SLF's - Pros and Cons? Safeguards?

[Dim Reaper]

Much as I am looking forward to having ship launched fighters, I am wondering if there are also going to be safeguards in place to ensure that they are not used as a griefing tool. A couple of possibilities that it would be nice to have some clarification on:

Scenario 1:
PRO: Would be great for PVP if you could both leave your original ship 1km from the station, launch a fighter and then both fly outside the no-fire zone to duel. But would the station destroy your ship as soon as you opened fire from your SLF?

CON: Could someone park their ship up near to the station where a CG is taking place, then launch a fighter and fly outside the no-fire zone to attack traders coming in. If they die, they just launch another fighter. If someone attacks their ship, the station defends it.


Scenario 2:
PRO: The SLF's would be great if you could park 7km from the station with another commander, then you both launch a SLF and race into and out of the station in the SLF's.

CON: CMDR Bulliedasachild sits 7km away from a station and launches a fighter. He takes control of the fighter, flies it into the station and uses it to block another player's landing pad. If the other player is in a ship like a T9, he could hide under it to avoid the station lasers. Possibly the lasers would hit the T9. Possibly the T9 would crush the fighter and destroy it and then get directly attacked by the station. CMDR Bulliedasachild sits in his parents' basement giggling and then launches another fighter to repeat the experience.


Scenario 3:
CON: CMDR Bulliedasachild wings up with his friends CMDR Pullsthewingsoffflies and CMDR Stealschocolatefrombabies. They each park their ships just outside the station (1km) and then fly their SLF to the docking port and the three of them block the port hoping that others players will either not be able to get through, or will destroy them and get fired on by the station.


Are any of these scenarios going to be possible? Can someone with beta access please try them during the 2.2 beta. Is there anything else good or bad that the SLF's could be used for (apart from their promary use of fighting away from stations)?

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Well done on thinking those up!

I believe the best protection would be to not allow the launching of fighters near stations, for whatever reason. I dunno though.
Maybe just flying an SLF in the no fire zone should be illegal, and get both of you shot down?
Bit harsh, but prevents Griefing.

 

[Dim Reaper]

I believe the best protection would be to not allow the launching of fighters near stations, for whatever reason. I dunno though.
Maybe just flying an SLF in the no fire zone should be illegal, and get both of you shot down?
Bit harsh, but prevents Griefing.

I could live with that. I just hope that FDev put something in place either before or during the beta.

 

[Frenotx]

Since SLFs can't dock, they really have no business being inside a station. The station should probably not allow them entry. 30 second warning, followed by termination. If a ship launches a fighter, its docking permission should be revoked / denied.

 

[shadragon]

Maybe just flying an SLF in the no fire zone should be illegal, and get both of you shot down?

Cruel, but fair. They said you couldn't dock in an SLF anyway, so this works for me.

"Lakon Delta-Romeo-Alpha, you have entered a restricted no-fly zone. Maintain more than seven kilometer distance from the station, or lethal force will be authorized. This is your only warning."

 

[Julio Montega]

Much as I am looking forward to having ship launched fighters, I am wondering if there are also going to be safeguards in place to ensure that they are not used as a griefing tool. A couple of possibilities that it would be nice to have some clarification on:

Scenario 1:
PRO: Would be great for PVP if you could both leave your original ship 1km from the station, launch a fighter and then both fly outside the no-fire zone to duel. But would the station destroy your ship as soon as you opened fire from your SLF?

CON: Could someone park their ship up near to the station where a CG is taking place, then launch a fighter and fly outside the no-fire zone to attack traders coming in. If they die, they just launch another fighter. If someone attacks their ship, the station defends it.

As i recap from the streams fighters and ship are the same CMDR,
thus they will draw fire, unless both CMDRs are in a wing and have report crime off.

Scenario 2:
PRO: The SLF's would be great if you could park 7km from the station with another commander, then you both launch a SLF and race into and out of the station in the SLF's.

