Ship Transfer Costs - These Prices are Nutty!

[CMDR zzz]

Since we got no real answers from Frontier why they decided to make those times still a bit too long AND those much too high prices it feels like just being punished for our vote.

There is no reason to use this feature because the price to transfer ships can't be earned in that time. For me it will not be used as long as those prices are as they are.They offered it as qol and we would still like to get a qol feature.

 

[sos4biz]

You didn't write about what I'm about to say, and I'm cribbing from other posts here, so don't take this personally. The following is all opinion.

The 'lore' explanation for what's going on doesn't make sense in the 'realism' arena. The first thing that would happen, were a player able to (or a real economy existed) is that a competing service like Uber or what have you would instantly start up, that would save both time and money - time because most of the time you could exploit your ship's jump range (which afaict is never as slow as the barge), money because holy moley is it expensive now.

This 'lore' is a contrivance to justify a gameplay mechanic, not the other way around.

Personally I literally do not care if it's a barge, a valet, or whatever. A literal jump for more than a symbolic credit cost makes the feature worthless to me as the opportunity cost is simply too high. I will always compare the barge's performance to what is actually interactable with in game - in this instance, the time it takes to jump, and the jump distance of the ship I'm looking to transfer are what makes it worthless. To me, instead of a QoL feature that would enable me to take missions from next door in my capable ship, or whatnot (I'm a very localized player, rarely stray from a 50ly radius) costs both too much time and too much money - and I'm a billionaire.

If the counter argument is simply 'well don't use it then' then I urge FDev to come up with a rationale and justification for the costs of ship transfer, much in the vein of other companies, so that we understand and have a reference to point at. Otherwise, simply saying 'don't use it' to me feels like a waste of a game mechanic and development time, if the use case is so niche that it'll hardly see any use.

Edit: If it helps to see my point, replace instances of 'jump range' with simply 'jumps' because that's how I view the time cost of travel - how many loading screens I'm about to suffer through to get to where I'm going. I will simply never decouple the ship I want and its jump range from the time it takes.

Edit 2: The table above seems a lot more reasonable and closer to what I'd expect the feature to cost.

Exactly right, well said.

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Since we got no real answers from Frontier why they decided to make those times still a bit too long AND those much too high prices it feels like just being punished for our vote.

There is no reason to use this feature because the price to transfer ships can't be earned in that time. For me it will not be used as long as those prices are as they are.They offered it as qol and we would still like to get a qol feature.

Yes agreed.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Like most shipping the cost is influenced by the value of the item, the size/mass of the item and the distance it has to be shipped.

The problem with the transfer cost calculation that I suspect FDev is using is that the cargo value (i.e. ship cost) is a fixed sum that is being multiplied across the distance travelled. I'm pretty sure they aren't taking ship mass into account, and so the transfer costs for the more valuable ships are just plain stupid.

A real shipping company would take cargo value into account only in terms of its insurance policy, which would be a fixed sum, in addition to the shipping cost for the journey that would comprise the overall ticket price. So something like:

Transfer cost (Cr) = Ship Value x Fraction (e.g. 1%) + Fixed Price per Ly per unit mass x Ship Mass x Ly Distance (or number of jumps, depending on whether the service is a transport barge or ship Valet)

 

[Azathoth]

Since we got no real answers from Frontier why they decided to make those times still a bit too long AND those much too high prices it feels like just being punished for our vote.

There is no reason to use this feature because the price to transfer ships can't be earned in that time. For me it will not be used as long as those prices are as they are.They offered it as qol and we would still like to get a qol feature.

The prices were going to be higher for instant transfer. You must be like the 3rd person who has said you're being punished with an optional service.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Transfering an Anaconda costs much more than transfering a Cobra. Hmmm. That must mean that flying the Anaconda either requires a bigger crew, or that it has a much smaller jump range, yeah? No? But it takes exactly the same amount of time. Oh, strike that then. I have no idea what's going on.

What is going on imho is a combination of at least four things:
1. a sizeable number of players have become richer and progressed further than FDev intended, v2.1 allowed that to happen
2. FDev do not recognise player time as a problem and they want you to progress slowly by design
3. they were concerned about making ship transfer too accessible e.g. journey in your Asp then call in your Corvette
4. FDev do not want players to get stuck in a rut of repeated gameplay just because some activity is particularly profitable

 

[Boomer Kay]

I'd put a spreadsheet together for the ship transfer costs I think should be more reasonable - especially given the fact that they aren't instant anymore.

Looks very useable and actually consistent.

Basing transport price purely (or at all) on ship value does not really make sense. The "immersion" argument is shooting itself in the foot. A heavier B-rated ship would be cheaper to transport than a lighter A rated one.

1. a sizeable number of players have become richer and progressed further than FDev intended, v2.1 allowed that to happen

That's why you implement actual money sinks. If rich players want to ship their entire fleet around with them and it costs 10 million per ship (of which they have a dozen or more), they're simply not going to ship their entire fleet - and probably not even the one ship that costs 10 million, since it has such a huge delay and flying there and getting it is faster and free.
If shipping their entire fleet around costs them 100k-1mio per ship and they end up with 10 million total cost, they are more likely to consider spending that kind of money, since effectively, they have their entire fleet around.

 

[NeilF]

I'd put a spreadsheet together for the ship transfer costs I think should be more reasonable - especially given the fact that they aren't instant anymore.

