Yes, but the delay is being talked about as a realism or immersion factor.
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- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
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Yes, but the delay is being talked about as a realism or immersion factor.
I've masde a calc about it but not with mass but price:
it would go more or less like this:
(Ship price * 0,0001) * Distance oif travel * ( LYfactor / LY jump range)
In case LYfactor would be a ""bar for the value"
I mean by this a 100M ship with a 20 Ly jump can pay for a 100 Ly travel, 6.5M , While the same ship with a 7 Ly Range would pay 18.5M...
I'd be fine with it when and if we get walking
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Are you sure ? I don't know about how the game code is structured. But, you already have the values in game, you have the ship mass, and you have how many light years away from a position you are. All you gotta do is to multiply the ship mass by the distance on delivered throught the route planner algorithm (which already gives you the correct distance from point A to B) and it gives you the time delay in seconds
timeDelay = playerShipMass * distance;
simple math and it isn't hard to implement once you already have both values(I've done something like that in one of my games
I responded to you earlier and used your calculation to come to a 4.43 year delay to get a heavy Corvette 65,000 ly. Whilst the immersion in me goes "sweet" .. the gamer is going "no way."
Could you expand on that calculation? The output is in what, seconds? How do you convert n! to a time?
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For me instant transfer removes a lot of gameplay possibilities from ED.
Moving ship around may not sound like fun, but... actually flying ship is one of the most fun activities in ED, need to move ships around manually is a good reason to do that...
IMO transfer should be ~2x slower than flying ship manually based on number of jumps/available scooping rate or number of refuels needed. It will still allow one to transfer ship without all the jumping and do something in current ship while it happens, but will make it non-viable as fast travel mechanic (fly to destination in long range explorer, transfer your combat ship there).
Moving ship around may not sound like fun, but... actually flying ship is one of the most fun activities in ED, need to move ships around manually is a good reason to do that...
IMO transfer should be ~2x slower than flying ship manually based on number of jumps/available scooping rate or number of refuels needed. It will still allow one to transfer ship without all the jumping and do something in current ship while it happens, but will make it non-viable as fast travel mechanic (fly to destination in long range explorer, transfer your combat ship there).
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I am highly entertained by reading people's logic, justifying a mode of transport, in a game based on science fiction.............. Supercruise FTL, ok; make a "frame shift drive" jump 10-20Ly, sure; Jacques Space Station jumps 22000Ly, no problem; my Python shows up right after I order it...... wait, what?!
Supercruise FTL, ok; make a "frame shift drive" jump 10-20Ly, sure; Jacques Space Station jumps 22000Ly, no problem; my Python shows up right after I order it...... wait, what?! This makes no sense. Why would you pack a space ship (that can fly through space) onto a bulk freighter to fly it through space at greater cost and a slower speed? That's not how real-life airplanes are transported, and it makes no sense to do it that way in Elite unless you're just trying to add a contrived inconvenience factor for gameplay balancing.
I assume we will be able to continue to play in our current ship while we wait for the ship to arrive. If there was game play walking around the station and something to do while waiting for cargo to load I would be fine with it.
Emmmm no. That's how lot of airplanes and ships getting transported.
Let me be very clear on this from the onset... I am not for it if it means I have to sit looking at a screen for any period of time.
Assuming we have station walking and activities to par-take of in said station, I would happily sit at a cantina and watch the flow of ship traffic in the station as down below a crew loads cargo onto my ship. If it takes an hour, it takes an hour and I get an hour to do whatever I want in the station....
Bar?
Gambling?
Ship browsing?
Ship customisation browsing?
Hand weapon shop?
Pilot suit shop?
Pilot off-duty clothes shop?
Player apartments?
Player hangers?
If I have the options available .. I can and I will have the time of my life.
Most of which will happen between sessions, transit wise. That's fine, but does make the immersion factor sound a little odd when things are happening in the background, so one isn't experiencing that.
Timeshifted outcomes tend to cause people to disengage and do other things. I'm not sure this is the miracle cure everyone assumes it is. But it'll be evident soon enough if people start complaining about ships being stuck in transit, ending up at a station a commander was at 3 hours ago (and had since move on) and so on.
