Collection of Ideas for Elite 4

[Glyndo]

I wholeheartedly agree, we need proximity warning as soon as there is another ship in 50-100km radius. Also, we need colored blips on system map again. It would also be a nice idea if you wouldn't be able to detect targets when there is another object in the line of sight - terrain for close range scanners, major body in system map. System map could also render zones inaccessible to your scanner behind major bodies. Now if you added intercept warning (as soon as computer determines there are objects, even distant ones, at intercept course it would notify the commander) to standard proximity warnings it would allow for some interesting tactics forcing pirates to prepare ambushes, for example in the scanner shadow of some gas giant when attacking fast ships (of course if your trajectory doesn't pass in reasonable proximity of such objects they'd have to chase you as in good old days).

Now that's a great idea!

Also want to add that I like the idea of being able to connect to the internet to see who is in the same starport as previously mentioned. I think that's a great idea as long as the game-year of each person was ignored!

 

[DraQ]

Other improvements I'd be glad to see:

1. Ability to mount more than single forward firing weapon.

2. Kinetic weapons, like mass drivers, limited by ammo, having great range, but limited by their speed, maybe "sand-bag" type of weapon with projectiles bursting into clouds of metallic particles - deadly in high-velocity collisions, butnearly harmles otherwise.

2. More varied missiles and payloads:
-Sluggish, heavy hitting torpedoes
-small, weak, but swift anti-fighter missiles
-rocket packs
-multi warhead missiles
-fragmentation payloads
-plasma payloads (tremendous firepower, minimal AOE)
-payloads with different AOE and hitting power
-EMP stunning electronic systems for a short while and depleting shields
-bombs, either passive or with very limited meneuvering capacity that can launched from cargo bay
-energy bombs doing less damage, but capable of destroying unshielded drives

3. More anti-missile systems - for example automated turret equiped with state-of the art tracking systems and very weak, fast firing pulse laser that would require a weapon mount (typically one of the turrets or rear mount, with rear mount giving the least coverage).

4. Better, more informative HUD with zoom capability.

5. Better damage model - I want to be able to completely disable enemy ship's maneuvering capability as well as capability to use energy weapons by destroing the drive. I want to be able to damage weapons as well or kill the crew by destroying the crew area. Visible battle damage would be most welcome. Also, kinetic energy. If I ram Panther Clipper with my Falcon at 3000km/h I would be vaporized, granted but the Panther should have gapping hole puinched through it's hull.

6. Wreckage, possibly even with survivors. 'Nuff said.

7. Better AI, no more "Ha Ha" when they no longer have any drive, hull integrity at 1.2% and I'm tracking them with my plasma accelerator. I want to be able to negotiate, to be forced to dump cargo when the enemy is in position to make demands and to be able to make demands myself, even sell captured people as slaves in exchange for their lives. I also want to see enemies using their turrets as well as allowing my crew to do so as well.
Crew performance should vary according to their abilities.

8. Upgrades. Autopilot upgrade allowing it to perform more advanced maneuvers such as flip braking, or utilizing orbital mechanics to get to a destination faster and more efficiently. Radar mapper upgrade allowing it to get more details about tracked ship. Etc. While we are at that, I want autopilot with atmospheric flight capability rather than deep impact probe capability.

9. Ground forces. If I am happily flying around and raking city with my 4MW beam I should expect to be blown out of the sky by ground based laser and missile batteries (both stationary and mobile) and maybe even ground based plasma accelerators in most developed systems. Stations should also get some defensive capabilities.

10. More missions. I want to participate in deployment/retrieval missions, equipment drop missions, escort missions, rescue missions and any other type of mission that is imaginable and makes sense.

 

[Adrena1in]

I keep going to write something about the whole on-line/single-player debate, but everyone's pretty much covered everything to be honest. I do have an idea though...just not sure how implementable it'd be.

Ever since online gaming first appeared I've thought how cool Elite on-line would be, so I think it would be a shame for there not to be any on-line combat capabilities. I'll leave it to the clever people to work out how it'll happen, but what do people think about sectioning the galaxy into off-line systems and on-line systems?

In off-line systems it would be just like FE2 or FFE, but you would still have the on-line bulletin boards within each system. (I think it would be better to have access to ALL Bulletin Boards within a system, and not just those in the same spaceport. Perhaps only allow trading with those in the same spaceport as you though.)

