ED 2.2 Neutron Stars. Do they turn/change orientation?

[Jackie Silver]

Interesting. Just downloading 2.2 now and I didn't try it out in beta. I have no particular interest (for the present) in using the boost potential of neutron stars, but I have always been reasonably comfortable when the route plotter accidentally took me to one of the nasty little hot invisible swine. Are they now so dangerous that I should avoid them entirely?

 

[osser]

Jackie there's several commanders over in the bug forums that have pulled the plug on the game with their ships taking massive damage because they cant escape the cone.
They are seconds away from losing their ships.

For me I'm staying away from them until i see some sort of resolution.

There are commanders who have successfully escaped though.

With 11 months and 12500 systems scanned there's no way I'm gonna risk it.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I really hope FD thoroughly investigate these people who have been forced out of supercruise and see if there is indeed a bug at play.

I would hate FD to pander to the horror stories and arbitrarily nerf the dangers, because the rewards of NS jumping are there for all, and can be awesome : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Highway-Grid?p=4695154&viewfull=1#post4695154

You die if you deliberately exit SC in the plume, or it can occur if you fail to zero the throttle and don't immediately orientate yourself away from the NS as you exit hyperspace, as you can hit the drop out zone in seconds on some neutrons. Maybe people are too memorized by the pretty light show that they don't turn away as soon as they enter the system? Those 30 km/s you're traveling can put you on top of a NS in no time if you're not careful.

So yeah, FD have a good look at the logs of those who've submitted bugs and are dying in the cones, and please don't do anything hasty if its working as intended.


You're supposed to be in world of hurt if you drop out of SC in the jet. If you drop out because of a bug, fair enough, fix it and reimburse. If you drop out because of pilot error - then you have no cause to complain.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Please, before posting inaccurate information check first. Most explorers know that upon exiting the hyperspace on a NS/WD your throttle needs to be zero. The problem is not the throttle. The problem is that you land inside the jet cone facing the star at 0.22 Ls away. And the cone sucks you in, you hit the exclusion zone, you drop from SC facing the star and all hell breaks lose. If you fancy you can read this:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/301794-How-not-to-NS-Charge

where the commander entered the cone *away* from the star, facing the star and was sucked in. Perhaps you'd like to read this:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...utron-Star-cone-about-to-lose-ship-(PC-Reset)

To reiterate, throttling down is *not* the issue. Landing straight into the cone when exiting hyperspace facing the star is. You may be skilled enough to escape but not everyone is. Not everyone has escaped. And when you risk weeks/months/years of data on a broken mechanic that is not fair then it goes too far.

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You argument is a fallacy because you assume that random behaviour is always avoidable. It's okay for you to have fun because you chose to. It's not okay for me to be denied all and every access to NS/WD (which is what filtering out in the Galaxy Map does) because of something I have no control over and did not chose to do.

I've read both linked reports you posted there Rhea. One admits he didn't zero his throttle and hints he was 'sucked in to the NS'. That's what seems to happen if you don't zero the throttle as even traveling at 50 km/s instead of 30 can eat up your reaction time.

The other admits he dropped out of 'wake' (I assume he means SC) inside the jet. What did he expect to happen?


I'm not saying there isn't a bug a play in some of these cases, I'm sure there is. But I would hate to see such an awesome high risk vs high reward mechanic lose some of its risk due to horror stories that have no merit. Because if that happens this awesome mechanic will become another gimmick in an instant. The balance is perfect at the moment. Never thought I'd say this, but I hope there is a bug at play here with these stories, because at least that can be fixed.

 

[Sylar N7]

I'm a complete noob on so much of this so bear that in mind...

CMDR's are jumping into WD and NS systems INSIDE the jet cones? Isn't that very bad?

I'm still completely new on the FSD Supercharging boost. I have no idea how it works but I know that traveling inside those cones would likely mean death.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I'm a complete noob on so much of this so bear that in mind...

CMDR's are jumping into WD and NS systems INSIDE the jet cones? Isn't that very bad?

I'm still completely new on the FSD Supercharging boost. I have no idea how it works but I know that traveling inside those cones would likely mean death.

Not necessarily. Ending up in the jet after a hyperspace can often be dealt with as long as you stay in supercruise, zero throttle, and orientate away from the star asap. But dropping out of supercruise while inside the jet does mean potential death.

Death occurs if you drop out of SC by a deliberate act or by getting too close to the drop out zone of the NS, or by an apparent bug (as some have reported).


Edit: Ok, did some checking..
The bug could be this feature not working as intended :

From the 2.2 patch notes "- When hyperspacing to a star with jet cones, avoid potential danger regions at the poles"

Maybe the issue players have experienced are that these danger regions are bugged and not being detected, hence players ending up in them and being thrown out of SC by no fault of their own.