I am hoping that the pair of them meant: Time = (distance / FSD drive jump range of ship in question) * Fudge-game-play-factor
That way your 40LY ship is quicker than your 10LY, but doesn't take that long that your drop dead from boredom
Why do companies load cars onto trucks and haul them off to dealerships? I mean .. the cars can drive on the road.
Two choices I see as immersion keeping within the game would be.
Timed delivery needs no explanation as it's logical.
Instant or near as BUT it relies on destination station resources, ie if the station doesn't have the materials then it can't quickly drum up a ship for you. This would feed into the trading aspect of the game, and costs would fluctuate with current market supply and demand.
The arguments based on telling others not to use instant if they don't like it, really miss the point of an mmo, every action has an effect on every player in some way whether they choose to ignore that fact doesn't stop it happening.
Timed delivery needs no explanation as it's logical.
Instant or near as BUT it relies on destination station resources, ie if the station doesn't have the materials then it can't quickly drum up a ship for you. This would feed into the trading aspect of the game, and costs would fluctuate with current market supply and demand.
The arguments based on telling others not to use instant if they don't like it, really miss the point of an mmo, every action has an effect on every player in some way whether they choose to ignore that fact doesn't stop it happening.
Partially, yes. It is also a balance consideration.
If you want my real opinion on this, though...
Cargo load should take time. I should be able to walk around the dock and see machines loading up the cargo hold. That may happen one day, and in my estimation, for the robotic loading of 720 tons of cargo, it should go fairly quickly...considering each drone could probably carry 10 canisters. Energy is cheap, so there would be a lot of drones...loading would take the space of a couple minutes.
Refueling should be done in seconds
Outfitting, since these are the most modular looking things I've ever seen, would take a trivial amount of time, too.
Transit to last station on ship destruction, i'm not a huge fan of, but it has been pointed out in this thread and several others that the instant transfer is there to facilitate continued gameplay. Rather than just sitting there, literally unable to play. Personally, I'd like to have to fly my pod to a nearby station with a shipyard. It'd be faster than normal hyperjumping given the minuscule size and a cache of jumponium on board.
I know my opinions aren't popular. However, in defense of txfr delay, I'd say to your orignal statement that the existence of immersion breaking design decisions does not create precedent for adding more immersion breaking design decisions. Rather, I feel it lends to the need to push for better verisimilitude in subsequent additions and updates.
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Yeah, that was just a simple sugestion, the real calculation would be up to the devs.
But, since programming is math, we can easily divide the result by another number, it is just a simple equation, on my second post I specified it in seconds, which I think would be better.
There is nothing that prevents us from doing:
timeDelay = (mass * distance) / gameBalanceConstant;
gameBalanceConstant is a number defined by the Game Designer Team to receive a reasonable time.
Brett C
Frontier
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How about they implement both? Just have it on a tiered system.
- Tier 1: Full rebuy cost of ship. No wait time.
- Tier 2: Pay a little more and wait even less.
- Tier 3: Pay slightly more than minimum and wait less time.
- Tier 4: Pay minimum credits and wait the default time.
How is it much different than "instant transfer" of your escape pod to the last station you docked at? Should we put a delay on that as well?
Sandro: What is the compromise on how much time is enough to wait? Or how little to wait? How do you plan on figuring this out?
I fear implementing "egg timers" without any other sort of in-game crew delivery management, delivery reputation system, or long-range hauler gameplay will just leave most of the community at somewhere along the spectrum of unhappy, as some commanders may think the delay is too short, and some still too long, and many would rather rid of the delay all together.
No, it's not. I'm waiting on a ship or doing a task in the meantime that I don't need the ship I ordered to do. You yourself said that the punishing time-taxes in elite due to the vast distances involved are a barrier to the user's intended gameplay. This strikes me as a half-measure compromise which returns me to the original question.
How much time is enough to wait? Or how little to wait? How do you plan on figuring this out?
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