I always thought SC would be the ones to dominate the market, since they had the funds and "backers" to make it happen. However the longer SC takes to get a released product out to the market the less likely that is to happen. I am also very intrigued by the IP's FD are building alongside ED and how they could use them to supplement ED in future seasons. Planet coaster brings some really interesting crowd modelling and building construction; if you look at some of the objects people have built, it's very easy to imagine what could be done with some space themed components. If the current speculation about a Zoo tycoon equivalent being next, that could provide the wild animals that DB has talked about big game hunting.
Why I think Elite Dangerous is going to dominate the Space MMO/Space Sim genre
- Thread starter Muzz UK
- Start date
Originally I would have preferred it if ELITE had been more developed before release (more like STAR CITIZEN) but I'd have been wrong to think that. ELITE's drip feed of features with loads of feedback and moaning may be the correct model after all, giving you something pretty solid and very stable from the off.
"Untrue gamer"? I don't know if you're trolling now... There's no such thing as a "true gamer".
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Sorry but thats is your christmas elf talking, SC are way behind in many ways compared to ED, what they got are only the FPS and ED will catch up before SC even hit the golden releash.
let me predict that when ED implement the spaceleg addition, the sales will sky rocket, unless they screw it up, that is also a possibility
Hmm I dunno... Yes they're way behind schedule, but the things they currently have is pretty fantastic. It's important though to understand that SC is alpha, and ED is a released product. I sure hope it's not my Christmas elf talking to me about Star Citizen.
I like how ED always draws me back to its universe but I hate it when the game pushes me away shortly after I started playing again. This is, hopefully, where SC will appeal to me a whole lot more.
I hope.
It's alpha. Not released.
Alpha.
Alpha.
Its player base should be regarded as backers/alpha testers.
Alpha...
I'm waiting for beta at least before pledging.
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I think the problem with the "It's alpha" comment is that more than once they've delayed releases under the claims of polishing the content and then it comes out bugged to high heaven anyway. Admittedly, they do seem a bit better with the PU stuff.
Yes but they are trying to do everything at the same time. It's bound to come with bugs. Edit: I also don't think CryEngine was the ideal choice. UE4 would probably be better but it wasn't as complete as it is today.
ED is doing things in the opposite way. And it's bound to feel underdeveloped. Like CQC. I don't want to sound like I'm moaning though. I think a developing plan that lies somewhere in between SCs and EDs plans would be perfect.
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I agree with the OP. ED is the Space Sim leader together with EvE Online and will continue to be.
Star Citizen is a "reality"show, Amway show, and is not threat to nobody because their project is .
They are just good to cause disappointment and lead those disappointed to ED and other similars. They also are good as a market research, just to see how people reacts to this or that new feature or how the press react, since they present features that are just dreams in their design/tech, but that can be actually feasible to be done in similar or better form, in the ED design/tech.
Star Citizen is a "reality"show, Amway show, and is not threat to nobody because their project is .
They are just good to cause disappointment and lead those disappointed to ED and other similars. They also are good as a market research, just to see how people reacts to this or that new feature or how the press react, since they present features that are just dreams in their design/tech, but that can be actually feasible to be done in similar or better form, in the ED design/tech.
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Alpha
See alpha is not an excuse for broken junky code. Its an asterisk that you say after you point out a bug or bad feature, its the expectation that over time this could get fixed or worked on. It does not mean it will be fixed or that it will get better, just a hope that it could. What it does not due is excuse broken junky code, that was created by the developers, this stuff still happens and still reflects the quality of the work created. Now when you have been in alpha as long as SC has and many of the bugs and broken code has been around for YEARS, you lose the expectation that it will be fixed. After all just because its an "alpha" does not mean that it will get better, as CIG have proven, it could even get worse.
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Actually, while being at an alpha stage, anything could happen. And it will happen.
"Junky code"? How would you know?
I mean how do *you* know the code is junk?
Give them time. Isn't that what everyone is saying to the ED players? Give it some time. If it won't get any better when it enters beta, go get refund.
It's still in alpha.
Actually, while being at an alpha stage, anything could happen. And it will happen.
"Junky code"? How would you know?
I mean how do *you* know the code is junk?
Give them time. Isn't that what everyone is saying to the ED players? Give it some time. If it won't get any better when it enters beta, go get refund.
It's still in alpha.
Simple I played it. Its junk. Try it some time.
Big difference between ED and SC, ED was very polished through out its developmental release, along with its launch and after. SC on the other hand has been junk from the start. We have given it time, in fact its 2 years past its original release date, putting it at 5 years total. Considering it was supposed to only take 3 years total and even finish faster with more money, I think people have given it lots of time. Then there is the lack of progress for those 5 years, just look at what little CIG have managed to do in that amount of time. Its no wonder CIG have to make a big deal of saving player states (they still can't add actual persistence), for their skill level it had to have been like climbing Everest.