CON: CMDR Bulliedasachild sits 7km away from a station and launches a fighter. He takes control of the fighter, flies it into the station and uses it to block another player's landing pad. If the other player is in a ship like a T9, he could hide under it to avoid the station lasers. Possibly the lasers would hit the T9. Possibly the T9 would crush the fighter and destroy it and then get directly attacked by the station. CMDR Bulliedasachild sits in his parents' basement giggling and then launches another fighter to repeat the experience.

Quite possible, stations need to inhibit station launch within them,
aswell as prohibit fighters passing the force field at the entrance to
counter this possible foul gameplay.

Scenario 3:
CON: CMDR Bulliedasachild wings up with his friends CMDR Pullsthewingsoffflies and CMDR Stealschocolatefrombabies. They each park their ships just outside the station (1km) and then fly their SLF to the docking port and the three of them block the port hoping that others players will either not be able to get through, or will destroy them and get fired on by the station.

If i recap correct fighters are not able to dock or land,
thus they would stay above the pad gathering infraction warnings,
and possibly have the docking CMDR take a fine for crashing,
or lead to fighter destruction because of station-patience running out.
Rest see Scenario 2.

Are any of these scenarios going to be possible? Can someone with beta access please try them during the 2.2 beta. Is there anything else good or bad that the SLF's could be used for (apart from their promary use of fighting away from stations)?

Scenario 4:
You pirate a ship in a policed system and take hits from the freighter.
After disabling the freighter (shoot pp out) you carry on to grab the cargo,
then launch a fighter as defense.

Pro:
Fighters have firepower increasing your defense.

Con:
The fighter launches default in defensive stance,
if you are hit (maybe being hit prior to launch qualifies too)
the fighter engages, possibly leading to the freighters destruction.

Setting the fighter to agressive will lead it to attack
any hostile, including the freighter.

Switching to the fighter hampers your ability to steal goods,
and your ship may aswell destroy the trader.


"There is no peace, there is piracy. Through piracy, i gain cargo. Through cargo, i gain influence.
Through influence, i gain infamy. Through infamy, my chains are broken. The bounty shall free me."

 

[CMDR-AD]

I believe the devs commentary during the videos said that if you trigger a state while using a fighter (say, becoming hostile), that both your fighter AND your main ship immediately take on the same status.

So scenario 1, your main ship is still in the no fire zone. I would presume if your fighter fires, it may count the main ship as having thus fired (since the CMDR who is shooting is actually inside that ship and the no fire zone), and the station/security attacks it.

EDIT: Julio Montega above I think has it right for pad loitering and blocking the airlock. CMDR main ship gets the same results when the station goes angry.

Good thoughts for testing in the beta.

Plus, if the fighter remote link is only like 4km max... then the main ship would always be inside the No Fire Zone to get blasted for fighter offenses.

 

[Frenotx]

I believe the devs commentary during the videos said that if you trigger a state while using a fighter (say, becoming hostile), that both your fighter AND your main ship immediately take on the same status.

So scenario 1, your main ship is still in the no fire zone. I would presume if your fighter fires, it may count the main ship as having thus fired (since the CMDR who is shooting is actually inside that ship and the no fire zone), and the station/security attacks it.

EDIT: Julio Montega above I think has it right for pad loitering and blocking the airlock. CMDR main ship gets the same results when the station goes angry.

Good thoughts for testing in the beta.

Plus, if the fighter remote link is only like 4km max... then the main ship would always be inside the No Fire Zone to get blasted for fighter offenses.

I hope the link is a heck of lot further than 4km. It would be extremely easy to inadvertently range-out, if that were the max.

 

[Dim Reaper]

Plus, if the fighter remote link is only like 4km max... then the main ship would always be inside the No Fire Zone to get blasted for fighter offenses.

I hope the link is a heck of lot further than 4km. It would be extremely easy to inadvertently range-out, if that were the max.

Does anyone know if the range was mentioned in the livestreams? I don't remember hearing it, but I was reading at the same time as watching them. In combat it's easy to move more than 4km away from where you started, especially if an NPC runs.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Does anyone know if the range was mentioned in the livestreams? I don't remember hearing it, but I was reading at the same time as watching them. In combat it's easy to move more than 4km away from where you started, especially if an NPC runs.

