As well as the odd sting, you've also received a ****-ton of actual feedback on 'why favouritism?'. Has any of that changed your perspective?
Special Treatment & Favouritism?
- Thread starter Cosmos
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As well as the odd sting, you've also received a ****-ton of actual feedback on 'why favouritism?'. Has any of that changed your perspective?
How is this a bad thing ? What does it change for you that others have cosmetic bonus because they participate in something that bring more lore to the game ? It's actually a nice thing and i would like to see that in other games too.
As for ObsidianAnt, i find it nice that they gave his name to a station, he makes great videos and why not being nice with him ?! it could have been you if you have spent hours and hours making those videos.
(i have not gain any cosmetic bonuses)
I understand the case for rewarding players and groups and the rational behind it but still I can't shake off the underlying impression I have. I was hesitant to site particular cases because ironically I do think certain cases are merit worthy. Still, it doesn't make it right.
I'll most likely ask the moderators to close the thread shortly since it went south pretty fast and I don't think its possible to have a constructive discussion about it particuarly given the torrent of abuse I've received. I suppose I'll just stick to saying palatable and agreeable things from now on. I mean who cares if the game is fair? lol [haha]
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Didn't know FD named a station after Obsidian Ant. Good for them and him. More developers should do this sort of thing.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Not to mention that the station name was VOTED FOR by the community, so it wasn't Frontier's choice.
OK, so I have a few thoughts on this subject and I'm going to be as honest as I can. I don't agree with the argument of favouritism, this isn't as much a statement from Frontier but instead as myself and a gamer. Allow me to explain.
Let's look at all the groups that have their own decal for in-game activity. Distant Worlds, Fuel Rats and the Dangerous Games finalists. Any other decal that people seem to be suggesting that is in a folder is not in the game so we should probably not be jumping to conclusions about why they have one or details about how they will be used etc.
Distant worlds not only had a 1,000 man expedition to the other side of the galaxy, they also engaged the community in Elite Dangerous and the general gaming community so very much. Being at the top of reddit gaming for example. We felt that it would be a positive step to reward community groups who have outstanding achievement and effort with a small in game reward. Why not someone else? Because the decision was made at that time, it has to start somewhere. But this was something that (as we are seeing) we are able to do more of over time. We also tend to give these for one off activities rather an on-going decal for a group because of the admin tasks associated with it.
Fuel Rats, Not only did the Fuel Rats have a similar amount of effort and fame in-game and out of game. they had 10,000 rescues, the had their CG AND they took the charge in fuelling Jaques to make his jump which is now seeing the first steps of colonisation.
Dangerous Games: All the finalists had thousands of members who took part and the level of time required in the CGs was HUGE. Remember that any group could have taken part and put their name forward and we also informed people before the end of the games so any player could head out and get the decal if they wished.
Obsidian Orbital which you mentioned as an example was voted for by the community, we didn't pick it. But this does highlight exactly why it would not be possible for Frontier to select which groups should begin the colonisation out in Jaques. Sadly there will always be calls of favouritism and so we need a more open system which the community as a whole can pick.
There are a few reasons why I disagree with this way of thinking. First of all is the idea of "Frontier shouldn't do something to recognise efforts in their community because they are showing favouritism". I fundamentally disagree - I feel this is a perfect example of someone taking a negative view point on something that should be looked at positively. It’s really easy to look at something negatively or pick holes in something, it’s far easier to criticise than compliment, but that way of thinking only leads to us doing less and less. It truly is immobilizing. We need to look at how we do more to be a positive influence and to positively affect the game and community.
How many other games do this? Aside from the fact that games recognise their community through promoting people, groups and content ALL THE TIME, if they aren't doing it we should be proud to be leading the way. We should be saying "how many games have this level of recognition and involvement with their community?"
These groups aren't the first to get a decal, they won't be the last. It's not about favouritism, it's about opportunity. We have the opportunity to do something small but cool (I’m a poet and I didn’t know it) for some players, we should do that. We will get the opportunity to do more cool things for more players, we should do that too. We couldn't sit there and offer every group a decal, the amount of work would be far too much to do in one go.
I would also say that your point about "Why should we need to cosy up to Frontier in order to get our stuff in the game" is also flawed. For me this isn't about sucking up or worming your way in. We want to work with groups, video makers, content creators, people that run events and anyone who wants to make content (in game or out of game) that people enjoy. If people are passionate about making content then we want them to let us know and we want to work closely with them. That's not a negative, again, that is a positive. Working together means that we can promote events that players want to take part in, we can help new players in the game get connected to communities and make new friends and we can help connect groups creating their community content together so they can make more of their events. You don’t have to be involved with Frontier but are Frontier (by that I mean the CM team) going to be able to help promote your event better if you are working with us, talking to us and telling us what’s going on, course we will but that is definitely not having favourites.
TLDR: Let’s not make this a negative, it’s very easy to slip into that mode where we find faults in things, some people more than others. Constructive criticism is fine but we should also be positive about the fantastic community we have, people I am truly delighted to spend time with every event or meet up, and we should celebrate the amazing people surrounding Elite.
