2.2 Instadeath because of wanted passengers

[xondk]

What skill? People are getting scanned and blasted just as they are clearing the slot after accepting the mission.
You guys crack me up with the lengths you will go to trying to explain away bugs and poor gameplay decisions.

It is possible to get out without getting scanned, the problem is wanted are higher paying so people get those, and do not realise or care that they are criminals. I am unsure what you are expecting to happen, you are carrying a wanted criminal a fine? and carry on?
The fix at least in my eyes, would be less likely to get passengers wanted to station faction?

 

[kofeyh]

I don't think so, the fact that they may have picked up wanted passengers does not mean the unlawful destruction of the ship and the murder of the remaining innocent passengers, at best a warning and hefty fine should have been given from the station they just left and the same (if they are still wanted) at the receiving station.

If you are wanted, the wages of sin is death; that's how the game works. It doesn't matter if the rest of your passengers are not wanted. In much the same way that it only takes one ship being attacked (not the entire instances) to trigger a crime. Context here is meaningless; at least, it always is, when the "stronger punishment for crime" skeleton is given the occasional shake? Maybe it is actually a little complicated; so maybe some considered thought is required?

Yes, I know. Kofeyh you're being silly. Bad people should always be punished, you are quite right.

Crime is complicated; unfortunately the game, and the AI, cannot really consider context. Merely one's state. If one is wanted, that's it. Lights out. Yes - a warning would be wise; but then one can simply abandon the mission in the time the warning is given, and effectively avoid consequence. So is that really to be encouraged? How do you induce risk without trivial absolvement?

Perhaps the mission description should carry a warning if there's additional risk to the commander; people can then make an informed decision. But I'm not sure Frontier necessarily wants to telegraph risk to commanders in all instances.

So perhaps it's a case of there being strong penalties for ditching a wanted passenger (you are, after all, aiding and abetting a wanted criminal) and tag the mission with a (apparently much clearer) warning of hostile actions. That'd strike me as a more reasonable outcome.

edit: the suggestion of handing over a perp after they become wanted is interesting, but why have criminals at all, as a risk vs reward mission, if you can trivially ditch them (either out the airlock, or dump them at the local constabulary). I think it's much more interesting that the commander is faced with an actual dilemma.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

We can see when we are ourself wanted at the system where we in?

What's about showing in the missionstatus if a passenger is wanted in the current system, which give at least the chance to abandon the mission before trying to dock and just eject this people?

Of course you need to check the passenger in the current system where you accepted the mission. So you can kick him out if he is wanted before undocking!

pls Fdev's show us the passenger wanted status somewhere or give us the chance to sell them as slaves.....

 

[CMDR Seron]

Remember when people kept asking for stronger punishment for crime? There were so many nodding heads, it looked like a death-metal mosh-pit.. lol.

Why are people complaining? All those "greifers" weren't supposed to get any warning either. Just instant hot death. I don't see the issue; this is precisely what has been asked for. Stiff penalties for crime, because bad people must be punished, regardless of context.

Even with a short delay, if you become involved in crime, regardless of context (because that never mattered when it was "other people" being "bad") you die. That's the law.

To be fair; AI have no concept of context. So this is pretty much bang on. Break the law. Die. Welcome to the 33rd century. It's a little rough.

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Can I quote this, the next time some idiot demands more punishment, for criminal acts? Because I feel that somehow, it manages to miss the entire point.

This is happening, in part, because people asked for it. Might be slightly buggy, but this is what harsher penalties for crime, essentially looks like. Be careful what you ask for.

Nonsense! This is not the point, never has been. Nobody is complaining that illegal acts lead to consequences, this is perfectly fine! We do not *want* to undertake illegal actions. But is almost impossible to do so, you get screwed non the less.

See my last post, burried in this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...d-passengers?p=4708792&viewfull=1#post4708792.

The "rich tourist mission" — it's a trap!