 

[Section47ABH]

Find it amusing that NS's are more dangerous than Black holes...which you can pretty much fly into (well the event horizon and ergosphere at least). Visited P Puppis after jumping near it from Jackson's Lighthouse and it's errm.....much safer...that's to say..

Well, a body that emits horrible jets of burny stuff* is going to be more dangerous than a body that's emitting in the millikelvin range if it's big enough to last more than a cosmic eyeblink.





*If this is not a technical astronomical term, it damned well ought to be.

 

[jenos]

From the 2.2 patch notes "- When hyperspacing to a star with jet cones, avoid potential danger regions at the poles"

Maybe the issue players have experienced are that these danger regions are bugged and not being detected, hence players ending up in them and being thrown out of SC by no fault of their own.

I believe this is the problem people are talking about. I can agree that it's a problem, but I'd rather see the drop distance from Neutrons and WDs increased than see ANY changes to the mechanics of the jets

 

[Cmdr Frawd Digger]

While I am sorry to hear that people are dying from NS/WD bugs that plant them into the jets as soon as they enter a system...(condolences...especially to those who lost months of data...aaaggh)

I am really happy to hear that some stars are finally becoming deadly as they should be. Now I am just waiting for black holes to become deadly...although I am not sure how FD would handle this because theoretically anybody flying past the event horizon should be irretrievable (character lost forever).

Frawd

 

[Zannry]

For the last 3 nights I've explored Neutron Stars without incident. During that time I have exited from hyperspace directly into a plume 7 times in approximately 100 NS jumps. So far, I've experienced no issues by throttling to zero before the new instance loads.

With that said, I'm convinced I've been lucky. From what I have seen there is a large variation in Neutron Star intensity. High Intensity neutron stars emit a plume 16-17ls in length. Average Intensity stars plumes are significant smaller between 3-5 ls. When you enter a system with a Neutron star and have throttled to zero you arrive at .22-.23 ls.

My experience so far is that even upon entering a system directly facing the plume, average to low intensity stars will startle you but not kill you. I think, all commanders that have experienced instant death upon entering a system even after throttling to zero have run afoul of a high Intensity Neutron star coupled with entering directly into the plume.

Based on my experiences, entering the plume directly is around 7% of my jumps. High Intensity neutron stars perhaps 2%. Both factors I suspect have to be present for death to occur without human error. So far I've been lucky. I'm convinced their is a risk however, the risk is quite low for a single jump.

I've added some images from tonight to give you an idea of the plume edge and scale of difference between Neutron Stars.

High Intensity Plume Edge (16.5ls)

Average Intensity Plume Edge (2.93ls)

High Intensity Scale (157ls)

High Intensity Scale (24.9ls)

High Intensity Scale (.23ls)

Average Intensity Scale (16.4ls)

Average Intensity Scale (.22s)

Low Intensity Scale (4.74ls)

 

[Andrew Gaspurr]

Hey folks,

after having sold my exploration data at Polo Harbour I spent some time in a small neutron field between Polo and Gagarin and I have made the same experience as Zanny. What I got on several occasions upon hyper exit was the message "FSD operating at dangerous capacity" but that was it.

 

[osser]

Erimus " such an awesome high risk vs high reward mechanic lose some of its risk due to horror stories that have no merit. Because if that happens this awesome mechanic will become another gimmick in an instant"

Let's define Risk. Risk means I have a choice. Do I Take the Risk to go into the cone to supercharge... Or do I not.
Yes I think that's pretty clear.
Well it seems to me that we have a mechanic that there is no choice!
Jump into a NS / WD and guess what You are in the CONE. even though you had 0 throttle coming in.
In 2.1 and lower NS & WD's had very little leeway to get away from them. (I have taken most of my 81% hull damage from these) {19%}
Now I'm seeing commanders landing IN these cones and being sucked in and dis-oriented and dropped from SC. (with insane blue screens to where you can see nothing)
From there it goes to unfair.
FSD malfunctions.. then modules fail at an alarming rate... it's a death spiral.

Risk = yes, jump into a NS / WD system (Not landing in the cone) now it's my choice to scoop the cone at my own risk

I've made my stance clear in many posts.

Is jumping into cones / plumes INTENDED GAME PLAY?

If yes I'll be disappointed.


If no please fix it.

