Proposal Discussion To the pilot in the Eagle with high-level guns camping Federal Distress...

[Lobstris]

I felt sorry for a guy in an Eagle yesterday in the Federal Distress Zone, he popped in an chose a side without looking, and had three Sidewinders, an Eagle and a Cobra finish him in <3 seconds.

Could have been suicidal, stupid or with cojones the size of I-Boötis' contact binary I suppose...

 

[Katkon]

I fly an Eagle and use gimbaled pulse lasers and missiles. I've spent time in the federal distress signal area as recently as an hour ago. No idea whether you were a victim, but if you were it is simply because you were flagged as an enemy.

An hour prior I was minding my own business when out of nowhere I had a Sidewinder on my tail. I tried to outmaneuver, and succeeded, but then I made the mistake of turning into him and he rammed me, and I blew up. It was quite epic. The shields/hull on the Eagle seem paper thin compared to a Sidewinder. Not sure if he blew up.

The Eagle is great for quickly swooping in and out at speed, but head-on with a Sidewinder can often spell death. If I equip 3 pulse lasers they overheat almost instantly - so 3 lasers are largely unusable. With missiles, it takes time to get a lock. So in 8 of 10 situations I'm stuck with 2 working lasers - just like a Sidewinder, and certainly what feels like a thinner shield/hull, though I have speed and maneuverability on my side.

On top of that - for some inexplicable reason - my lasers like to stop working frequently for no particular reason (but only on the Eagle, not in a Sidewinder - even with full power in Weapons, and full "power" in available lasers). I get much longer, more reliable and sustained laser bursts from a Sidewinder.

I picked the Eagle for speed and occasional use of missiles. But it's not a massively superior ship. In fact, generally speaking, he who sees the enemy first - and lands the first shot - tends to win the battle, whether it be a Sidewinder attacking an Eagle or vice versa.

Short of the long: I've been killed by Sidewinders in an Eagle. And I've destroyed Eagles in a Sidewinder. Timing, positioning, skill and a bit of luck outweigh ships/equipment when it comes to these 2 ships.

 

[Thygrrr]

...well done. You killed me in my brand new sidewinder in <3 seconds. Congratulations.

To everyone else:

If we have "starting zones" where PvP kills are paid in proportion to killer/killee levels, then we avoid situations where Mr. Eagle and all his like manage to **** off new players who spend 10 mins flying into an area, 16 seconds in the new area, 3 seconds in "combat" (read: being a paper target) with Mr. Eagle and are then dead. I can't see this going down well when the game is finally released to those less dedicated than the Alpha/Premium Beta backers.

PvP griefing should be a part of this game, but I think in the "starting" zones killing a player wayyyyyyyy beneath your own level should provide significant diminishing returns. You can have six credits, Mr. Eagle, in line with the effort expended.

All is fair in war and love.

Solution a: Fly to another zone. Always scout the battlefield before you join.

Solution b: Scout which faction he is and choose the same.

I am very much against artificial rules to deter griefing. He's not doing it for the money, anyway.

 

[Dynamo]

Well, in the final game he will be promptly flagged as a griefer and stuck into griefers hell with the rest of his kind.
Btw, I think he just opened a thread in beta support forum saying that he got no bounty on his head by killing friendly commanders.
So he was 'testing' stuff.

Hmmm. Your response troubles me slightly.

The Eagle was playing fair by all accounts - saw an enemy ship, and neutralised the threat. I would do the same.

In fact I have just spent almost 2 hours doing the same in my Eagle - I was killed once, yet I managed to kill 9 other human players (along with a fair few NPCs)- all fighting for the Federation, while I was teamed up with the other guys. If I did not remove the threat - they would attack me - most tried.

Yet, if you were in that zone, and we went head to head - you would report me for griefing, and then I risk being put into the group of people who are actual griefers (i.e. ramming in ports)?

It is concerning how a lot of people on the forums shout "GRIEFER!" when it is just playing the game.


As many people have said - learn to control the situations - scout the area (I would never attack a yellow - but I am very wary of them, and keep an eye on their movement) - See what force is currently dominating and join them - or if you fancy a fight, join the opposing faction - it is somewhat exciting to learn you have joined the other faction, then decide to run away, or fight for your corner!

 

[Dynamo]

I am very much against artificial rules to deter griefing. He's not doing it for the money, anyway.

I agree - although I don't think he was griefing. Can you remember their name initial poster? I wasn't playing until 22:00 GMT, but just played for almost 2 hours mainly in the distress area in my Eagle.

Perhaps I am a griefer by killing enemy ships, but I don't think so, just part of the game. Although I am actually doing it for the money - as I want to trade efficiently - and need more space - hence fighting for the cash for a Cobra.

 

[Arindor]

I've been to the Federal distress signal and have destroyed ships from both sides (in two different sessions), but I received no bounty for either. The blue triangle came upon the info screen (top right), but no value. How do you get money from this scenario?

 

[number2301]

Hang on, am I understanding this right? Op went to a war zone, chose a faction, then complained about being killed? That isn't briefing, it's a natural outcome of going into a war zone with a rubbish ship.

Elite doesn't have starter zones, it isn't a rollercoaster mmo (or really any kind of mmo at all). It's a living breathing galaxy with threats, conflicts, and opportunities for profit. You can't just expect to go out in basically the worst ship available and not get your area handed to you.

 

[mkennedy026]

Hang on, am I understanding this right? Op went to a war zone, chose a faction, then complained about being killed? That isn't briefing, it's a natural outcome of going into a war zone with a rubbish ship.

Elite doesn't have starter zones, it isn't a rollercoaster mmo (or really any kind of mmo at all). It's a living breathing galaxy with threats, conflicts, and opportunities for profit. You can't just expect to go out in basically the worst ship available and not get your area handed to you.

