Combat logging, reasons why its happening and solution

[Judz]

I wish I get all my chaff, heat sinks, missle ammo and replenish my hull whenever someone combat logs. Because the fight never really occurred if they log out. Saves me a trip back to station atleast.

In the video that was posted you clearly state that they should exit the game to the main menu and go to SOLO play. So the next time they do exactly that you have no right whatsoever to want your ship and ammo sorted out.

I have avoided Open since I upgraded to windows 10 and have had 2.1 running as I don't want to be accused of Combat Logging, I have been interdicted before and my PC Reboots. Its quite a significant problem as it happens quite a bit when I Boost, in fact the first time it happened it was near to an Icy Ring. Now its quite regular, I could be interdicted by a CMDR and go to Boost and its already started the reboot process. In fact its happened when I was interdicted by NPC Anaconda's wanting my precious cargo (a few Mission Rewards) and the screen went blank, 1 of my cards fans ramps up to max, meanwhile I'm under attack, the Shields go, Hull damage kicks in then its rebooting. As soon as I know whether its a card, my PSU or a driver/Windows 10 problem I will try and avoid Open at all costs. Although I helped one of G.F's fellow members to do some undermining the other day..and that was a blast.

 

[GluttonyFang]

The cargo persistence bug is pretty widespread at the moment, have you not encountered it?

I have, been reporting it.

 

[Roybe]

Well I understand it, can't speak for everyone though.

Not trying to paint with a broad brush...just saying there is a difference in how a person feels between both situations. And how the whole of PvP is actually a negative feedback loop, by design.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Well I understand it, can't speak for everyone though.

How about this for a convoluted, not in a million years solution...

Have a separate Pirate galactic power that offers a special weapon that can pop cargo hatches, but can not actually blow up a ship. You actually have to gain at least minimal rep with the power to unlock that weapon...so basically you have to prove you are a respectable pirate to actually become one. Then let players set a general damage threshold, and the special pirate weapon does not apply their, so that way, true pirates can pirate with their pirate weapon, and thugs who call themselves pirates using regular weapons can't gank and grief.

 

[nathdixon92]

While I can sympathise with the OP and agree that connection issues and real life issues exist, the number of times I've interdicted and opened fire in someone for them to then log shows that people just don't want a rebuy. I've been interdicted and opened fire on myself, when I returned fire, the idiot logged himself.

 

[SkipRat]

Honestly I think that Elite Dangerous is played by the majority of PvE players and >35 age. And as most of the time you can trade, explore and have fun with NPC's in open mode without anything bad is happening. But sometime some bad and vicious PvP player will cross your game path and you die so quickly that it is feels so unfair. But this is a part of the open game play. And currently the combad logging is just totally accepted when you fight NPC's but of course also real players.

Actually that is wrong. Most people who are over 35 want pvp, but FD have implement so really poor gaming mechanic, given no love to pirating as of yet, kill people with zero consequence. PVP needs to fit in context of the game, if you want to go around and slaughter people fine, do that, just don't expect to live very long, don't expect to get access to the best trade roots and equipment as you are not, you are going to be shunned by the rest of civilisation for being the scum you are. Restricted to pirate outposts on the rim....


But no, FD have zero depth in the game and have a thing about being overly lovely to everyone and too scared to implement real consequences so the game moves from one disaster to the next...

Next CQC will be free.... Oh wait it is...

 

[nathdixon92]

As others have rightly said, being in open is an agreement that you may encounter players with lower morals than your own. Fight or run. Don't log.

 

[Lateralus]

Wouldn't a good pirate target the cargo hatch, and have the weapons to do so? Hatch Breaker Limpets? The victim really can't control that, so refusing and taking the damage...well, there is a good chance they are going to get their cargo hatch popped anyway, and regardless...the repair bill would likely be larger than the lost cargo if they are in a big ship...

They could still lose their cargo even without a rebuy so negotiation might still be an option because if the pirate kills them they might get no cargo at all.

These arguments don't really justify the removal of player-killing from the game, it would alter open in a very detrimental way - why should an NPC be able to kill a player and not another player for example?

Piracy is already tough enough (especially with the recent security upgrades) - the last thing we need is a bunch of smug, invincible traders throwing salt at us in the chat window.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

"This will give traders more time to .." Combat Log!