Even better. I've missed a lot in the last 7-8 months, good to see FD encouraging community involvement and the community recognizing and rewarding outstanding contributions.
No doubt Cannon are a fantastic group who have done so very much and they could likely be a group which get a decal for their community efforts in the future. There could be a number of reasons why they weren't in the folder. Remember that the folder if not content that is actually in game. It is in the code. but as I said in the post above, I would rather focus on the people who do have decals and why rather than speculation for this thread.
I'm not likely to get a decal anytime soon. I play by myself. I've spent hundreds of hours working on something that I thought would be pretty cool for Elite, but it's not what FD want so it's going nowhere. I took a very personal interest in a cool hill a year ago when my father died and FD "fixed" it.
I am part of Edward Lewis' indeterminately-numbered "38", though. And he's promised to buy me an ice cream. So that's something.
I am part of Edward Lewis' indeterminately-numbered "38", though. And he's promised to buy me an ice cream. So that's something.
While this may be true, I believe FD changed course on this to some extent. And you know why?
Because big groups of players wanted it!!
Umm, Yes.
And how is FD supposed to notice you if all you do is "just play the game"? While there is a large group of use that just play the game, we are a rather "quite" group. You want to be noticed? Get a bunch of like minded players with you. It's called a group.
LLaP
S1E
Sums it up nicely.
It would be pretty nice if we could just buy decals we like. For example, i kinda like the compass from one of DG finalists. I don't even remember who, but it's a nice compass.
I mean, sure, they deserved it and all. I would even get it by abusing DG CGs if the last one wasn't over in a few hours i was at work. But still. Sell us decals!
I mean, sure, they deserved it and all. I would even get it by abusing DG CGs if the last one wasn't over in a few hours i was at work. But still. Sell us decals!
Nice add Zac. I think it's inevitable that any comercial venture pays a level of homage to it's most loyal customers. In this case, we're talking about groups that are in alignment with FD's concept of the game going forward and that earns merit, quite fairly.
It's regularly recognised that criticism of the game is constructive, it identifies bugs and throws up new ideas. But there's also a sense of impatience towards the game if that isn't at phrased in a constructive way, as even constructive criticism is about "future-game" (make it this, make it that) and forgets the fact that the game is also being played (and marketed) right now.
Distant Worlds, Fuel Rats, Dangerous Games are endorsing the released game, as it exists in 2.2, not caring that it's a developing project. This is an endorsement that's helpful to any commercial venture, who's product is "present-game" and present day in the market place.
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- Qualify for the next Dangerous Games, either outright or as a wild card
- Participate with your members
I totally understand other groups want a decal. Completely.
But do you have a sense of how much work these groups put into the DG? Video content, acquiring ships, building up balances, and all of that was just before anything even started. Building alliances, and actually participating in it, in what were rather brutal tasks.
Also realize that not all group members get the decal: only those that actually contributed. And given that some of these tasks had a division of labor, we're not even sure everybody who helped got one.
Finally, none of us knew a decal might even be a reward when we started it all.
Unfair? Favoritism? "Arbitrarily giving special treatment and favours to certain people/groups" (really? really?) I have no idea what you're talking about
- Participate with your members
I totally understand other groups want a decal. Completely.
But do you have a sense of how much work these groups put into the DG? Video content, acquiring ships, building up balances, and all of that was just before anything even started. Building alliances, and actually participating in it, in what were rather brutal tasks.
Also realize that not all group members get the decal: only those that actually contributed. And given that some of these tasks had a division of labor, we're not even sure everybody who helped got one.
Finally, none of us knew a decal might even be a reward when we started it all.
Unfair? Favoritism? "Arbitrarily giving special treatment and favours to certain people/groups" (really? really?) I have no idea what you're talking about
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Very nicely put and thanks for taking the time to do so.
As for my comments about Canonn, it was just because as I said they had a decal designed long before anyone else, had been asking about it on occasion long ago, and have contributed to so much gameplay (not just with the UA, UP, Barnacle, Alien Ruins), always overlooked as a bunch of crazies though (probably fairly
) however they will never be able to do a single shining thing like 10,000 rescues, or flying across the galaxy...With the possible exception of being the group that discovers the thing that leads to us welcoming in our new alien overlords who enslave humanity... and let's face it no-ones going to give us a decal for that
*Edit* Though Patau has found some nice cats
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What would it take to rid you of this "impression"? You imply that FD's current cosmetic rewards for community contributions will lead to gameplay benefits being given to FD's "favourites" but there's no reason to think that will happen, is there?
I find this type of jealousy just silly. I am a part of a relatively decent sized player group, we have about 140 members with about 80 active any given week. That being said, we're just about playing the game how you want, with the only direction being laid out is our expansion efforts with our minor faction. We have a bit of lore sprinkled in, but over all the group is about just having fun as (near) independent players. I don't expect us to get an in game emblem. These other player groups and people you mentioned are adding not just a fun place for like minded players, but content to the game! Of course they deserve these little trinkets that don't affect the game in any way! I don't understand the mindset of "If I can't have it, no one should!" If that were the case, no one would be flying Cutters or Corvettes.
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