General / Off-Topic UK News: Snoopers Chater Passing into Law

[Minonian]

feel whatever you want. Sure as hell, there is no any kind of safety in total lawlessness.

Edit; Besides? Internet is all about informations. So tell me! How else is possible to apply any kind of control over it, if you are not keeping your fingertips over it's pulse? If you don't make sure, to keep the informations, which can be signs of a criminal activity? It's not possible to make any kind of judgement without proof.

But in one thing you have a point. Law is for everyone, and there are cannot be exclusion from it. At least this must be the baseline. And after it comes the situation, small details and such things.

Edit2; The problem is? there are a lot of sensible informations goes trough in the hands of leaders, and i'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to make this too easily acessible. Too many secrets which can hurt a lot in the wrong hands. This is (partially) about security. For a starter think about the clinton E mail scandal. Now add state matters.

 

[FuzzySpider]

This maybe be on itherest to some

Official

Petition
Repeal the new Surveillance laws (Investigatory Powers Act)

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/173199

Remember to click the link in your email.

If you'd rather not sign that's fine.

Theresa May doesn't believe in representational democracy - that much is clear. This won't be removed by Parliament with her in charge.

I've taken a more direct form of protest. Simply write "Bomb, Praise Allah" in any non-essential email you send or say it in any phone call you make to your mates. Said communication will be flagged and the powers that be will have to waste time reading it and listening to it. If enough people do it then the system will fracture and break, although I have read it might be broken already.

http://tinyurl.com/zqw77ve

 

[Lianachan]

Theresa May doesn't believe in representational democracy - that much is clear. This won't be removed by Parliament with her in charge.

I've taken a more direct form of protest. Simply write "Bomb, Praise Allah" in any non-essential email you send or say it in any phone call you make to your mates. Said communication will be flagged and the powers that be will have to waste time reading it and listening to it. If enough people do it then the system will fracture and break, although I have read it might be broken already.

http://tinyurl.com/zqw77ve

Spotted this on social media today, thought it was rather apt.

 

[SystematicChaos]

feel whatever you want. Sure as hell, there is no any kind of safety in total lawlessness.

Edit; Besides? Internet is all about informations. So tell me! How else is possible to apply any kind of control over it, if you are not keeping your fingertips over it's pulse? If you don't make sure, to keep the informations, which can be signs of a criminal activity? It's not possible to make any kind of judgement without proof.

But in one thing you have a point. Law is for everyone, and there are cannot be exclusion from it. At least this must be the baseline. And after it comes the situation, small details and such things.

Edit2; The problem is? there are a lot of sensible informations goes trough in the hands of leaders, and i'm not entirely sure it's a good idea to make this too easily acessible. Too many secrets which can hurt a lot in the wrong hands. This is (partially) about security. For a starter think about the clinton E mail scandal. Now add state matters.

You don't seem to get this Internet thing very well. It was designed to not be controlled by any single entity.
The Clinton email scandal was such an epic fail of basic Internet security on all counts it's not even an issue in this argument. Anyone else would've been hung, drawn and quartered for routing government or corporate emails through any third party server, secure or not.

Recent events have got nothing to do with it either. This law has been simmering in the background for years. Labour wanted it first and it was defeated, then the coalition wanted it and it was defeated again. If you think this law is going to do anything to reduce cyber crime then you really are Mr/Mrs gullible.

The UK population is probably already one of the most pried and spied upon in the western world.
Those who keep quoting "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" would do very well to remember who that quote is attributed to.
You might be happy for every jobsworth from officialdom to have access to your private life, but I'm not.

 

[SystematicChaos]

Well here we go, it's in law today!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...l-becomes-law-extending-uk-state-surveillance

They reckon the data can be collected by the end of December this year, with the processes to look at the data some time next year.

To anyone supporting this, please tell me why the Foods Standards Agency and my local Council should be able to look at the data?

I can understand them pushing for GCHQ, Police etc, though I don't agree. But tax agencies? FSA? Waaat?

You should've looked at the bottom of the page:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tions-watchdog-report-phone-web-data-policing

 

[Flimley]

You ain't seen me....right ?

Flimley

 

[Minonian]

You ain't seen me....right ?

Flimley

who r u?

skip

Just as i said at this point it does not matter what you think and what i think, because the govenments just had enough.

About the pile of unhandleable rubble? True that it's useless if you just shifting trough randomly but if you know what you search, and where? Than the whole situation is changes.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I've never been prevented from saying what I've wanted to say, nor do I spout hate under a veil of anonymity.

I have nothing to hide.

And it's not a fallacy, you just disagree.

