Python Fighters ???

I use the Python a lot, leaving the Anaconda and Cutter parked up in the garage. I've also been playing Beta, so I have been messing about with SLF. An engineered Python, particularly with dirty drives, is such an excellent ship that I genuinely worry that the nerf bat will descend again on the Python. The Python does not need fighters, and neither does the Clipper, incidentally [see Beta forum].

All the ships which now deploy fighters were designed conceptually with fighters in mind, except for the T9. The Keelback and the FGS were launched without their advertised fighters, and unsurprisingly have been very unpopular; that will now change somewhat. The Keelback, though, seems really to be just a cheap option of giving fighters a go, without grinding credits and rank. I can live with that. Giving the T9 the option post hoc makes perfect sense, and I can't envisage many people trying to kit one out for serious PVP. The T9 is a huge, ungainly trader with measly defence: the T9 deserves a fighter!

The Anaconda, and moreso the Corvette and Cutter, are no-brainers. I think there is a general consensus as to why they are SLF capable; the Beluga, given its size and purpose, also makes sense. Although it is worth pointing out that most passengers, particularly the high rollers, are risk averse. Every time you get into SLF pew-pew action, their satisfaction diminishes. This eventually leads to a reduction in your fee, and once you've paid your crewmate's percentage, you might start to consider swapping the fighter bay for another passenger cabin. ;)
 
I really can't believe I'm now reading people say let's nerf the Pythons internals back to the stone age just to fit a fighter bay.

How about we don't and instead accept that the damn Python doesn't need a fighter bay?

Seriously, what is the point of taking a ship which has versatility as its main selling point and completely crippling that versatility just so a few people who don't want to fly anything else can have a fighter in it, in the process screwing over everybody who couldn't care less about having fighters in it but would like to carry on using the versatile ship for the current range of tasks it is useful for? Which is everything apart from launching fighters.

I have two pythons, one is a dedicated miner and the other is my main mission running ship and engineering wagon. The second one of those ships is one in which I can undock and do basically anything other than prolonged res site/CZ combat and that's only because I haven't built it for pure combat in order to keep the mass down a bit and ensure a decent jump range. Sure you can build a conda to do the same job, but you can't land at outposts in it.

This is a game that involves choices, it's just a shame that all too often one of those choices seems to be misinterpreted as 'come on the forums complaining that I actually have to use different ships for different jobs'. If you want a fighter bay ship buy one and fly it. The ships with fighter bays have been known since before I started playing. Deal with it.
 
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The Keelback, though, seems really to be just a cheap option of giving fighters a go, without grinding credits and rank.

I'm sure you're right but I've actually had my heart set on one since I got ED. I was disappointed to learn I wouldn't be able to put my Sidey in it to use as a shuttle but it's still the only ship I'm specifically looking forward to owning - although this thread is putting a Python up there too :)
 
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How about an engineer offering a half height fighter bay?

As an aside, if the Keelback can take a fighter, then why not the T6 and T7?
 
What's the scope for slinging a single fighter underneath, and accessing through a hatch in the roof?

tumblr_mvd8hgk6dG1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif


Ground Clearance (height of mother landing gear) might be the limiting issue of course.

Star-Trek-Insurrection-02.jpg
 
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Really FD...

You put fighters in a KEELBACK and you do not put fighters in a PYTHON...

May I say from the bottom of my heart that is STUPID... :S:S:S:S:S

The Python can already do *everything*. It is awesome.

The Keelback can do *nothing*. It is trash.


Have a heart! Throw the poor thing a bone!
 
This is a game that involves choices, it's just a shame that all too often one of those choices seems to be misinterpreted as 'come on the forums complaining that I actually have to use different ships for different jobs'. If you want a fighter bay ship buy one and fly it. The ships with fighter bays have been known since before I started playing. Deal with it.


Sorry, but this typical type of response is completely unacceptable. Not everyone can afford the most expensive ships in the game and not everyone likes lumbering giants anyway. The only vaguely usable medium ship is seriously rank locked.
FD really should have put some thought in about it quite frankly with regard to a usable medium ship. Effectively telling many, many people that they can't use content that they have paid for is unacceptable. Putting fighters on a keelback takes its measure of uselessness completely off the scale.
This type of thread is only going to get worse when this update goes live.
 