I based my proposal on number of jumps (assuming the ship transporters will simply pilot the ship they are transporting) and ship mass (instead of ship cost). Basing in on ship cost makes no sense to me, as an in-universe shipping and logistics company would be concerned with distance and the mass of the cargo to be shipped. It's value would not come into it, outside of their own insurance policy that they as a company would take out - which itself would be a mere fraction of the cost of the cargo and wouldn't be directly passed on to the customer for each contract, provided the shipping company wanted to remain competitive in the market.

http://i.imgur.com/turoejN.jpg

Definately more along the lines of what I was imagining... Maybe not quite so cheap, but close...

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Since we got no real answers from Frontier why they decided to make those times still a bit too long AND those much too high prices it feels like just being punished for our vote.

There is no reason to use this feature because the price to transfer ships can't be earned in that time. For me it will not be used as long as those prices are as they are.They offered it as qol and we would still like to get a qol feature.

I think they went for the safe option which was start off with a punitive system as the polls suggested, monitor its use then adjust it later. Imho the prices will change but the delays not.

 

[sos4biz]

Well as we now have crew members, how about getting one of them to collect the ship for you with the costs of the transfers from CMDRCHORUSLINDARR list and make that crew member unavailable until the transfer has been completed.

 

[Sans Daring]

Since we got no real answers from Frontier why they decided to make those times still a bit too long AND those much too high prices it feels like just being punished for our vote.

There is no reason to use this feature because the price to transfer ships can't be earned in that time. For me it will not be used as long as those prices are as they are.They offered it as qol and we would still like to get a qol feature.

It still remains a qol feature. You don't have to travel vast distances, buy a sidey, travel back, and repeat. That is the Qol function - you can now simply transfer existing ships without an awkward workaround or a tedious repeat. Qol of life doesn't mean free. By that logic, my quality of life would be vastly improved (and potentially maximised) as a trader if I had a larger hold. Having to work to get the money to get a fully equipped Anaconda affects my quality of life as it's not easy and I have to earn it. You've got ship transfer, you just have to ensure you can cover the cost as you would with any other cost in the game.

There are some good arguments for a better cost function here, I have no issue with that sort of mediation over price. I do think the suggestion that things should be cheap equating to some expectation on QOL doesn't follow.

 

[Boomer Kay]

I think they went for the safe option which was start off with a punitive system as the polls suggested, monitor its use then adjust it later. Imho the prices will change but the delays not.

That's not the "safe" option, that's the option to annoy players. See Engineers, which they haven't actually fixed, just made less punitive - it's still annoying, though .. everytime I have to empty my cargohold of those collected rare commodities.

 

[sos4biz]

It still remains a qol feature. You don't have to travel vast distances, buy a sidey, travel back, and repeat. That is the Qol function - you can now simply transfer existing ships without an awkward workaround or a tedious repeat. Qol of life doesn't mean free. By that logic, my quality of life would be vastly improved (and potentially maximised) as a trader if I had a larger hold. Having to work to get the money to get a fully equipped Anaconda affects my quality of life as it's not easy and I have to earn it. You've got ship transfer, you just have to ensure you can cover the cost as you would with any other cost in the game.

There are some good arguments for a better cost function here, I have no issue with that sort of mediation over price. I do think the suggestion that things should be cheap equating to some expectation on QOL doesn't follow.

I agree, but currently, the transfer costs are not relational to any aspect of the game (even more so long distances), as previously said, I do not have a problem with the delay just the price.

 

[careBear1]

. I do think the suggestion that things should be cheap equating to some expectation on QOL doesn't follow.

I think it follows precisely. Out of game mechanic to get rid of unnecessary jumpy, jumpy, jumpy time sink. Perhaps limited by frequency of use/time delay to prevent significant unintended game effects.

 

[mGtRd]

Me and my wingman went to JAQUES with two identical anacondas . With the 2.2 update the cost for him to transfer it into the bubble was circa 400m and mine 622m . Difference between the transfer points in the bubble was 1 jump! The cost/reward to remotelly sell was for him 160m and mine was 222m for two identical ships..

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Me and my wingman went to JAQUES with two identical anacondas . With the 2.2 update the cost for him to transfer it into the bubble was circa 400m and mine 622m . Difference between the transfer points in the bubble was 1 jump! The cost/reward to remotelly sell was for him 160m and mine was 222m for two identical ships..

He likely bought his ship and modules with a 15% discount and you did not. An Anaconda doesn't cost that much to move for 1 jump, even a 58ly one.

 

[bitstorm]

That's not the "safe" option, that's the option to annoy players. See Engineers, which they haven't actually fixed, just made less punitive - it's still annoying, though .. everytime I have to empty my cargohold of those collected rare commodities.

A few annoyed players isn't really much of an issue though. I mean let's be honest some people are so emotionally invested it's now almost an inevitability.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Ok so I revised my proposed ship transport prices to take into account ship value as a fixed sum (to cover the shipper's insurance/armed escort contract). This one is based on a pure Ly distance, assuming the transfer is done using a transport barge, rather than the shipper piloting your ship directly:

 

[sos4biz]

Ok so I revised my proposed ship transport prices to take into account ship value as a fixed sum (to cover the shipper's insurance/armed escort contract). This one is based on a pure Ly distance, assuming the transfer is done using a transport barge, rather than the shipper piloting your ship directly:

http://i.imgur.com/KEkjMzK.jpg

Still looks good to me. (didn't see the Beluga ?)

 

[Boomer Kay]

A few annoyed players isn't really much of an issue though.

Well, we had a poll and 70% are in favour of more reasonable transfer cost.
Are you trying to flip-flop now?

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Still looks good to me. (didn't see the Beluga ?)

Cheers, I used Coriolis.io to get the prices and mass values. It hasn't been updated to include the big boi yet. Will log into Elite directly to get them and update.