That pretty much is my take on it as well. Seems the first one to post in the forums is NOT the 'griefer'.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I've been to the Federal distress signal and have destroyed ships from both sides (in two different sessions), but I received no bounty for either. The blue triangle came upon the info screen (top right), but no value. How do you get money from this scenario?

i did that at 1st mate too. you must have forgotten to assign yourself you a team. (in ship right hand menu select your faction)

 

[Zero]

Whenever I see a superior ship in Federal Distress, I go cold and sneak up behind him, then go hot and unload. getting the jump on a superior ship is key.

 

[Commander M.O.]

I think the real solution here is to NOT have static encounters that people can sit at (camp) all day and gank/grief people at.

Make the universe fluid. Move events around and keep players moving around and you will eliminate this style of griefing. Don't create static lucrative locations for people to exploit.

For testing I can see it but, in the game proper you can make it hard for griefers by having a dynamic opportunities rather than static camp zones.

 

[neogeo]

I think the real solution here is to NOT have static encounters that people can sit at (camp) all day and gank/grief people at.

Make the universe fluid. Move events around and keep players moving around and you will eliminate this style of griefing. Don't create static lucrative locations for people to exploit.

For testing I can see it but, in the game proper you can make it hard for griefers by having a dynamic opportunities rather than static camp zones.

This.

I wonder if I was the eagle player? If you are red I shoot sorry dude. Those darn sidewinders are tanks and seem to be really effective at ramming, well at least I say now two blown up eagles later..

 

[RecklessPrudence]

I haven't earned my way to an Eagle yet, and from what you guys are saying I'm wondering if perhaps I might stay in my dinky little Sidewinder until I can afford a Cobra - maybe trade some Gold once I get the money, rather than buying myself a manoeuvrable combat ship with paper for shields when my combat style is much more "rock with a hammer".

But whenever I'm in a combat instance and I see another player on the opposite side, I actively avoid shooting at them - just seems common courtesy, we're all trying to make a living, we just happened to pick opposing sides. If they fire at me, I attempt to make them regret it, but that means I'm ceding the initiative by default - but at the same time, I don't want to be preferentially targeting someone who might have just booted up for the first time in their Sidewinder and went somewhere to earn some cash to trade, or hitting someone in their shiny new ship that they only have enough cash left for one or two insurance premiums - because while people say that you'd be an idiot to buy a ship without a cushion for insurance, what if you left a cushion, but people keep preferentially targeting you? Or did a seemingly-lucrative cargo run that turned bad, paid your premium and are now hunting easy combat bonds to get yourself back in the game? Just feels like I'd be being a bit of a ******* to shoot someone attempting to turn their luck around.

That said, if I'm in a Cobra or something, later on, and I'm just pootling around in a combat zone blasting NPCs, and you light me up but I survive to turn guns on you - I'm going to do my level best to make you regret it.

 

[Arindor]

i did that at 1st mate too. you must have forgotten to assign yourself you a team. (in ship right hand menu select your faction)

Thanks Commander!

 

[Slone]

I'm in an eagle since yesterday, thanks to the grinding provided by those conflict area, so that wasn't me killing you the other day.

My personal philosophy is to NOT engage human pilots unless they've engaged me. And even then, when they decide to flee (and if I realize that they are fleeing), I will usually let them go and have their sigh of relief.

That being said, when I started testing those conflict zones in a sidewinder, and as the unexperienced pilot that I was, I quickly realized I had to stay away until there was no human player in the opposite side. So that's what I had been doing until I didn't care of losing my ships, which happens after a while, when you have enough credits. I would advise you the same. Don't tempt them, they want easy target and they will use you as one whenever they can ! Virtual rapists !

 

[Zero]

The Federal Distress Signal should have a companion event - the federation Backup convoy.

The distress event should last until the dreadnought is destroyed (and we should be able to help destroy it!) or until the back up gets there, fixes the dreadnought, and they all warp out. So it's max a few hour event.

 

[gazzareth]

To be fair after my experiences this week if I come across an opposing human player, then that is who I am going to kill first. Not going to cede the initiative again, may be harsh but it IS a combat zone.

Might change when we get comms and can make an agreement as to PVP or not....

G

 

[Kungfu]

just got ganked for the first time by an eagle or cobra

now I am right back at square 1

I don't think i'll be playing very much more of this game

i'm sure the guy who killed me had a blast but for me it was so devastating that I am going to quit the game for a while.

not quite the best design for player retention

the only thing being tested here is my patience

 

[Asp Explorer]

If you are having trouble with other players, you can always block them in beta at your router / firewall level.

I don't advise doing this, I have absolutely no idea what effect it has on anyone else. I'd quite like to know FD's take on this.

 

[Suul Vellumcore]

just got ganked for the first time by an eagle or cobra

now I am right back at square 1

I don't think i'll be playing very much more of this game

i'm sure the guy who killed me had a blast but for me it was so devastating that I am going to quit the game for a while.

not quite the best design for player retention

This may sound silly, but after watching a couple of lighthearted vids - the one from that Texas-drawled American dude called (I think) Death of a Pilot, and a couple from that hilarious, Monty Pythonesque Englishman... I think his handle is 'Commander Captain' - I completely changed my view on how I approach this beta. No more getting all mad and raging when ganked. Now I just laugh about it and have fun, expecting and not minding getting blown to kingdom come. In fact, I'd like to thank those guys for helping me get in the right frame of mind. Perhaps you might consider lightening up, not take things so personally, checking out those vids, and just have a ball. To be sure, in that frame of mind tonight, I wracked up over 15,000 cr. If I can do it, anybody can.