Wait, what now? How exactly do you "sneak up" on an Eagle that interdicts you?

So I guess you're flailing around after being interdicted by an Eagle going "how the      did THAT happen?"

I only get interdicted by Eagles when I WANT to be caught by an Eagle. When that happens I have plenty of time to flip my Python and go weapons hot. Unless that Eagle is running a high ranking 'OH    !' moment when he drops in and realizes he's staring a very angry Python in the teeth, he's not going to last long enough to summon the cops.

Vipers and the like on the other hand just shake off the first barrage even at low levels.

Not sure why you think this but it's incorrect. Anaconda's base shield is higher than the Python's. Using the same 6A shield generator the Python has 397 MJ base shield and the Anaconda has 502 MJ. That's 26% more base shield strength for the Anaconda, using the same generator, plus the Anaconda has 8 utility slots, twice as many utility slots as the Python. In practice this means you can easily reach 750-800 MJ in an Anaconda vs. around 500 MJ in a Python with shield boosters factored in. Not to mention the Anaconda's resistances using thermal shield booster mods will be considerably higher than the Python's as well given that it has more boosters to carry the mods.

I'll give you that but if you're really running 8 shield boosters, you're going to be helpless when those missles and Torps start coming at you. Utility slots hold more then just Shield Boosters.

Jump range is not a balancing factor in combat, nor is it meant to be. Jump range is a balancing factor for ship designs overall. Corvette is already the top of the combat tiers among the large ships. Python can't compete even without fighter factored in, if you give the Corvette fighters the Python is even worse off.

Oh really? I thought we were throwing out pointless arbitrary 'balancing' in favor of giving ships abilites that would make them more powerful but I guess Corvettes don't need to chase down pirates across multiple systems.

Actually a modded Corvette is surprisingly agile.

In pitch/roll maybe but lateral and forward/reverse thrusting which is the other half of maneuverability is VERY lacking.

First I don't know where you get the term "escort class". That is not a "class" in Elite and it's not even a class of ships in the real-world navy. You seem to have invented your own term for a role that doesn't actually exist in the game.

In-game description said:
The Anaconda is the pride of Faulcon deLacy's ship yards. The design was first manufactured in 2856 by RimLiner Galactic. After numerous mergers the template was eventually owned by Faulcon deLacy, who have made only minor changes to the classic design. The Anaconda is a versatile craft that can transport large cargos as well as pack a decent punch. Some smaller navies use the Anaconda in the light cruiser and frigate roles. The Anaconda can also be upgraded with a docking bay allowing small fighters up to Sidewinder size to be carried and launched.

Escort. Class. Ship.

Yes I may be making up my own terms to more easily and accurately describe the ship types based on landing pad sizes but I don't think they're too far off the mark if you're actually reading the in-game descriptions. Which apparently yes, DO use RL ship classes to describe them.

What "bombing runs" are you referring to here? That doesn't really exist in the game. Torpedoes are the closest equivalent, and they are extremely limited due to ammunition.

Now you're catching on.

What are you even talking about here? Any ability to bring NPC teammates isn't even part of the current or planned features at this point. Even if it were, it would apply to all ships and therefore cancel out. It's like we're not even talking about the same game here, you're referring to concepts that simply don't apply with the current gameplay we have in Elite.

Lavecon 2016 Q&A Session said:
Q: AI wing men "escorts"?
A: Can't say anything right now.

Dev Speak Translation: In development. Nothing to comment on as we have nothing solid to report at this time but we are aware it's a feature we can add and looks feasible.

Blog Post Citation.


Three. Moves. Ahead.

There are no "escort-class" vessels.

See above regarding the Anaconda in-game description. It's not just there to look pretty. Usually. *glares at Corvette*

There are no "bombing runs".

So what are these missiles and torpedo hardpoints for? Candy and popcorn storage?