By the way: Are the "griefers" now instantly destroyed when they come to a station, loose all they have and are transferred to a mining colony untill they payed for all their crimes? No? Epic fail!

 

[kofeyh]

Nonsense! This is not the point, never has been. Nobody is complaining that illegal acts lead to consequences..

Yes they are. Might be some too-and-fro, but if you are wanted, you are shot at. Arguably the station opening fire without warning is new and a bit exciting. But this is just the result of crime. AI are blasted to pieces all the time for lollygaggin' and I don't see commanders up in arms about it.

So far I see a lot of people looking for ways to avoid the consequences; rather than why it's happening in the first place. Right down to "let me dump that wanted dude at a cop shop". You can't demand people are heavily punished, then complain when they are, then complain that "greifers" aren't punished enough - without looking rather silly.

Either there needs to be consequences for crime (since you seem hot on that topic) or there aren't. Having rules for some, and different rules for others? This is called bias.

Like I said, Frontier can make the mission type a little more obvious.

Perhaps provide people a decision tree; run the mission and accept the risk, or deliver the person to the original system the crime was reported in, with the station firing on commanders who dally within the station's confines for more than a very short period; if the person is wanted locally; then there needs to be an offset for the ease of offloading; large fine and a loss on the mission's payout.

There have to be consequences, otherwise it makes a mockery of your last statement.

 

[sos4biz]

If you are wanted, the wages of sin is death; that's how the game works. It doesn't matter if the rest of your passengers are not wanted. In much the same way that it only takes one ship being attacked (not the entire instances) to trigger a crime. Context here is meaningless; at least, it always is, when the "stronger punishment for crime" skeleton is given the occasional shake? Maybe it is actually a little complicated; so maybe some considered thought is required?

Yes, I know. Kofeyh you're being silly. Bad people should always be punished, you are quite right.

Crime is complicated; unfortunately the game, and the AI, cannot really consider context. Merely one's state. If one is wanted, that's it. Lights out. Yes - a warning would be wise; but then one can simply abandon the mission in the time the warning is given, and effectively avoid consequence. So is that really to be encouraged? How do you induce risk without trivial absolvement?

Perhaps the mission description should carry a warning if there's additional risk to the commander; people can then make an informed decision. But I'm not sure Frontier necessarily wants to telegraph risk to commanders in all instances.

So perhaps it's a case of there being strong penalties for ditching a wanted passenger (you are, after all, aiding and abetting a wanted criminal) and tag the mission with a (apparently much clearer) warning of hostile actions. That'd strike me as a more reasonable outcome.

edit: the suggestion of handing over a perp after they become wanted is interesting, but why have criminals at all, as a risk vs reward mission, if you can trivially ditch them (either out the airlock, or dump them at the local constabulary). I think it's much more interesting that the commander is faced with an actual dilemma.

You raise some good points, but the total destuction and loss of life is too extreame, maybe the station should inflict damage to a certain percentage and a fine, or maybe there should be other tale tell signs that you are picking up wanted passengers.

 

[kofeyh]

You raise some good points, but the total destuction and loss of life is too extreame, maybe the station should inflict damage to a certain percentage and a fine, or maybe there should be other tale tell signs that you are picking up wanted passengers.

Not really. If you accidentally shoot a cop? The entire security force will hunt you down in system and attempt to extract the penalty. Which is death. Being wanted is supposed to be no joke. You've transgressed, better find somewhere else to be until the heat dies down, or accept the consequences. Crime is very black and white in ED, because it has to be. AI have no concept of context. Just wanted, and clean. So again; there has to be a consequence for becoming wanted.

I can foresee frontier will likely remove the station firing on people (because this is, obviously, what is actually wanted) so people are free to jump out, without consequence and pay off the legacy fine if they feel like it; unless they are scanned on the way back again. Just like every other crime.

