statement reflects the players FDev are now aiming this game at.

 

[sutex]

Originally Posted by Jypson (Source) <snip> I'm playing this game for the flight mechanics, space-combat, and aesthetics. I don't care about the lore, the stellar forge, etc etc that many of you seem to care a great deal about. I don't care if the ships are 3D printed, teleported, or holographic. I only care about outfitting and flying the ship that I want to fly, when I want to fly it, and where I want to fly it. Everything in between is a waste of my time. <snip>

The lead designer recently said that he does not care about realism either.

I think your above statement reflects the players FDev are now aiming this game at.

The Instant popcorn crowd.... are ruling the world .. wouldn't last two minutes on a Barn building Amish day ! ..what Realism , where's the pre-fab

 

[Red Anders]

I'm sure lots of smiling kaynines (no idea) at Jack will appreciate that

I can't even begin to conceive the amount of three wise monkeys that must be going on for this not to be recognised. One thing that does crease me up is this from the text of the CG at Jaques:

A coordinated campaign to establish a permanent outpost in the region, organised by the 80 DD-D 774-CE-2 faction, is already underway, and a second is about to begin. The 80 DD-D 774-CE-2 has announced plans to establish an outpost in the Colonia Nebula, and has placed an open order for materials for use in the construction.

A spokesperson for the organisation said:

"A new beginning. A new tomorrow. That's what the Colonia Nebula represents. A chance to create an interstellar community free from the internecine conflicts that blight so much of inhabited space. with your help, we can make it happen"

No. No we can't.


Something that really creases me up about all this by the way:

I like Engineers the way they are now but I wasn't seeing the time-consuming aspects of them as being a problem even before the changes; they're an aspect of the game that I was happy to dip into as and when and gradually build up through normal gameplay.

That's apart from Felicity. I had Felicity unlocked to level 5 before I'd even visited any of the other Engineers, specifically so that I could modify my FSDs. I currently have level 5s on my Anaconda, Exploration Asp and Type 9 with level 4s on my Python and FAS. I've also got the components needed for 9 more rolls of level 5 mods and have my smuggling Asp parked up ready to go.

Next up were my combat ships. Why the hell should I bother doing them now? The FAS was a waste of time and effort already because my Anaconda jumps 49.75LY and as soon as ship transfers go live, especially if not even the cost of transfers is going to act as any kind of limiting factor, I'll probably never need to make a system jump in any of them ever again.

So 2.2 is making some aspects of 2.1 redundant already. Hell, if the ship-launched fighters are any good maybe I should just sell all of my combat ships anyway, I can stick a fighter bay in my Anaconda too and just fly that all the time.

 

[Sans Daring]

Ship transfer is 'just' a Quality of Life feature: it doesn't let you do something you could not do before, it just lets you do it better/faster/easier, etc. That inherently makes it lower priority than a new feature that lets you do something that you could not do before. However, when you can do a QoL feature quickly and cheaply (and instant transfer is very simple to do, whereas any form of timed transfer is more complex, in some cases much more complex), that in itself may be enough to jump it up the priorities.

Quality of life cannot be subject to quality of game. When one overcomes the other, when a game becomes too giving (with items like insta-transport) or too unforgiving (be it Engineers) the balance will make people unhappy. Ultimately not everyone can be happy, so again I push for a middle ground. Insta-transport with some small delay, to at least give the nod to the galaxy.

That may seem unfair if you want it instant, but given this is actually a feature which many find wrecks their game, whether you understand that or not, would seem fair reason for a compromise.

The amount of butthurt for this feature is delicious. It's not even in the game yet and these man-children are throwing tantrums.
That one guy crying about all his wasted time on the FDL is the best.
Cheers to the great MB for coming in this thread and defending this proposed feature.

I've not seen any butthurt, people speaking honestly and with informative points. It's sad when people think they take a high ground by trivilalising an issue that clearly has justification to exist, grounds that are supported in reasons, both game mechanics and "world issues". Man children isn't what I've seen, posts like this seem to err on that route. Rude and lacking empathy.

I don't want a delay, it would just be annoying and go against the point of the feature. It's a game, it's not some ultra-realistic simulation.

It is however, a simulation. The whole galaxy logistics are based as close real as they can get without being dull. Listen to Braben speak, his vision is hardly just any old "game" he wants a world you can believe in. Ships that are little more than inventory items defeats that feeling of a believable world and devalues the worthiness and identity of the fine range of spacecrafts.

In regards to the delay.. why?! It's a convenience feature, quality of life. It should be as convenient as possible, that's its benefit. We don't have delays for repairs, we don't have to sit and wait for refueling, why this?

