Engineers G5 Cannons - Overcharged or Short Range Blaster?

[goemon]

going for a pair of small G5 Cannons for my beloved CZ-DBS.

Overcharged or Short Range Blaster?

Afaik Cannons have no range damage decrease, which speaks for Short Range Blaster.

Overall range decrease doesn't matter, because i'll fire from close.

On the other hand, I'll go for High Yield Shell special effect, which decreases ROF, and overcharge increases ROF.

Distributor Draw doesn't really matter with cannons.

Anybody has experience with both upgades or an educated opinion which one to take?

No need to discuss cannons btw. ;-)

 

[StiTch]

going for a pair of small G5 Cannons for my beloved CZ-DBS.

Overcharged or Short Range Blaster?

Afaik Cannons have no range damage decrease, which speaks for Short Range Blaster.

Overall range decrease doesn't matter, because i'll fire from close.

On the other hand, I'll go for High Yield Shell special effect, which decreases ROF, and overcharge increases ROF.

Distributor Draw doesn't really matter with cannons.

Anybody has experience with both upgades or an educated opinion which one to take?

No need to discuss cannons btw. ;-)

Overcharged.

Range drops don't reduce maximum range, they actually remap your whole range curve, so your weapon will overall do less damage at a given range.

I know you said close range firing, but that's still less damage at that range, and cannons just don't care about that distributor draw increase on OC.

Cannons rule They also get some neat experimental effects.

 

[goemon]

Overcharged.

Range drops don't reduce maximum range, they actually remap your whole range curve, so your weapon will overall do less damage at a given range.

I know you said close range firing, but that's still less damage at that range, and cannons just don't care about that distributor draw increase on OC.

Cannons rule They also get some neat experimental effects.

thank you very much! I'll go overcharged...

concerning damage drop-off, it doesn't apply to cannons, does it? here is mike evans quote - i think the changes went live: "So here's what I'm going to do:

1) Remove damage fall off completely. They'll now do their full damage up to their maximum range."

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...uff-Cannons!?p=3869533&viewfull=1#post3869533

...

maybe, if i still have the materials for re-levelling the sarge, I#ll engineer two short-range blasters to compare... need to use some biotech conductors...

 

[StiTch]

thank you very much! I'll go overcharged...

concerning damage drop-off, it doesn't apply to cannons, does it? here is mike evans quote - i think the changes went live: "So here's what I'm going to do:

1) Remove damage fall off completely. They'll now do their full damage up to their maximum range."

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...uff-Cannons!?p=3869533&viewfull=1#post3869533

...

maybe, if i still have the materials for re-levelling the sarge, I#ll engineer two short-range blasters to compare... need to use some biotech conductors...

Good point.

It's 16:40, I've had four coffees, and still not awake. Forgot that cannons do that now.

I can't see short range trumping OC in any case, given if you strip out the range drop that's still a lower DPS increase, for an additional thermal load/integrity drop. All it's saving is distributor draw, which again the cannon don't care about

Actually feel it's a bit of a shame that the only weapon short range blaster could be viable on is still trumped by OC

 

[goemon]

Actually feel it's a bit of a shame that the only weapon short range blaster could be viable on is still trumped by OC

exactly my feeling, too ...

 

[Frenotx]

It is true that cannons don't have damage fall off with range. However, with projectile weapons, range up / range down actually means projectile speed up / projectile speed down. Lowering your max range of the cannons (by a lot, with G5 short range blaster) will significantly lower your projectile velocity, and thus make the weapon a lot harder to hit with. While I'm personally a fan of the trope of high damage + low projectile speed, the damage buff currently gained by short range blaster is IMO nowhere near large enough to justify it. With the 75% loss in max range / projectile speed, I'd expect at least a 100% boost in damage to compensate.

 

[xondk]

.

Chose the one you enjoy?
And fits your play style the best? there is no one 'best' if you ask me.

