[Poll] I call for a motion for the Imperial Government to formally re-brand Imperial Slavery as Imperial Servitude.

[Brian of Ardagh]

It's a dystopian Sci-fi future, slaves are a thing. So are guns & drugs & pirates & so on, and the point of them being in the game is to encourage you to make a moral choice. If you are concerned about RL slavery enough to want to discuss it on a game forum maybe start a thread in the off-topic forum?

For me it's a bit of role play, but the connection to RL is important as a historical anchor.

As for it being a dystopian sci-fi game, I wouldn't call it dystopian, it's a rough galaxy for sure but hardly dystopian.

I would like to see those moral changes have some influence in the various governments. I don't want or expect be the leader of an anti-slavery revolt but I'd like to see some change if most Commanders push for it.

 

[Riverside]

This is a thread on in-game slavery mechanics, so I'll discuss it here.

What's to discuss? You think someone is going to argue the case in favour or RL slavery? Or are you just trying to score political points? You're way off-topic.

 

[Riverside]

For me it's a bit of role play, but the connection to RL is important as a historical anchor.

As for it being a dystopian sci-fi game, I wouldn't call it dystopian, it's a rough galaxy for sure but hardly dystopian.

I would like to see those moral changes have some influence in the various governments. I don't want or expect be the leader of an anti-slavery revolt but I'd like to see some change if most Commanders push for it.

People do already. Quite a bit in this game, and they discuss it here. And others don't care & just want the money, yet more simply don't think about the moral implications.

If you have an issue with Slavery in-game, there very probably is an existing group you can join. If there is an issue, it's the players that don't even consider it as a dilemma. This thread is about Imperial Slaves, and whether or not to more clearly differentiate them from regular (illegal) slaves.

All the game does is present the player with choices here, it's up to you to decide what action you want to take.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

What's to discuss? You think someone is going to argue the case in favour or RL slavery? Or are you just trying to score political points? You're way off-topic.

I won't speak for thorn but the in-game addition of a slave trade that allows players to make a "moral choice" to earn vast amounts of credits easily is a choice of the developers. That in itself is worthy of discussion.

The OP wants imperial slavery to be euphemistically referred to as imperial servitude to make the practice less stigmatizing. That is also worthy of discussion.

No one here is in favor of RL slavery of any kind. The in game implementation can be discussed in reference to RL slavery though since a comparison between the aspects of current issues with slavery can be used as a starting point to in-game slavery and FD's choice to add it to the game.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

People do already. Quite a bit in this game, and they discuss it here. And others don't care & just want the money, yet more simply don't think about the moral implications.

If you have an issue with Slavery in-game, there very probably is an existing group you can join. If there is an issue, it's the players that don't even consider it as a dilemma. This thread is about Imperial Slaves, and whether or not to more clearly differentiate them from regular (illegal) slaves.

All the game does is present the player with choices here, it's up to you to decide what action you want to take.

We are discussing it here and why some might feel why renaming imperial slavery as imperial servitude is just an attempt to make the practice less stigmatizing to traders. Therefore it's on topic, in my view.

 

[Calebe]

Honestly who cares, it is a game. I voted change it, but f they do or don't it won't change anything as far as game play is concerned. I think some people get to worried about details that make no difference.
.
Calebe

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Honestly who cares, it is a game. I voted change it, but f they do or don't it won't change anything as far as game play is concerned. I think some people get to worried about details that make no difference.
.
Calebe

C'est la vie

 

[Lemanrouste]

All you feds saying slavery is slavery are hypocritical beyond compare. The Federation is far more rife with real dirty slavery than the empire has ever been. You don't even have to feed your slaves, just give them a pitence of a minimum wage.

' oh but at least its their choice' you keep telling yourself that but that just makes it obvious you've never been near the bottom of the barrel. In the federation its starve or slave and starve slower.

/rant

Definitely no option to get out of it, not like the Navy exists or you can't just hop in a sidewinder loaned from the Pilots Federation and work for pay.

Definitely worse a fate than being ripped from your family and sent light years away in a cramped canister. At the end of the day, I won't be able to buy Federal "Slaves" at any station I go to; not sol, not Mu Koji, not even 17 Draconis, lightyears from the human bubble. The only places you can buy slaves from are Empire and Anarchy stations.

 

[RedWarden]

Internship?

Just for clarification, Imperial slavery is the practice of allowing private Imperial citizens to make the choice to enter into a contracted period of servitude to repay a personally accrued debt.

Seems like a University graduate internship.
While I'm for the change, it always seems odd to haul people around like so much livestock (cattle) and deliver them to another station where they will .... ?? Hmmm.

I tried a couple of runs hauling Imp slaves. Felt really guilty and cried myself out of the bubble :^)

 

[veryinky]

Sure, Empire can call it whatever they like.

https://community.elitedangerous.com/galnet/12-JUL-3301

Originally the Empire gassed the aliens who were living on Achenar for more colony space. This is what caused the whole Empire vs Federation war that took the lives of trillions, destroyed Galcop, caused anarchy to reign for centuries. But then a couple centuries later, the Imperial Gazette in Elite:2 published an article (same as the new galnet one) where they were simply "relocated" to reserves (without ever saying where they were relocated to). Now the most recent Imperial Official Historical Research Society has now revised that century old article changing the lines referring to the aliens being "relocated" as to now the aliens never existed and the whole thing was just some dastardly accusation by the Federation because there never have been aliens. So trillions died and intergalactic society nearly collapsed into barbarism, not because a massive genocide which wiped out Galcop and all it's member races, but because the Federation is evil and stuff. Galcop still existed though, since their ships still exist centuries later, but they weren't genocided, they just kinda went away once the Imperial Peace And Friendship ships arrived over their planets.