Like I said; it's really funny how it's always okay for punishment to be brutal - if it's someone else. Since there's a return trip for virtually all passenger missions, anyone who has this happen is automatically going to want to dump the passenger; which I think is a pretty trivial 'out'. Should be a bit more too it, than absolving responsibility because suddenly that fat pay check has risk.

 

[DoctorDanny]

In one of the other threads on this subject Mike allready stated that they will add the 'Passenger wanted' string to the warnings in the lower righthand part of the HUD.
That should go a long way in solving these issues.

I'd like to see in the mission description what systems the passenger is wanted in before taking the mission though.
That way you can avoid picking up somebody who's wanted in the current system.

 

[IceFire122]

Interesting, just found in the known issue list:
• Players being scanned whilst harbouring a criminal passenger are being charged with a bounty as opposed to a fine

Makes, me wonder, if its supposed to be a fine or bounty, as Micheal Brookes said here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/302073-Can-I-Get-Ship-Reimbursed-From-Frontier?p=4697914#post4697914
that it should be a bounty.

 

[Kerrash]

It is possible to do with the right ship/loadout and technique. I.e. small, fast, heat sink and silent running. I have seen it done. However I would not recommend doing this job in a fully laden Anaconda.

At the end of the day RTFM (Read The Full Mission)

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Don't automatically click on accepting mission. Text quite clearly states about passenger being wanted.

I agree that wanted passenger gameplay can be extended down further the line, but overall this is justified.

 

[sos4biz]

Not really. If you accidentally shoot a cop? The entire security force will hunt you down in system and attempt to extract the penalty. Which is death. Being wanted is supposed to be no joke. You've transgressed, better find somewhere else to be until the heat dies down, or accept the consequences. Crime is very black and white in ED, because it has to be. AI have no concept of context. Just wanted, and clean. So again; there has to be a consequence for becoming wanted.

I can foresee frontier will likely remove the station firing on people (because this is, obviously, what is actually wanted) so people are free to jump out, without consequence and pay off the legacy fine if they feel like it; unless they are scanned on the way back again. Just like every other crime.

Like I said; it's really funny how it's always okay for punishment to be brutal - if it's someone else. Since there's a return trip for virtually all passenger missions, anyone who has this happen is automatically going to want to dump the passenger; which I think is a pretty trivial 'out'. Should be a bit more too it, than absolving responsibility because suddenly that fat pay check has risk.

That is exactly NOT what I have said, I agree that there is punishment to be had, but to blindly assume all the innocent passengers have to be executed to uphold the law is absurd and contry to what law and order stands for, your argument that if you shoot a cop that the rest of the force will exact revenge in hunting down the perpitaitor at the expense of innocent human life is nonsense.

Make the fine very high, force the CMDRs hand, after all, ejecting the passengers will also mean the CMDRS will fail the mission which will effect there reputation and bank balance.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It is possible to do with the right ship/loadout and technique. I.e. small, fast, heat sink and silent running. I have seen it done. However I would not recommend doing this job in a fully laden Anaconda.

At the end of the day RTFM (Read The Full Mission)

You can build Cobra with incredibly lot of space for criminals and do silent running.

What we see here is regular ignorantum bug, catching players which rush trough game not playing it.

 

[sos4biz]

It is possible to do with the right ship/loadout and technique. I.e. small, fast, heat sink and silent running. I have seen it done. However I would not recommend doing this job in a fully laden Anaconda.

At the end of the day RTFM (Read The Full Mission)

Your right, I was speaking more about the issues surrounding CMDRs who do not realise they have picked up wanted passengers (though reading my own posts I really do not make it clear).

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That is exactly NOT what I have said, I agree that there is punishment to be had, but to blindly assume all the innocent passengers have to be executed to uphold the law is absurd and contry to what law and order stands for, your argument that if you shoot a cop that the rest of the force will exact revenge in hunting down the perpitaitor at the expense of innocent human life is nonsense.