Makes little difference if its alpha, its junk. Only thing calling it alpha is trying to do is make excuses for CIG's ineptitude, it is a sad situation that CIG have put them selves in.
Oh right its actually a pre-alpha, right from CIG.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13432-Letter-From-The-Chairman-On-Dogfighting
Funny how CIG are still calling it a pre-alpha after 2 years, and now CIG and all its fans want people to give them a pass.
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Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
I've played it too. It's fun. Lots of potential. Lots of work to be done too of course. Its cool. So there.
Actually it is an Excuse for just that lol.
Because unlike a Beta Test. An Alpha means that you are running with Unfinished and Improvised Codes which are Bound to be extremely Bugged and Wonky. Because you are often entirely Missing certain Codes and Features or are Simulating certain Features with an Improvised Code which is far from what it actually planned to be in the Game.
As such in an Alpha you should heed to Warning Devs write onto it. About this being an Alpha and in no Way Representing the Finished Game.
Alpha Tests are used to Get Data for Specific Game Situations and to Find and Fix really really Big Issues Faster than you would be able to track them down by Purely Internal Testing.
In an Beta is no Excuse on that. Because an Beta Generally means an Playable Test of the Game to Stamp out Final Errors. Which means Generally the Code is already what will be used later and which should only receive small changes to Stamp out the Final Edges and make Final Improvements.
So that Picture goes right back at you.
I dont think you have any Idea of Programming or what Alpha Means.
It would be nice if you would refrain from calling peoples Names and attempting to Explain them the Meaning of things you have no Idea about.
Greetz
Back to Topic.
As for the actual Topic I said it before.
But wether or not Elite Dangerous or Star Citizen will Dominate this Genre.
Depends Heavily on how much Work Elite Dangerous gets Done before Star Citizen starts to live up to Peoples Expectations.
Star Citizen shows a Steady and Clear Progress. Which means People are unlikely to lose Interest even after Bigger Setbacks and long Delays.
Because believe it or not.
Playerbase is often much more Tolerant towards Failure than People think. As long as they see that the Devs are Trying Hard and are going forward that is.
Elite Dangerous has an Tremendous Potential just like Star Citizen.
But the Biggest Problem of Elite Dangerous is that you see too minimal and too small Progress.
And even Bigger than that is that Elite Dangerous is very Vague in what their Ambitions are.
With 4 Billion Stars ED for example would have more than enough Space to allow Player Assets like Stations. But there is absolutely no Movement there.
ED currently Limits itself to an Rail Shooter Level. Because it Forces the Player to Remain on the Lowest lvl of the Society being an Single Simple Pilot with no Options to go beyond this Point.
You can Create an Minor Faction but you cant even Join it.
Its this much too small Scope which is Currently EDs Biggest Enemy.
ED has such an Insane Potential. But right now they are trying too hard to remain small. Taking an Absolute Zero Risk Policy costs them alot of Popularity.
Meanwhile Star Citizen is going an Full Risk Policy TRYING to Make all Wishes True.
And while I doubt that Star Citizen will be able to Hold all Promises they make. You can easily see who is going to Deliver more in the End if things Continue to go like they are going now.
Because Star Citizen having Promised 100% of what People want even if in the End they are only Delivering just as much as 40% Will still realize much more Potential than Elite Dangerous which is Promising 10% and Keeping 10% of what People want.
If ED wants to Compete. They have to Increase their Scope.
They do have the Potential for this. They could Increase this Game towards an lvl Beyond even Eve Online if they wanted.
If they however Continue with the Minimalistic Tradition of the Elite Series keeping the Player down to the Rank and File Position of an Pilot Forever. With no Options to own Assets beyond Fighters. And no Options to Command anything Bigger than a Corvette.
I can already Guarantee you that Star Citizen will Crush it without even noticing it under its Feet.
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I've played it too. It's fun. Lots of potential. Lots of work to be done too of course. Its cool. So there.
Well you are a self proclaimed "fan of CIG".
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Incorrect. Again, just because it might not represent the final code, does not mean it will change. Nor is it an excuse for junk code. Its exactly what I said it was.
But perhaps you should take your own advice? Funny how I didn't call any one a name. Odd that you would make that up, I wonder why.
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Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Well you are a self proclaimed "fan of CIG".
True.
Although I hope I'm a realistic one. If they screw up I won't be an apologist. Time will tell.True.
So you are saying that have not screwed up? Not with star marine? Arena Commander? the launch of the PU? All the ships they have had to redo? You have said you are willing to wait for 99 years and that you didn't care if they release anything.
Well you are a self proclaimed "fan of CIG".
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Incorrect. Again, just because it might not represent the final code, does not mean it will change. Nor is it an excuse for junk code. Its exactly what I said it was.