 

[StiTch]

It is true that cannons don't have damage fall off with range. However, with projectile weapons, range up / range down actually means projectile speed up / projectile speed down. Lowering your max range of the cannons (by a lot, with G5 short range blaster) will significantly lower your projectile velocity, and thus make the weapon a lot harder to hit with. While I'm personally a fan of the trope of high damage + low projectile speed, the damage buff currently gained by short range blaster is IMO nowhere near large enough to justify it. With the 75% loss in max range / projectile speed, I'd expect at least a 100% boost in damage to compensate.

Well that serves me right for not looking into the cannon mods properly. Should have known this... -_-

Chose the one you enjoy?
And fits your play style the best? there is no one 'best' if you ask me.

Gorgeous sentiment, but alas that has no place here.

Some mods really are just better than others.

 

[Derath]

Overcharged, absolutely zero reason to use short range on a cannon

 

[Ozram]

I know it drops stats, but have you considered long range projectile? The speed increase should more than make up for the other lowered stats. Also, if you don't have it already, dispersal field is a very useful effect.

 

[Derath]

I know it drops stats, but have you considered long range projectile? The speed increase should more than make up for the other lowered stats. Also, if you don't have it already, dispersal field is a very useful effect.

Long range is viable but the OP would have to be an excellent shot to take advantage of these compared to overcharged, the increased projectile speed certainly helps land more shots but it depends on his/her piloting style - if its easy to get to the range where you can't miss overcharged wins by a very comfortable margin, if your using cannons are long range you should probably just be using railguns

 

[Ozram]

Long range is viable but the OP would have to be an excellent shot to take advantage of these compared to overcharged, the increased projectile speed certainly helps land more shots but it depends on his/her piloting style - if its easy to get to the range where you can't miss overcharged wins by a very comfortable margin, if your using cannons are long range you should probably just be using railguns

As you say, it depends on ship and style. Cannons are exceptionally efficient as compared to rails. I use a single cannon on my Conda (gimballed medium) for the dispersal field. It also does it's expected module damage, but landing that effect is the real bonus for me.

 

[goemon]

...

thanks for this! great answer as always from Frenotx. i didn't even considered projectile speed...

Chose the one you enjoy?
And fits your play style the best? there is no one 'best' if you ask me.

well, i enjoy cannons

the thing with G5 upgrades + special effects and relevelling the engineer is, and while i spend a lot (some say: too much) time with this game, it isn't possible for me as before "just to try a build". i would love some kind of simulator ingame for this - because: test it yourself is very much my way, alas --- getting the commodities, levelling and relevelling the sarge 2 times, while watching the casino animation took several hours of my precious gaming time. those cannons are better good ones!

Well that serves me right for not looking into the cannon mods properly. Should have known this...

that's what forums are for

I know it drops stats, but have you considered long range projectile? The speed increase should more than make up for the other lowered stats. Also, if you don't have it already, dispersal field is a very useful effect.

ah! if i ever think about large(r) cannons, i will give that a try. in the very case - a combatzone diamandback scout - i just needed some small, more beefy weapon against hull ... or to kill powerplants.

Long range is viable but the OP would have to be an excellent shot to take advantage of these compared to overcharged, the increased projectile speed certainly helps land more shots but it depends on his/her piloting style - if its easy to get to the range where you can't miss overcharged wins by a very comfortable margin, if your using cannons are long range you should probably just be using railguns

i suck with railguns, but i'm working on it. but a get my DBS fairly close ... keeping >1000 m all time. "dancing with condas"

 

[StiTch]

ah! if i ever think about large(r) cannons, i will give that a try. in the very case - a combatzone diamandback scout - i just needed some small, more beefy weapon against hull ... or to kill powerplants.

Now this bit I do know! Rocked a DBS with cannons for a while some time back.

Cannons in general aren't wonderful hull shredders-multicannons do a better job. But if you can get to close quarters - around 400m or closer - with a reliable shot on the PP, a reasonable set of cannons will elegantly lay even a conda PP to waste in moments with minimal hull damage waste.

If someone had told me there's a game where cannons are precision weapons...

 

[Ozram]

Now this bit I do know! Rocked a DBS with cannons for a while some time back.