However, what about some individual systems, or clusters of systems, or the entire central "sector" of the galaxy, being on-line? You could avoid them if you wanted to, but if you felt like a bit of head-to-head action against real people, you could enter those systems and do some dogfighting. You could broadcast real messages to all in range. Bring up the system map to see where other people are, what ships they have and stuff like that. Challenge people to duels.

I think Stardreamer would still be do-able, but as others have said...not to speed up time, but to actually speed yourself up...a bit like the thing in the original Elite...Impulse Drive, or whatever you want to call it. Would only work when you're not under attack and when no other ships are in range, (<50km or whatever). That way, if you were under attack and vastly out-gunned, but had a quick ship, you could fly out of range and then escape with your Impulse Drive.

As well as many other pitfalls to all this, the whole game-save thing could be abused. For example, save a game in an off-line system, jump into on-line, take on an opponent, get killed, reload quickly, jump back on-line and have another go. Would be silly.

Hmmm, it won't be easy. I've not seen any of the current on-line space sim offerings to have any idea of how it could work in E4.

 

[DraQ]

what do people think about sectioning the galaxy into off-line systems and on-line systems?

What's the point? Why cut off part of the galaxy in each of the modes?

I think Stardreamer would still be do-able, but as others have said...not to speed up time, but to actually speed yourself up...

And crap all over the newtonian physics.

 

[Adrena1in]

Was just a thought...a way to keep happy the single players and also the multi-player wannabes. Sort of like having a "Neutral Zone" I suppose, where single-players can carry on, safe in the knowledge that they're not going to get vapourised by a player who lives in the game, but can, if they wish, partake in multi-play activities.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Was just a thought...a way to keep happy the single players and also the multi-player wannabes. Sort of like having a "Neutral Zone" I suppose, where single-players can carry on, safe in the knowledge that they're not going to get vapourised by a player who lives in the game, but can, if they wish, partake in multi-play activities.

I think that due to the nature of travel in Elite, multiplayer game becomes extremely difficult because each play would have to exist in their own timeline. Very rarely would that timeline intersect with another players.

 

[DraQ]

Was just a thought...a way to keep happy the single players and also the multi-player wannabes. Sort of like having a "Neutral Zone" I suppose, where single-players can carry on, safe in the knowledge that they're not going to get vapourised by a player who lives in the game, but can, if they wish, partake in multi-play activities.

Wouldn't it be simpler, easier, infinitely more logical and vastly more preferable to have separate multiplayer mode using the same universe as single player with somewhat different physics and automated, weightless, indestructible escape capsules installed on all ships?

I don't see how could anyone possibly want to have their game mechanics change seemingly at random depending on whether the system they are currently in is off- or online. And what about systems like, say, Achernar? Offline or online?

 

[Prycon]

Wouldn't it be simpler, easier, infinitely more logical and vastly more preferable to have separate multiplayer mode using the same universe as single player with somewhat different physics and automated, weightless, indestructible escape capsules installed on all ships?

I don't see how could anyone possibly want to have their game mechanics change seemingly at random depending on whether the system they are currently in is off- or online. And what about systems like, say, Achernar? Offline or online?

Having separate singelplayer and multiplayer mode, is what I suggested earlier. Singleplayer should be the same as FE2 and FFE. But multiplayer mode needs to crack the multiplayer in frontier paradox, and how do we do that? This is why I suggested that the "stardreamer" works different in multiplayer. Time does not speed up, but you do. I would like to hear other ideas on how to make multiplayer work in Elite4? I think people will be disappointed if there where non. It doesn't matter for me because I'm a singleplayer guy.

I agree on the system server thing. It would be hopeless to have some system you couldn't visit because the server was off line.

 

[Adrena1in]

I agree on the system server thing. It would be hopeless to have some system you couldn't visit because the server was off line.

Fair enough that it wasn't a good idea, but that's not what I meant. I didn't mean some servers would be offline so you wouldn't be able to visit systems there. What I meant is that some systems within the game would only be in single-player mode. You could navigate these single player systems as much as you wanted, (such as I would as I'm a single-player person myself really), but other systems would be in the Multiplayer regions of space, and when you enter those it would be like joining a multi-player game. Other players there would be humans, not computer-controlled. You could drop in and out of multiplayer-mode simply by navigating between certain systems, rather than ending a single-player game and having to start a multiplayer game if that's what you wanted to do.