But perhaps you should take your own advice? Funny how I didn't call any one a name. Odd that you would make that up, I wonder why.
Sorry Mate. But you very Obviously have no Idea of Programming.
I suggest taking a few attempts at Modding. Than maybe you will Realize that what your claiming there is complete Rubbish and would basicly mean that you would not do any Testing before Beta Test. Which usually Ends in Catastropic Bugfests.
I.ll give ya the comment aspiring Programmers and Developers often get told.
Alpha Testing cannot be done Early enough when Developing a Game.
For a Racing Game an Alpha Test with an small Testing Group can be as Simple as 2 Square Blocks with Minimal Collision Mechanics and not even any Graphical Overlay Racing against each other.
Because that alone can already give you valuable Data as to what your Players might find annoying.
Alpha Tests are Generally something you do when not even 50% of your Game is Finished.
The Early Hangar View of Star Citizen is an Prime example of this. You had pretty much no Functionality. You could only walk around your Hangar.
But this Alpha Test was already Incredible Valuable to Star Citizen Development. Because the Players could just from that already see the Rough Mechanics and Outlay of FPS Mechanics and Scale. And thus the Devs could get an Idea of the Direction they were going was Right or should be Changed.
See Mate.
The Difference between Alpha and Beta test is.
That in an Alpha Test the user Feedback might actually lead to the Devs entirely Abandoning and Redoing an certain Code and doing an really Drastic Change to their Development.
In an Beta Test however you have most of your Systems Finished. You wont do any Drastic Changes unless you really up Epic. Because the Purpose of the Beta Test. Is to check the Finished System and Stamp out Final Bugs from these Systems. Not change the Systems themselves.
Star Citizen is Running an Limited Alpha Test.
They are Checking which Direction their Systems should Go.
And not only are alot of their Codes Improvised to allow the Systems they want to Test to even work.
But entire Parts are not even Existing.
For example the Final Game is Supposed to be an Permanent World in which you Traverse.
But right now these Connection Parts are not there. You are instead moving around between Single Parts of a World. Because the Intersections dont Exist.
Because I hate Block Text and get Headaches when I dont have alot of Space between single Text Lines.
Wrong again, I code every day.
Funny I never said you would not do testing before a beta, that was something you made up.
No one is talking about how much of the game is finished. Funny how the hangar still has major bugs from its very first release. So what you are implying is that CIG have no internal testing and as such have to have the players test to see if they fall through the floor. Then CIG don't bother to read those bug logs from the player. Interesting.
Yes and if those 2 Square Blocks fall through the floor at the starting line? Then what? See you are confusing a number of aspects. No one is saying that an alpha is not to text aspects of the code, or that it would contain full features, two things you made up. Although most of the time that is done as internal testing, there is no reason to put that out on the players, after all they are to find major balance and major bugs, and major mechanics failures (like adding super cruse for ED), not design your game for you. Or do you think CIG are so inept that they didn't have a design doc? And instead are just winging it?
See when I create a user interface I create a user interface how I want that user interface to work. I lay out a design work on that design, test see what works and then what does not work. But all this is internal (or in house), then when I have something that works that is in line with what I wanted to build (might not have all the graphics or be finished) I had it over to a 3rd party user (or outside alpha, tester), they give it a go, perhaps try things I never expected, perhaps they hate how part of the layout works. I think take that feedback and fix the bugs and perhaps change the layout if I think their input had weight. What I don't do is throw out broken code, and then ignore any feed back. For example what was the point of putting out code that would crash the game in 5min? Are you telling me CIG never bothered to test their own code? What do you think players could tell them, yes the code crash in 5 min...ah.
You seem to be focused on Beta for some reason, what we are talking about is the players use of the word alpha in order to excuse any problems that show up then continue to do so for years. What you don't seem to grasp is that the expectation is that it gets better, not that it breaks more on every iteration. Bugs are supposed to be fixed, progress is supposed to be made. Alpha is not an excuse for not fixing your code, it is not an excuse for having code that does not work (that should never have left internal testing). Using your own example again, you can't test Two Square blocks when they just slam into wall on every turn.
Confusing internal testing with a public alpha is not that uncommon from someone that does not produce code. You should really try it, it will open your mind.
It should be really worrying for you to think that CIG have no idea what they are doing and are relying on the Players to tell them how mechanics should work. Don't you think the Dev's should have an idea how they want the game to play like?
Another aspect that you are twisting together is the difference between mechanics and functionality. Most of what you said was talking about testing mechanics, again something that does not really apply to CIG as it has next to no mechanics. But how do you test mechanics when it does not function? What is the point of having player test those two blocks if those two blocks don't move? What is the point if they don't turn? You are talking about testing mechanics, yet the excuses for alpha are the functionality of the code, not the lack of mechanics.
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