 

[Jackie Silver]

I'm staring at one right now (it's a secondary star in 67 OPHIUCHI, which I was visiting anyroad) and it looks like the real danger from them is hypnosis and/or psychosis, 'cause I'm like to go all Macey if I look at this bluesilver spinning thing for long... ^^

 

[jenos]

I've just exited witchspace into a cone, and I agree this should be changed. Rather than doing some really weird, shift-to-the-side thing that inevitably bugs out, they need to simply increase the drop range to something like 5-10 Ls (maybe more for WDs, I'm not sure how far their cones extend).

 

[jenos]

Possible fix incoming

Thanks for getting back to me. I'm really sorry to hear that this has happened again. I've gone ahead and moved you to Jaques.

Our team thinks they know what the issue is, and will be deploying a patch ASAP.

Sorry for the inconvenience caused by this!

 

[Tarrakis]

I've just exited witchspace into a cone, and I agree this should be changed. Rather than doing some really weird, shift-to-the-side thing that inevitably bugs out, they need to simply increase the drop range to something like 5-10 Ls (maybe more for WDs, I'm not sure how far their cones extend).

That is more than the drop distance for most main sequence stars - this is not a solution IMO...if this is indeed a bug, then they just need to fix it rather than adjust the existing game mechanics.

 

[saulscmit]

I really hope FD thoroughly investigate these people who have been forced out of supercruise and see if there is indeed a bug at play.

I would hate FD to pander to the horror stories and arbitrarily nerf the dangers, because the rewards of NS jumping are there for all, and can be awesome : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Highway-Grid?p=4695154&viewfull=1#post4695154

I agree. It seems as though it is a bug as it's mentioned in the change log & staff have said they're "looking into it"/trying to fix it. 5 seconds of no wobble and dropping a decent distance away from the Body Exclusion zone, is the best fix here to be honest. Gives you a fighting chance to turn away & get the hell out. It's like fighting an interdiction somewhat if you're not point at the star.

I am really happy to hear that some stars are finally becoming deadly as they should be. Now I am just waiting for black holes to become deadly...although I am not sure how FD would handle this because theoretically anybody flying past the event horizon should be irretrievable (character lost forever).

I think that Perma Death is a bit unfair, and David Braben made this clear in the AMA Reddit a few days ago. Something like this won't happen. Spinning Black holes should also give a boost of some sort due to the Ergosphere and the Penrose Effect, but the potential of being pulled in should be greater than an NS or WD (with WD less than the NS).

We have an FSD/FTL drives too. I don't think it's impossible for us to "escape" a BH. If shields hold out, radiation & the tidal shear forces wouldn't be too much of an issue. If you lose shields though in a BH event horizon, I do think you should die a horrible, spaghetti like death

That said, NS should pull you towards them from all angles if you're in their, close, sphere of influence. They could give 5 seconds of no wobble to allow you to orientate away from the star and boost the hell out too. Would be the best fix and wouldn't require changing anything, imho.

 

[jenos]

That is more than the drop distance for most main sequence stars - this is not a solution IMO...if this is indeed a bug, then they just need to fix it rather than adjust the existing game mechanics.

Well, you get the point; just make is so we drop in farther than the cones extend. Most neutrons are scannable at 6 Ls anyway, so that's all of 4 Ls you have to travel to scan it. And WDs are scannable well before that.

 

[Jackie Silver]

We have an FSD/FTL drives too. I don't think it's impossible for us to "escape" a BH. If shields hold out, radiation & the tidal shear forces wouldn't be too much of an issue. If you lose shields though in a BH event horizon, I do think you should die a horrible, spaghetti like death

All they need do is black-box it: there is something about a Frameshift drive which reacts unpredictably (read, for instance, as: your ship is damaged and flung across the system) if it gets too close to a black hole's event horizon. It's an opportunity to do something fun, and we don't need to worry overmuch about what would "really" happen when our physics-breaking ships run into a physics-breaking hole in the wibbly-wobbly continuum.

(edited to add)

I suppose I shouldn't say physics-breaking. Physics is physics is physics and does what it does regardless of what we think it should do, save (if you're that way inclined) for acts of Goddess. Except that in this case we're making up the physics, so I suppose we can break something of our own creation...

 

[mls]

I've read both linked reports you posted there Rhea. One admits he didn't zero his throttle and hints he was 'sucked in to the NS'. That's what seems to happen if you don't zero the throttle as even traveling at 50 km/s instead of 30 can eat up your reaction time.

Actually i entered the cone at 50km/s and killed my throttle the moment i realized that i accelerated. acceleration continued for 5 or 6 seconds until i hit the exclusion border around the star at 0.5c, all the time being at zero throttle.
The timer said something of 35min when i was floating in front of the cone before i throttled up to enter it so it's not just a matter of seconds even at 50 or 30 km/s ;-)