Does that make sense?

 

[DraQ]

Does that make sense?

I understand you, but no.

I don't want to have to adjust to altered mechanics whenever I enter the system. I also don't want to be confronted by multiplayer crowd whenever I enter, for example Sol or Achernar. What I want is a separate offline and online modes if there has to be multiplayer.

 

[Moriarity]

Hey guys.

Here are some ideas i'd love to see in E4.

1. In multiplayer, a ranking system of the deadliest players and thier elite rating.

2. A mission/story editor like Neverwinter Nights has,for single player elite.

I think if the editor was as succesfull as NWN it would be awesome. I remember freespace had an editor as did wing commander. I know with NWN its been very succesfull, with some great custom made stuff.

3. If there is a storyline in E4, i'd like to have different endings based on alignment and choices made through the game. So many games have this kind of thing now- Fable, Jade empire, kotor, Baldurs gate etc.

I think DraQ's got a couple of good ideas too

Other improvements I'd be glad to see:

1. Ability to mount more than single forward firing weapon.

5. Better damage model - I want to be able to completely disable enemy ship's maneuvering capability as well as capability to use energy weapons by destroing the drive. I want to be able to damage weapons as well or kill the crew by destroying the crew area. Visible battle damage would be most welcome. Also, kinetic energy. If I ram Panther Clipper with my Falcon at 3000km/h I would be vaporized, granted but the Panther should have gapping hole puinched through it's hull.

7. Better AI, no more "Ha Ha" when they no longer have any drive, hull integrity at 1.2% and I'm tracking them with my plasma accelerator. I want to be able to negotiate, to be forced to dump cargo when the enemy is in position to make demands and to be able to make demands myself, even sell captured people as slaves in exchange for their lives. I also want to see enemies using their turrets as well as allowing my crew to do so as well.
Crew performance should vary according to their abilities.

8. Upgrades. Autopilot upgrade allowing it to perform more advanced maneuvers such as flip braking, or utilizing orbital mechanics to get to a destination faster and more efficiently. Radar mapper upgrade allowing it to get more details about tracked ship. Etc. While we are at that, I want autopilot with atmospheric flight capability rather than deep impact probe capability.

1. More weapons - Definatly . It would be cool if you could have gun ships firing lots of guns ala star wars, recreating the immense space fights showed in the movies, rather than a single pulse laser firing.

5. Better Damage - Would be great. More visable damage effects and the ability to disable subsystems, as well as collision damage.

7. Better A.I - Id also like that. If a falcon meets my panther clipper, the falcon should flee, rather than stay and fight against impossible odds.

8. Upgrades - Yes Good idea!! Better manouveres, and defensive capabilities with auto moves, like they have in Star Trek, such as attack pattern delta etc

I think there are some great ideas in this topic. Elite 4s already sounding like a great game lol.



Cheers

Moriarity

 

[DraQ]

I think DraQ's got a couple of good ideas too

Thank you.

1. More weapons - Definatly . It would be cool if you could have gun ships firing lots of guns ala star wars, recreating the immense space fights showed in the movies, rather than a single pulse laser firing.

Well, it would make difference between smallest of fighters (single forward weapon mount) and the likes of Asp or Cobra MkIII more palpable. It would also improve customizability - would I rather sacrifice 20t of space for tried and true 4MW beam, or put 5MW pulse and 1MW beam on forward mount? Maybe I should use 1MW beam and 30MW minig laser instead? Or some beam laser for close combat and mass driver for trying to slug enemies from afar? Etc.

5. Better Damage - Would be great. More visable damage effects and the ability to disable subsystems, as well as collision damage.

You already can disable the drive in FE2 and FFE and it does depend on hit location (with little practice you can do it reliably with short bursts from beam laser). The problem is it doesn't work - the damaged ship behaves as if it worked normally.

7. Better A.I - Id also like that. If a falcon meets my panther clipper, the falcon should flee, rather than stay and fight against impossible odds.

Also - varying AI. There should be losers and there should be aces. Bell curve distribution please.