Convienience features are fine, if the dovetail with the world. If you could refuel when you wanted, instantly, that would be very convienient. Especially for long hauls. Even with a charge. How would that feel? We scoop for fuel when not in dock - it's a reward, the reward is balanced by the time it takes to scoop and the price of the scoop. That's how convience works in games - you can make things easier but there must be a balance of price. Ship movement IS a good feature, but it needs a drawback so it doesn't become an imbalanced reward, and especially one that doesn't negate the logic of the game. This issue does both.

If you can use ships quickly as you argue, the ships become less meaningful. They become less special. Worth considering.

But ultimately I don't expect anyone here I've replied to, to agree, I'm just hoping they'll understand this isn't a silly issue, but there are serious reasons why people are against it that aren't "butthurt".

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Kinda funny when you think about it, I could fly my Cutter to any remote port in the galaxy (limited shipyard/outfitting supply) Crash half a billion credits worth of engineered Cutter whilst undocking from this      end of nowhere port, I'll instantly get supplied with a brand new fully modded Cutter.

Nobody seems to question that game mechanic, perhaps the devs should introduce insurance waiting times unless you crash a ship at a port that stock all the necessary modules and ship parts.

It's not a game mechanic. It's an out-of-game mechanic. And it is not questioned because, other than those that want iron man, some sort of resurrection is needed. But that happens out of the game, so whatever lore might be required to explain it is not really needed.

 

[Trueno33]

Why even have a transfer option.

Just make it that wherever you dock that has a ship yard the "stored ships" tab just becomes "your ships" tab.

That's basically what this feature amounts to. Your ships are now an attribute of the player that follow you around.

How pathetic.

Wow, just wow. It's exactly like that. I foresee a really lonely galaxy...

 

[Ironwolf]

It's not a game mechanic. It's an out-of-game mechanic. And it is not questioned because, other than those that want iron man, some sort of resurrection is needed. But that happens out of the game, so whatever lore might be required to explain it is not really needed.

Yeah, at the moment we are using escape capsules, supposedly.

When FDEv get round to that, it will probably end up as instant cloning.

For convenience, or course.

 

[Trueno33]

The lead designer recently said that he does not care about realism either.

I think your above statement reflects the players FDev are now aiming this game at.

Congratulations to the winners. I'll move on then

 

[K M Butler]

What about a new mode called the Galactic Intern mode, that allows for just grabbing anyship anyplace like Ed does and just having fun for those people who just want to goof about a couple hours after work? Do not have it connect to the rest of the 'verse, but in parallel, e.g. similar/same CG's etc. Yes, it would get out of sync, but people who choose convenience don't care about that sort of thing. This lets people who want the immersion and at least the illusion of believability get on with their long-distance swim without interference while the casuals splash about in the wading pool, drinking beer and playing pvp volleyball. Also has the benefit of not trading the established core customers in for a more fickle different base. (If they weren't fickle, the CQC tournament would still be a going concern.)

 

[Ironwolf]

Some of the consequences are definitely foreseen. A number of long time players are going to ragequit if this printing malarkey sees the light of day...
Why can't I just purchase an A grade module using the "internet" and have it printed at the station of choice.      travelling the bubble in search of modules. Why can't the RNGineer print my laser, mod it and me reprint it at my end and fit it in my ship? Why should I have to travel to him or her?
Why can't I go to a station when slaves sell at 5000CpT and print a load of slaves from other stations where they cost less? <snip>

CG far away. Requires lots of commodities.
Why not just print them out.

In fact commodities can be moved around easily by printing.
More cost effective in bulk.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Yeah, at the moment we are using escape capsules, supposedly.

When FDEv get round to that, it will probably end up as instant cloning.

For convenience, or course.

Yet drive around a planet surface and the place is littered with escape capsules. It seems that the only escape capsules that work are those that are on our ships. We may think that 3D printing will expose lots of inconsistencies in the back story for the Elite world, but actually FD are consistently good at creating those inconsistencies.

 

[Red Anders]

Some of the consequences are definitely foreseen. A number of long time players are going to ragequit if this printing malarkey sees the light of day...
Why can't I just purchase an A grade module using the "internet" and have it printed at the station of choice...

Well we don't know what's in 2.3 yet...

 

[Ironwolf]

Yet drive around a planet surface and the place is littered with escape capsules. It seems that the only escape capsules that work are those that are on our ships. We may think that 3D printing will expose lots of inconsistencies in the back story for the Elite world, but actually FD are consistently good at creating those inconsistencies.

The lead designer recently said that it is better to not think about how things work.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Why even have a transfer option.

Just make it that wherever you dock that has a ship yard the "stored ships" tab just becomes "your ships" tab.

That's basically what this feature amounts to. Your ships are now an attribute of the player that follow you around.

How pathetic.

Wow, I didn't think it was even remotely possible to come up with a simpler implementation.