Make the fine very high, force the CMDRs hand, after all, ejecting the passengers will also mean the CMDRS will fail the mission which will effect there reputation and bank balance.

None of passengers are executed. As for now, passengers are ALWAYS escaping trough escape pods, including criminal ones. Destroying ship is just making example of what happens if you do so. Criminal even taunts you afterwards for failing to deliver him to his destination.

As for execute orders - it is harsh galaxy. Some varied gameplay would be cool later on, but overall...you transported wanted passengers, you pay the price (wanted passengers pay more btw at this point already).

 

[sos4biz]

None of passengers are executed. As for now, passengers are ALWAYS escaping trough escape pods, including criminal ones. Destroying ship is just making example of what happens if you do so. Criminal even taunts you afterwards for failing to deliver him to his destination.

As for execute orders - it is harsh galaxy. Some varied gameplay would be cool later on, but overall...you transported wanted passengers, you pay the price (wanted passengers pay more btw at this point already).

Fair point, my mistake, I was under the impression all passengers were lost in the destruction of the ship.

 

[Kaltern]

Support:


Thanks for getting in touch, sorry to hear about the loss of your Anaconda.

From looking through our game logs in conjunction with your video, we can confirm that the station killed you due to a bounty being placed on your head for carrying a wanted passenger.

When scanned with a wanted passenger a bounty will be placed on you, (unlike a fine for carrying illicit cargo) this is an intended mechanic. However, we are currently investigating reports such as yours of people being instantly scanned and attacked at the same time, this does not appear to be quite working as intended

This is interesting, as it is in direct conflict with what I was told - that is is a bug and is not working as intended https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...re-of-wanted-passengers?p=4694589#post4694589 (fines instead of station death). As this reply was apparently after mine, it would be useful for one of our lovely FDev's to chime in and let us know the OFFICIAL, official standing on this.

 

[Oasis81]

passenger mission is the worst and stupid things that you can insert in this game

it's just booring, very boring... but atm you make this missions the only that can pay something....
but also, with a beluga ship that it's all but not a combat ship.... the NPC ATTACK me when i'm scanning the site that the mission required !?
the NPC comes in instance for attack me? where i have only luxury passenger and noone wanted or something else?!

my 6A Shield drops down instantly, and i save me with 10 % of ship armor. mission lost.

So  w.t.f.  ?!

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

This is interesting, as it is in direct conflict with what I was told - that is is a bug and is not working as intended https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...re-of-wanted-passengers?p=4694589#post4694589 (fines instead of station death). As this reply was apparently after mine, it would be useful for one of our lovely FDev's to chime in and let us know the OFFICIAL, official standing on this.

As far Michael comments goes - yes, killing your ship is intended design for 2.2.01 update (no, this part is not a bug. Scanning you and killing you in same time is). Your link might indicate that it will be changed in 2.2.02, we will see about that.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Remember when people kept asking for stronger punishment for crime? There were so many nodding heads, it looked like a death-metal mosh-pit.. lol.

Why are people complaining? All those "greifers" weren't supposed to get any warning either. Just instant hot death. I don't see the issue; this is precisely what has been asked for. Stiff penalties for crime, because bad people must be punished, regardless of context.

Even with a short delay, if you become involved in crime, regardless of context (because that never mattered when it was "other people" being "bad") you die. That's the law.

To be fair; AI have no concept of context. So this is pretty much bang on. Break the law. Die. Welcome to the 33rd century. It's a little rough.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Can I quote this, the next time some idiot demands more punishment, for criminal acts? Because I feel that somehow, it manages to miss the entire point.

This is happening, in part, because people asked for it. Might be slightly buggy, but this is what harsher penalties for crime, essentially looks like. Be careful what you ask for.

Sure, you can quote it, but I think these are two different issues. Punishment for griefers and getting almost instantly destroyed by the station that gave you the mission.
There should be risk involved trying to smuggle the passenger to his destination, not seconds after you retract your landing gear.