Cannons in general aren't wonderful hull shredders-multicannons do a better job. But if you can get to close quarters - around 400m or closer - with a reliable shot on the PP, a reasonable set of cannons will elegantly lay even a conda PP to waste in moments with minimal hull damage waste.

If someone had told me there's a game where cannons are precision weapons...

You always have good advice. I'd rep you but apparently I've already done so elsewhere.

 

[xondk]

Gorgeous sentiment, but alas that has no place here.

Some mods really are just better than others.

You are not competing with anyone though unless you play PvP and even when you do play PvP the 'meta' is often far far from the only viable thing, most things just require different approaches then people are used to. Seen it in many many other games as well. "This is the only thing that works" no, nope, very very often it simply isn't true, there's a lot of video's around saying this is better, that is better, yet my 2 medium beam, 3 large multi cannon, mishmash modded, python is melting stuff left right and center with ease, would it be 'better' with another specific setup? I don't think so, I've played with several setups, and I find this the best for me, obviously i'm going to tweak it more but the whole min/maxing? is absolutely and totally not needed.

Way way way too much worry on having shiny x6 sword, then actually having something that you feel plays best with how you fight, and the actual 'difference' is marginal.

 

[StiTch]

You are not competing with anyone though unless you play PvP and even when you do play PvP the 'meta' is often far far from the only viable thing, most things just require different approaches then people are used to. Seen it in many many other games as well. "This is the only thing that works" no, nope, very very often it simply isn't true, there's a lot of video's around saying this is better, that is better, yet my 2 medium beam, 3 large multi cannon, mishmash modded, python is melting stuff left right and center with ease, would it be 'better' with another specific setup? I don't think so, I've played with several setups, and I find this the best for me, obviously i'm going to tweak it more but the whole min/maxing? is absolutely and totally not needed.

Way way way too much worry on having shiny x6 sword, then actually having something that you feel plays best with how you fight, and the actual 'difference' is marginal.

Ironically it's not bothering with min/maxing that needs to pay strongest attention to mods used.

You can put whatever mods you damn well want on - no one is saying otherwise. But especially if you aren't going G5, mods such as short range blaster are actively detrimental.

Absolutely your right to take what you want in, as long as you're aware that the majority of low grade weapon mods are making you worse than if you'd put the time in.

 

[xondk]

Ironically it's not bothering with min/maxing that needs to pay strongest attention to mods used.

You can put whatever mods you damn well want on - no one is saying otherwise. But especially if you aren't going G5, mods such as short range blaster are actively detrimental.

Absolutely your right to take what you want in, as long as you're aware that the majority of low grade weapon mods are making you worse than if you'd put the time in.

If the roll is better then stock its better then what you had? obviously it isn't as good as better stuff, but should it be?

 

[StiTch]

If the roll is better then stock its better then what you had? obviously it isn't as good as better stuff, but should it be?

It's the offset stats that ruin them.

On anything with jitter, the jitter alone normally outweighs the majority of the benefit you get. And then some mods like short range blaster have a dropoff in range for instance, which remaps your entire range curve to be lower so there's almost no point you're doing more damage than without it, and on others like long range you are taking too many offsets to be worth the gain you get.

As described above, some weapons have a niche - larger cannons can run long range for the velocity increase because they don't get jitter and don't care about most of the offsets, but as a general rule... :/

 

[goemon]

thanks everybody, just to put it here: small G5 overcharged cannons (with high yield shell)are exactly the kind of damage i was looking for!
___

Now this bit I do know! Rocked a DBS with cannons for a while some time back.

DBS was my first CZ ship ... i started doing combat at all shortly before DBS was introduced. in the beginning with a medium cannon, later on with one small... was great in 1.4.!

If the roll is better then stock its better then what you had? obviously it isn't as good as better stuff, but should it be?

no, it's more about the "unwritten" sideeffects, like in case of short-range blaster on cannons: a slower projectile speed.

sure, you can put lightweight mod on a lightweight bulkhead - but you won't get any effect ;-) ... while when you put heavy duty armour on a lightweight bulkhead, you get more hull, more resistance - without any drawback.