No specific range was mentioned. Sandro said it would be pretty far but it would be limited. Not his exact words but that was the gist of it.

 

[CMDR-AD]

Even with a limited range, it will still be somewhat flexible. If my NPC crew pilots my ship to chase me in the fighter, the range will essentially be infinite.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Even with a limited range, it will still be somewhat flexible. If my NPC crew pilots my ship to chase me in the fighter, the range will essentially be infinite.

I wonder what happens if you need to high wake? Do you just lose the fighter or do you have to dock before you can high wake?

 

[S'Rau]

Safeguard ? Introduce flak turrets !

 

[Julio Montega]

No specific range was mentioned. Sandro said it would be pretty far but it would be limited. Not his exact words but that was the gist of it.

Even with a limited range, it will still be somewhat flexible. If my NPC crew pilots my ship to chase me in the fighter, the range will essentially be infinite.

I think the limit will be a limit we already know: 10km
Anything further will despawn anyway (NPC wise).

I wonder if using a fighter impacts signature and scan resolution,
like the launching ship is a clear contact within those limits,
to represent the ongoing data stream for that "telepresence".

Safeguard ? Introduce flak turrets !

Like the frag cannon mod double-shot or anti-ordinance mod(can't remember that name)?

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Now that I think about it, I also wonder what happens when your SLF goes out of range? Is it permanently lost, can you fly to it and regain a lock and control, what will it look like to the pilot when telepresence is lost, is it gradual or immediate, can you launch a new SLF if you've lost the connection to the 1st one?

Yes, that's a lot of questions!

 

[Julio Montega]

Now that I think about it, I also wonder what happens when your SLF goes out of range? Is it permanently lost, can you fly to it and regain a lock and control, what will it look like to the pilot when telepresence is lost, is it gradual or immediate, can you launch a new SLF if you've lost the connection to the 1st one?

Yes, that's a lot of questions!

Is that even possible with the NPC overtaking the main ship?
I guess they will follow, as the speed of the SLFs can not be modded
it will be hard to fly out of range, if the SLF power dist. is anything
like the CQC version.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Very interesting observations.

If any of these will be possible without endangering the own Ship, these techniques will likely be used.

Other typical Scenario :
- What's the max. Range between a Fighter and a "parked" Ship? Gotta be quite a bit.
-> Players will have i.e. their Keelback parked 250m above the surface on Planets or 10km+ from Stations "ice-cold" and launch their Fighter
-> either to force collisions with an Engineer Base traffic or try to Gank them risk-free, same i.e. for CG Stations etc.
(Fighters are re-printable anyway, making them throwaway toys)

Only if the base Ship is tied to the deployed Fighter and Security Response marks both as offenders (sending separate Forces to deal with both), this can be limited to a degree.
Still, with a cold "Carrier" Ship deployed far away, Fighters will permit actions without really endangering the Base Ship if above Factors aren't taken into account.

I'm 100% sure Players will attempt to Explore and Exploit those Options.

 

[S'Rau]

Like the frag cannon mod double-shot or anti-ordinance mod(can't remember that name)?

Screening shield i think ? Never tried it but i was thinking of a BSG like flak shield for big ships.
They could simply tweak point defence systems already in game to do the job as short range gatling guns like the modern day Phalanx.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Is that even possible with the NPC overtaking the main ship?
I guess they will follow, as the speed of the SLFs can not be modded
it will be hard to fly out of range, if the SLF power dist. is anything
like the CQC version.

Sandro did mention losing lock with the SLF when asked about range during the Lave Radio Q&A. I think they know it's a concern. I would expect if you launch a SLF with your NPC pilot and have it attack the pirate or interdictor and you head in the opposite direction they might get out of sensor range. Hopefully telepresence range is greater than the main ship sensor range

 

[Julio Montega]

Screening shield i think ? Never tried it but i was thinking of a BSG like flak shield for big ships.
They could simply tweak point defence systems already in game to do the job as short range gatling guns like the modern day Phalanx.

You wish for them to revert point defense to Premium beta uses,
where an anaconda with PDFs simply was a gunstar opening fire
on any nearby ships dishing out additional damage.

I liked that, but it was removed...