8. Upgrades - Yes Good idea!! Better manouveres, and defensive capabilities with auto moves, like they have in Star Trek, such as attack pattern delta etc

It'd certainly be cool to be able to buy some upgrades and then use your new and improved autopilot for intercepts or quick deliveries (with flipping your ship and braking with main thruster).

 

[Cjr]

I'm new to this forum, but I'd like some of following in E4:

- the ability to seemlessly fly from space to the planets surface.
- have an avatar thats not a ship allowing you to walk around.
- full control over the ship if im the pilot
- custom made hulls
- ability to walk around the ship and have a crew of npcs or other players in the ship too
- some sort of crafting option

now on a more mechanics side of thing

- ensure that the penalty for death isnt too harsh such that you lose everything, like Eve (which sucks)
- try not to make the improvment progress about how much time u put into it

 

[DraQ]

- the ability to seemlessly fly from space to the planets surface.

1. It was present in Frontier: Elite 2 in 1993, it was present in Frontier: First Encounters in 1995. I don't think anyone here even imagines E4 without seamless planetary landings.

- have an avatar thats not a ship allowing you to walk around.

2. If it's more than a gimmick and doesn't consume resources that would be best used elsewhere.

- full control over the ship if im the pilot

3. Pretty much sure thing. You had it in FE2 and FFE, especially after JJFFE introduced 'Jordanian Controls'.

- custom made hulls

4. How? I don't quite see it with Frontier style ships.

- ability to walk around the ship and have a crew of npcs or other players in the ship too

5. See 2., crew performing actual tasks and manning the turrets with proficiency proportional to their skills would be a welcome addition.

- some sort of crafting option

6. How?

- ensure that the penalty for death isnt too harsh such that you lose everything, like Eve (which sucks)

7. You seem to take for granted that it'll be a MMO, which poses numerous problems, like inability to implement Frontier-style full scale systems and newtonian mechanics, not to mention that making it strictly MMO (without SP option) would alienate many of the series long time fans. Still, in multiplayer, I suppose it'd be easy to fit every ship with an escape capsule.
As long as singleplayer is there and features frontier-style star systems and newtonian mechanics I'm buying this game provided that it doesn't force me to "upgrade" to Vista. Of course, singleplayer should be pay-per-product.

Multiplayer mode can have any alterations that are necessary provided they are confined to it. It can even be in form of an MMO client for what I care.

Final question:

Have you ever played Frontier: Elite 2 or Frontier: First Encounters?

 

[Moriarity]

Hey Cjr.

Welcome to the forums.

- custom made hulls

I hope elite 4 lets you build custom ships too . I think some kind of ship building wizard might work, where you could specify how much guns/cargo space you want , alter the look and shape of your craft, fit passenger cabins, change colour schemes or enter specific dimensions and create totally new ships, could be a lot of fun


Moriarity

 

[DraQ]

I hope elite 4 lets you build custom ships too . I think some kind of ship building wizard might work, where you could specify how much guns/cargo space you want , alter the look and shape of your craft, fit passenger cabins, change colour schemes or enter specific dimensions and create totally new ships, could be a lot of fun

Designing your own hulls would be cool, but not really Elite given that ships are designed by giant corporations. It'd also be hell to implement given that ship hulls in Elite aren't modular.

Other kinds of customization are already in - you can fit whatever you want in your ship - weapons, shields, passenger cabins, etc.

It might be an interesting idea to have separate hyper- and interplanetary drives, with higher class interplanetary drives providing more thrust and range of compatibile interplanetary drives being determined by hull design (for example, Asp's hull would be able to accept really powerful drive systems, relative to it's mass, contributing to Asp's almost proverbial performance, whereas Morray would only be able to be fitted with rather shoddy drive.

Custom color schemes are really cool idea, and easy to implement.

 

[Adrena1in]

You can design and implement your own skins in various games, so I guess that would be pretty cool in E4. Plus it would be very easy too, as the ship hulls shouldn't be as complex as, say, a human skin like in a FPS.

 

[DrBaggy]

Draq,

I'm with you on all those suggestions: a bit worried Frontier are going down the MMO/separate avatar route. Hope they don't lose sight of the qualities that made Elite great: for me that's:
Realism based on physics not eye candy.
Space being BIG and risky (again, if that means black and boring at times, so be it)
Landing on planets, absolutely. Again, it doesn't have to be too pretty, but a sense of exploration would be great.
Set in the Elite universe.