Isn't that nice? All those new worlds open to human colonization?

So yeah, to people who are legally considered Imperial citizens, they're not slaves now actually in a few years they'll probably never have been slaves. Anyone who says they're slaves is to be sent to re-education camps until they start remembering history the right way.

 

[baconster]

I voted yes cause I believe servitude is a more accurate description of what happens in the Empire. If this change goes through having "Imperial Slaves" changed to "Imperial Servants" in the commodities market would also be helpful to set them apart from regular "Slaves".

 

[Artemis Zodiac]

All I got from OP is blah blah blah......I'm a do Gooder.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

You can buy and sell them = slaves, or football players.

 

[Gold Coins for Cats]

If nothing else, it could stir up a massive kerfuffle in universe, causing all the arguments outlined in this thread, while anyone outside the Empire wouldn't care what it's called, since we never see the distinction anyways.

It would be relegated to meaningless chaff that the Imperial citizens would be discussing while trying to ignore Federal/Empire relations deteriorating. While one side would argue trying to make Slave owning more PC to make the Empire seem more friendly, others would scoff, saying that the Empire shouldn't try to pretty itself up for the Feds.

Consider me intrigued.

(Also if we somehow get another slave-themed CG out of this we might be able to purchase Imperial ships without rank again, and I'll be the first in line to buy a Clipper and paint it Assault Ship green.)

 

[Raumfahrer Spiff]

That's the spirit!

 

[raeat]

Why not just rename them "wage slaves?"

 

[Achilles7]

So did DB's judgement.

In the modern world, you have children sold as sex slaves. Sometimes with the consent of their parents. You have adults in Somolia, brutalized, mutilated, and sold to rival tribes.

And Frontier apparently believes that slavery is an entertaining, immersive trade mechanic, so that players can earn millions and purchase a Cutter. It's repulsive.

Let's, for the sake of argument, assume you are not trolling..

Agreed..bad things happen, so let's make sure the game doesn't celebrate or glorify them as entertainment!

Btw murder, assassination, war, pirating, drug dealing, arms smuggling - these are okay, right? Also please let's all make it clear to makers of 'Fallout' that nuclear war is not the kind of thing we endorse & boycott their product as an act of solidarity with all those who suffered the aftermath at Hiroshima & Nagasaki!

Someone hasn't thought through their emotion-fuelled argument very well!

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Seems like a thing that would happen in real life but would change the game somewhat. The label and term slavery is quite the identifier and its good to be like that.

That having been said I could see it happening in a heartbeat and would be a cool way of making Elite feel more real.. Mixed bag on this one. I voted yes but I think this should happen in a year or two's time not just yet

 

[edgar]

I voted no.

The distinction between the two types of slavery is clearly defined already. A rebranding isn't necessary, Commanders should just engage their brains and read the words that explain the difference.

FD following through on the idea that Imperial slaves must be transported via passenger modules would IMO realise the difference between unregulated and imperial slavery much more clearly.

 

[veryinky]

Why not just rename them "wage slaves?"

They're not paid a salary.

How about "temporarily embarrassed citizens", "imperial volunteer corps", "not currently in employment, non-employment, or education or training", "the product", "emergency meat supply"

 

[Sapyx]

For those not of the Imperial persuasion, it really isn't so much about how the person became a slave that is abhorrent. A system where citizens are programmed from birth via Imperial cultural propaganda to turn themselves into slaves cannot be said to be much of an improvement over old-fashioned kidnapping and slave raiding. It is what happens to said slaves afterwards that is abhorrent.

Slaves, of both flavours, are commoditized people. You speak of "protections" offered to Imperial Slaves, but such protections are invisible and irrelevant to us, as the potential slave purchasers and transporters. Have you ever bought an Imperial Slave, only to have that slave decline your offer to transport them off-world? No, of course not. They are fungible cargo. And while some - the ones found in mission transactions - have some guarantee as to where they specifically will end up, those who are traded on the open market have no such guarantees. The only thing preventing a pilot from selling the Imperial Slaves they buy to Archon Delaine is the honour of the pilot in question - and if that pilot is not RPing a loyal servant of the Empire, then that honour is nonexistent. We don't even need a Imperial slavery shipping permit.

As for the eventual fate of the slaves that don't get exported out of the Empire, let's see what ED itself has to say about them. Open the galaxy map and click on one of the older Imperial mining colonies - any of the ones that were in the old FE2/FFE games and therefore had their system descriptions copied over from there into ED. Any one of them will do, but if you're having difficulty finding one, click on Laedla. Read about how the system's economy requires the use of slaves to maximize the efficiency of ore extraction. Now find an "old" agricultural world; Cemiess is nearby to Laedla; the first paragraph was copied over from FE2/FFE. Again, read how Imperial Slaves are seen as necessary to keep the economy churning over. Such slaves may be worked to death in these environments, just like "regular slaves" would be outside of the Empire, unless they are strong, or lucky, or manage to get themselves sold into a cushy job that doesn't involve hard labour.

Changing the label will change none of this. And will not make the concept any more palatable to non-Imperials.