 

[Roybe]

Actually that is wrong. Most people who are over 35 want pvp, but FD have implement so really poor gaming mechanic, given no love to pirating as of yet, kill people with zero consequence. PVP needs to fit in context of the game, if you want to go around and slaughter people fine, do that, just don't expect to live very long, don't expect to get access to the best trade roots and equipment as you are not, you are going to be shunned by the rest of civilisation for being the scum you are. Restricted to pirate outposts on the rim....


But no, FD have zero depth in the game and the thing about being overly lovely to every and to scared to implement real consequences so the game moves from one disaster to the next...

Next CQC will be free.... Oh wait it is...

Not sure I can agree with the idea that +35 want PvP more than others...but setting that to the side...the game is really about indirect PvP...since the design of direct PvP means that win or lose, grinding out PvE content is the only way to afford the activity. The devs designed PvP to be extremely detrimental to the loser....and honestly, detrimental to the winner, as well. In short, they did not desire PvP to be common at all...and designed the game to split the community into a few players in Open and everyone else playing in small groups and solo.

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As others have rightly said, being in open is an agreement that you may encounter players with lower morals than your own. Fight or run. Don't log.

Until the devs state that a 'graceful exit' is considered combat logging...and punishable, you are tilting at windmills.

 

[SkipRat]

How about this for a convoluted, not in a million years solution...

Have a separate Pirate galactic power that offers a special weapon that can pop cargo hatches, but can not actually blow up a ship. You actually have to gain at least minimal rep with the power to unlock that weapon...so basically you have to prove you are a respectable pirate to actually become one. Then let players set a general damage threshold, and the special pirate weapon does not apply their, so that way, true pirates can pirate with their pirate weapon, and thugs who call themselves pirates using regular weapons can't gank and grief.

Wont help anything its all about mechanics of the game and that simple truth is, those mechanics are not there. And they wont put the mechanics in because the have this idea people should be able to do what they want with no consequences for the actions.

I have already asked if they are going to stop those ranking in the Empire, from Ranking in the Federation. I mean considering the animosity between the two factions, it's like the vice president of america becoming the vice president of Russia at the same time. It is not going to happen, but in FD's it perfectly okay, as their is not consequences and be should be able to do it... Despite it taking a huge aspect of the game and the choices a player makes with in it.

It is not elite dangerous: It is elite: wrap everything in cotten wool.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

These arguments don't really justify the removal of player-killing from the game, it would alter open in a very detrimental way - why should an NPC be able to kill a player and not another player for example?

Piracy is already tough enough (especially with the recent security upgrades) - the last thing we need is a bunch of smug, invincible traders throwing salt at us in the chat window.

I'm not sure a player should be able to kill another player just for the lol's if the other players does not want to get killed for the lol's.

No doubt, this is a very fine balancing act that gets both sides really worked up. I do think the best solution would be an Open PvP with a warning upon entering, and huge persistent timers, and an Open PvE where player initiated damage does not register against other players.

 

[SkipRat]

Not sure I can agree with the idea that +35 want PvP more than others...but setting that to the side...the game is really about indirect PvP...since the design of direct PvP means that win or lose, grinding out PvE content is the only way to afford the activity. The devs designed PvP to be extremely detrimental to the loser....and honestly, detrimental to the winner, as well. In short, they did not desire PvP to be common at all...and designed the game to split the community into a few players in Open and everyone else playing in small groups and solo.

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Until the devs state that a 'graceful exit' is considered combat logging...and punishable, you are tilting at windmills.

Sorry, but i 35+ and play with people over 100+ who are mainly 35+, and every single one us are for PVP, we just want the correct mechanics to the game. The correct crime and punishment...

The problem is the younger instant gratification generation (The millennials) that want god ships, no consequences to choices they make and think they are more important than everyone else, instant ship transfer because 5 jumps is to much hard work for them, so they must have game breaking mechanics to justify their laziness...

That is the problem... I want to kill people, with no consequences, because it's my right yadda yadda, woffle woffle... their arguments go on, then they cry like babies because no one want to play with them in open.

So don't go blaming the older generation. We grew up rocket jumping lava pits in quake, long before most the instant gratification generation was born.

[video=youtube;W1ZtBCpo0eU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU[/video]

This sums exactly what is happening with gaming today, and FD are falling into the same trap so the arrogance of your post to blame the older generations, is astounding.