Please forward me all your post so I can read it before you open it. Also do you draw your curtains at night? If so, why?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Do as you wish but before you say anything against it, think about this.

This is the first line of defense against terrorism and cyber criminals. Like it or not, but it's necessary.

So if I were planning an attack I'd just avoid any electronic communications.

 

[Minonian]

So if I were planning an attack I'd just avoid any electronic communications.

And how this affects you in the modern world?

Besides, i think some peope still not getting it what's going to happen right now? The people had his chance to show self reliance, and Self-regulation. And show we capable to run a part of the world without governments, it can work but based on cyber crime and cyber terrorism how far and big developed like the attack i mentioned previously, the answer to this question is no! So they are coming to take over.

At this point the only question is only how much of the freedom of the web remains? If you ask me it's depends on how much self reliance and self regulation we can show? If we are more trusty? Less rules are necessary, the grip don't have to be made out of iron. But if there is too many people whom don't give any regard tovard the most basic of social and law rules, or the opposite, too much self righteous no ones present? Their resolution is not going to be nice.

 

[Marra Morgan]

This law doesn't provide any security, in fact it creates more security concerns.
Dozens of agencies now have access to this data, each one is a liability. Should that data fall into certain hands, it doesn't take too much a stretch of the imagination to think of the leverage one could use against members of the police or security.

Because not all man are good, or neutral, but born bad. Evil selfish or just mad in the worst possible ways.

Hang on, are you seriously suggesting that people are born "bad"?

 

[Minonian]

Hang on, are you seriously suggesting that people are born "bad"?

Some.
Like someone whom is a psychopath by nature, and the world, the life what they had, the choices they made, are screwed them up even worst. You can't do anything with it what you are how you born.
But your choices? That's always up to you. And when i say choices? To leave the nice cozy comfort zone / home of your ideology is too up to you.

Edit; And here is a thing about the kind of retards whom trying force their will onto you never get. They can wreak havoc in your life. but they can't affect the choices you make, when it's matters.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Some.
Like someone whom is a psychopath by nature, and the world, the life what they had, the choices they made, are screwed them up even worst. You can't do anything with it what you are how you born.
But your choices? That's always up to you. And when i say choices? To leave the nice cozy comfort zone / home of your ideology is too up to you.

Edit; And here is a thing about the kind of retards whom trying force their will onto you never get. They can wreak havoc in your life. but they can't affect the choices you make, when it's matters.

Unless I missed the discovery of an "evil gene", no-one is born "bad".

There is only the influences on your upbringing and the choices that you make.

 

[EdzUp]

I wouldn't say it's open to abuse, I would say it is abuse - a further erosion of human rights.

You have no rights, the rights of everyone is written into Law by the people that make them. You can be sure that there are several 'loopholes' written in as well so they can do whatever they want.

It is common knowledge that members of parliament make the laws for themselves in many countries

Exactly this law isnt to protect us at all its to make it easier for them to get around any legal issues that might arise in the future, look at the terrorism law how many 'suspected' terrorists were held for longer than the designated period because they were arrested under that and detained indefinitely without trial.

Any law that doesn't apply equally to those in power has to be suspect.

Indeed :/

 

[Martian Successor]

And how this affects you in the modern world?

Besides, i think some peope still not getting it what's going to happen right now? The people had his chance to show self reliance, and Self-regulation. And show we capable to run a part of the world without governments, it can work but based on cyber crime and cyber terrorism how far and big developed like the attack i mentioned previously, the answer to this question is no! So they are coming to take over.

At this point the only question is only how much of the freedom of the web remains? If you ask me it's depends on how much self reliance and self regulation we can show? If we are more trusty? Less rules are necessary, the grip don't have to be made out of iron. But if there is too many people whom don't give any regard tovard the most basic of social and law rules, or the opposite, too much self righteous no ones present? Their resolution is not going to be nice.

I must say that I'm noticing you're dragging this topic off into a tangent based on your own predetermined agenda. You're not really arguing against or agreeing with anything in particular, rather it seems that you are vocalising your thoughts on the Internet and the state of humanity as a whole.

Most of what you are saying in the last couple of posts is neither here nor there in terms of the topic of the UK Government having given itself ultimate power over how its citizens personal data gets used and abused and sold, and resold, and stolen and used to find out if you have an underlying health condition so health insurers can screw you for example and etc, etc.

 

[Arnoldo]

@Minonian; are you UK based and subject to the new legislation? The structure and use of language in your posts seems to hint that English isn't your native tongue so I'm just curious re the relevance and impact of the new laws on your good self.