There are no "wolfpack tactics", there is just a limited wing mechanic.

So I suppose I was simply imagining things and Tutorial Mission Number 5: "Wolfpack Tactics" was a figment of my imagination and that mission doesn't exist. I just made up the entire lesson it's supposed to teach new players about how to take advantage of ally NPCs and work together to bring down bigger more powerful ships.

I'm referring to the current state of the game, you seem to be referring to roles and ability that aren't actually implemented yet.

No, you're trying to bull     me and hoping I'm too stupid to notice.

SEMPAI NOTICED.
 
Sorry, but this typical type of response is completely unacceptable. Not everyone can afford the most expensive ships in the game and not everyone likes lumbering giants anyway. The only vaguely usable medium ship is seriously rank locked.
FD really should have put some thought in about it quite frankly with regard to a usable medium ship. Effectively telling many, many people that they can't use content that they have paid for is unacceptable. Putting fighters on a keelback takes its measure of uselessness completely off the scale.
This type of thread is only going to get worse when this update goes live.


The FDL and Python are both medium ships. Both are awesome.

Unless you mean smaller than that... in which case there's the Asp and Vulture. both brilliant.

None rank-locked.
 
Sorry, but this typical type of response is completely unacceptable. Not everyone can afford the most expensive ships in the game and not everyone likes lumbering giants anyway. The only vaguely usable medium ship is seriously rank locked.
FD really should have put some thought in about it quite frankly with regard to a usable medium ship. Effectively telling many, many people that they can't use content that they have paid for is unacceptable. Putting fighters on a keelback takes its measure of uselessness completely off the scale.
This type of thread is only going to get worse when this update goes live.

That entitlement.
 
Really FD...

You put fighters in a KEELBACK and you do not put fighters in a PYTHON...

May I say from the bottom of my heart that is STUPID... :S:S:S:S:S

Why?
Not all vehicles need to be able to do everything just because they are of a certain size.
Just like in real life.
 
Sorry, but this typical type of response is completely unacceptable.

To you apparently.

Not everyone can afford the most expensive ships in the game

This is factually inaccurate. Not currently having the credits to purchase one is not the same thing.

and not everyone likes lumbering giants anyway.

Yeah. You're not really getting the whole 'choices' thing are you? How about if I only like to fly Cobras but paid for the update, fighter bay for the Cobra too?

The only vaguely usable medium ship is seriously rank locked.

Are you telling me you're prohibited from ranking up as well as earning credits?

FD really should have put some thought in about it

They did.

Effectively telling many, many people that they can't use content that they have paid for is unacceptable.

Nobody has done that. Again, you are not restricted. Did you complain when huge multi cannons were released by the way, since you obviously can't equip them on a ship that you own?

This type of thread is only going to get worse when this update goes live.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. It's not actually a reason to change anything though.
 
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Why should the Python have fighters? Other than "I like the Python and I want to use fighters?"
The Python is a heavily armed and well-protected craft, being quite maneuverable (considering its hulking size) and potentially useful in a variety of roles.

It is considered by some to be the most effective balance between firepower, manouvrebility, and protection currently available. In addition to being capable of holding its own against the larger Anaconda in a toe-to-toe frontal battle through its substantial protection and firepower, the Python is generally agile enough to comfortably deal with smaller fighter classes without having to rely on turret mounts.

This is the description from the Elite Wiki. THe Python was never intended to carry fighters and it is not part of the design principle. It is already a versatile ship that can be combat or trade fitted, there's no real, in-game reason for it to mount fighters.
 
If they can't make fighters a balanced choice they are dong it wrong. Each ship should have strengths and weaknesses, but they should not need to use any particular module setup to be useful. If you're saying the Gunship "needs" fighters, then that means that the Gunship isn't a properly balanced ship.

Aircraft carriers are totally unbalanced ships, because without their airplanes, they are basically defenseless!

Federal Corvettes are totally unbalanced, because if you leave their C4 slots, they lack a lot of firepower!

Imperial Cutters are totally unbalanced, because if you don't equip shields, they are shieldless!
 
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