 

[CMDR-AD]

From what I see watching YouTube, it would appear that it's not uncommon for combat focused ships to kill an interdicted ship in under 10 seconds?

Like that video above, a Vulture. From the first shot on the fully shielded Vulture to destruction was 5 seconds. Guided missiles, plasmas, and maybe ramming.

Against a Lakon, would it even take as long as 5 seconds?

To any player who knows that destruction can occur nearly instantly once interdicted, it would seem easy to guess why some would choose logging. Simply because it's faster than playing actual game mechanics to survive? Why waste any time doing any sort of in-game defensive play, when it's there isn't enough time for it do be worth anything?

Unless I misinterpret what I am seeing. I just don't see how very much meaningful gameplay can happen in 5 to 10 seconds. And it would certainly seem that ultra-fast kills have little value to pirates, right? There is no cargo to be had in the debris field?

 

[nathdixon92]

Sorry, but i 35+ and play with people over 100+ who are mainly 35+, and every single one us are for PVP, we just want the correct mechanics to the game.

The problem is the younger instant gratification generation (The millennials) that want god ships, no consequences to choices they make and think they are more important than everyone else, instant ship transfer because 5 jumps is to much hard work for them, so they must have game breaking mechanics to justify their laziness...

That is the problem... I want to kill people, with no consequences, because it's my right yadda yadda, woffle woffle...

Trouble is, the galaxy is a big place and system x might not want to share intelligence with system y. If someone as report crimes on, the security services are there very quickly.

Short of having a GTA style wanted level, there's not an awful lot to go for consequence for the reason stated above.

 

[Jypson]

In my eye's there is only one way to fix combat-logging (ie. logging out of the game ungracefully as they put it), and that's solely in FDev's hands.

The current P2P infrastructure doesn't permit leaving a ship in the game when a CMDR logs, so let's drop that line of reasoning right off the bat.

What FDev can do though, if they are so inclined anyways, is banning from Open mode. Be it a 3 strikes and you're out policy, or a 7 day ban per offense, completely up to FDev to implement and enforce.

I would say though, that I would focus on actual Crime and Punishment (C&P) enhancements first as I have a sneaky suspicion that the 'well has been poisoned' so to speak by murder-hobos and we need to address proper C&P before starting to hand out bans.

My 2 cents anywho, and full disclosure, I've been a Solo player since day 1, so I've never experienced the grief one way or the other.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

I'm not sure a player should be able to kill another player just for the lol's if the other players does not want to get killed for the lol's.

No doubt, this is a very fine balancing act that gets both sides really worked up. I do think the best solution would be an Open PvP with a warning upon entering, and huge persistent timers, and an Open PvE where player initiated damage does not register against other players.

There's already two other modes to accommodate pilots who don't want to get killed by players. It would make more sense just to add a warning to open and actually punish combat loggers.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Sorry, but i 35+ and play with people over 100+ who are mainly 35+, and every single one us are for PVP, we just want the correct mechanics to the game.

The problem is the younger instant gratification generation (The millennials) that want god ships, no consequences to choices they make and think they are more important than everyone else, instant ship transfer because 5 jumps is to much hard work for them, so they must have game breaking mechanics to justify their laziness...

That is the problem... I want to kill people, with no consequences, because it's my right yadda yadda, woffle woffle...

Some of us have careers, families, and lives. We just want to play the game that we paid for, Elite Dangerous. We arent interested in playing Elite Space Ship Transporter.

Instant ship transport is a breath of fresh air. Sometimes making 20 jumps just so I can race around in my Courier is such a pain that I am tempted to outsource it to someone in a 3rd world country. Most of the time I would rather log off than spend 20 minutes jumping just to have 20 minutes of fun

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Trouble is, the galaxy is a big place and system x might not want to share intelligence with system y. If someone as report crimes on, the security services are there very quickly.

Short of having a GTA style wanted level, there's not an awful lot to go for consequence for the reason stated above.

Ganker blows up a Clean player in a non Anarchy system...Galaxy wide bounty equal to the value of the ship the Ganker is flying...that way, if you want to pirate, be very careful when doing it.

 

[SkipRat]

Ganker blows up a Clean player in a non Anarchy system...Galaxy wide bounty equal to the value of the ship the Ganker is flying...that way, if you want to pirate, be very careful when doing it.

Nope can't do that as gankers mate will claim the bounty...