Please take note of the fans, David. Others have tried the "pretty but unrealistic" road (eg the X series) and not done that well. Don't sell out!

p.s. yes have played Elite/Frontier/FFE. So long ago now!

 

[DraQ]

You can design and implement your own skins in various games, so I guess that would be pretty cool in E4. Plus it would be very easy too, as the ship hulls shouldn't be as complex as, say, a human skin like in a FPS.

In most cases making a new model for an FPS game requires creating said model using external 3D modelling software, animating it and implementing it in game.

Creating new ship hull would also require setting up various parameters, like hardpoints, hull mass, nav lights, capacity, thrusters, etc. Those parameters wouldn't be independent either, unless we want to allow creation of, say, escape capsule sized ship with 2000t internal capacity and 60g thrust.

I don't think this idea is viable as anything but part of editing tools.

Now, customizing your ship's paint scheme sounds rather trivial and should be easy to implement in game.

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Draq,
I'm with you on all those suggestions: a bit worried Frontier are going down the MMO/seperate avatar route. Hope they don't lose sight of the qualities that made Elite great: for me that's:
Realism based on physics not eye candy.
Space being BIG and risky (again, if that means black and boring at times, so much the better
Landing on planets, absolutely. Again, it doesn't have to be too pretty, but a sense of exploration would be great.
Set in the Elite universe.

Please take note of the fans, David. Others have tried the "pretty but unrealistic" road (eg the X series) and not done that well. Don't sell out!

Seconded. We already have Eve and I imagine that many long time fans would be less than happy to see an online only game without such key elements as newtonian mechanics and full scaled systems (and these elements would have to go, if only because it's imposible to implement time compression in MMO and having to sit three days straight with hand firmly pressed against main thrust control key, staring into a pale point in the middle of the screen would probably limit the success of the game).

What has always separated Frontier from competition is that you could not just fly around blowig pirates up, but you could do so in realistic, full scaled systems in a fairly realistic manner.

I want to yet again be able to fly into the atmosphere of the planet, but this time seeing nondescricpt green, brown and white smeared sphere with areas of reflective blue transform into varied landscape of seas, deserts, mountains and forests obscured by clouds and dotted with busy cities in full detail.

I want to be able to plunge into the outer layers of a gas giant and again be stunned by it's weird, multilayered cloud formations (gas giants do have a lot of clouds in FE2).

I want to be able to slingshot around Saturn, then activate the drives and settle down under the orange-red skies of Titan. And as years before in FE2 I want to see massive ringed globe when I look up.

p.s. yes have played Elite/fFrontier/FFE. So long ago now!

Well, my question was directed at Cjr who seemed oblivious to what were the key features of Frontier and FFE.

Still, get JJFFE and GLFrontier and relive your memories! First is a replacement executable for FFE with several new features (like full control over all directional thrusters) designed to run on modern machines, second is modern PC version of Frontier, based on Atari version with added very shoddy OpenGL support. Still it can be switched back to 'classic' renderer using Ctrl+E.

 

[DrBaggy]

What has always separated Frontier from competition is that you could not just fly around blowig pirates up, but you could do so in realistic, full scaled systems in a fairly realistic manner.

I want to yet again be able to fly into the atmosphere of the planet, but this time seeing nondescricpt green, brown and white smeared sphere with areas of reflective blue transform into varied landscape of seas, deserts, mountains and forests obscured by clouds and dotted with busy cities in full detail.

I want to be able to plunge into the outer layers of a gas giant and again be stunned by it's weird, multilayered cloud formations (gas giants do have a lot of clouds in FE2).
I want to be able to slingshot around Saturn, then activate the drives and settle down under the orange-red skies of Titan. And as years before in FE2 I want to see massive ringed globe when I look up.

YES Absolutely DraQ you hit the nail on the head, and it was that which was missing in later, "prettier" games. And if I have to sacrifice DX10 WXSGA quality to achieve that....well, there's imagination. Green wifeframe Elite was more immersive and more believable than Freelancer et al to me. Our brains can fill in the details if the basics are right. (Ok the pretty stuff is nice too...but space is basically black, and if it is stuffed with unlikely nebulae everywhere [X series] because the makers are scared of us having a 5 second attention span it loses reality).