 

[Frank]

This law doesn't provide any security, in fact it creates more security concerns.
Dozens of agencies now have access to this data, each one is a liability. Should that data fall into certain hands, it doesn't take too much a stretch of the imagination to think of the leverage one could use against members of the police or security.

Security theater. It is just like those pervo-ray devices at airports. What a surprise when the sort of people who applied for the job of looking at naked people turned out to be the sort of people you don't want looking at naked people (I'm being sarcastic. It wasn't at all surprising)

I'm sure there are going to be a few disgruntled employees going to be passing around hard drives in the future, especially if a Hard Brexit leads to a massive number of lay-offs

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You might be happy for every jobsworth from officialdom to have access to your private life, but I'm not.

Won't be that bad. I used to work for the DSS and we could look up anyone in the country's national insurance records. However, every now and again, at least once a day, you'd access a record and a check would come up. If you didn't have the casework to prove you had a reason for accessing that record, it could be a disciplinary action, you could even lose your job over it. Oh yeah, and there were special people in, like MPs and celebrities, that would trigger a check every time.

I presume they will use a similar system here. Anyone who goes poking around without reason will be likely to get busted.

 

[Minonian]

Unless I missed the discovery of an "evil gene", no-one is born "bad".

There is only the influences on your upbringing and the choices that you make.

Wrong! Psychopathic tendencies in many cases are genetic. It's hereditary, just like as an example haemophilia. If you have this than you totally insensitive to others emotion, pain struggle, and so on... Now, if in surplus you got the wrong kind of personality, tendency to violence, no restrain at all?

What you got?

- - - Updated - - -

skip

You know? i'd rather see this kind of power in the hands of governments than in the hands of cyber criminals, like i don't know? an extotion virus in a hospital, what can cause fatalities. This is where we reach the point when you must sacrifice some of your freedom in exchange of security. And bear in mind as far you are not a criminal, it's not going to used against you.

EDIT; Oh? and BTW you are simply begin paranoid, and think all governments are evil and do everything against you they have no other intentions just screw your life in the worst possible way.

And here coming to the big questions!
They are?
All of them?
Nothing else?

 

[Martian Successor]

Wrong! Psychopathic tendencies in many cases are genetic. It's hereditary, just like as an example haemophilia. If you have this than you totally insensitive to others emotion, pain struggle, and so on... Now, if in surplus you got the wrong kind of personality, tendency to violence, no restrain at all?

What you got?

- - - Updated - - -



You know? i'd rather see this kind of power in the hands of governments than in the hands of cyber criminals, like i don't know? an extotion virus in a hospital, what can cause fatalities. This is where we reach the point when you must sacrifice some of your freedom in exchange of security. And bear in mind as far you are not a criminal, it's not going to used against you.

EDIT; Oh? and BTW you are simply begin paranoid, and think all governments are evil and do everything against you they have no other intentions just screw your life in the worst possible way.

And here coming to the big questions!
They are?
All of them?
Nothing else?

It's not about having trust in your government to not abuse your data (by selling parts of it off to 3rd parties for example) in is much as it is about knowing how cyber criminals work, how they dig for information and how they get access to it. Information has always been power. In the digital age the old adage of: 'knowledge is power' has become more relevant now than ever before in human history.

The more data and information that is passed around the less secure it becomes. The more data and information that is stored and gathered in one location the less secure it is and the more of a gold mine it becomes to the cyber criminal equivalents of people who wanted to knock over Fort Knox - the world's biggest stash of gold. The more organisations that are allowed to access this stash of information the more pathways/roads exist that lead into to this proverbial digital 'Fort Knox'.

Do you honestly think that the Food Standards Agency or the Gambling Commission have top notch data security measures when compared to organisations like MI5/MI6/GCHQ? Yet they will be given access/a gateway/an entry point into the Government's biggest store of citizen's personal data to date. It doesn't matter if they never use it, the gateway infrastructure is going to be built. Meaning a cyber criminal's job potentially just got a whole lot easier - they don't have to hack MI6 when they can hack a much easier system to crack and still gain access to the gateway leading into ... you guessed it, Digi-Fort Knox.

So when you say, you'd "rather see this kind of power in the hands of governments than in the hands of cyber criminals" rest assured you'll be seeing more of it in the hands of both.

Need I even quote the historical truth, "power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

It's not about being paranoid (even though George Orwell is probably spinning his grave). It's about knowing how much of a bad idea certain parts of this whole charter are from both a technical standpoint and one of preserving the intrinsic values, rights and freedoms that we take for granted as a Western democratic society.