Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

[tulae]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before (it's a long thread), but the lit Obelisks seem to be getting rotated in the Open instances. I've noticed at least two more "sets" after the original one (the one in the maps getting shared). I just finished going around the site mapping one of those sets (my game crashed before I could map the other one I saw).

There seems to always be 15 Obelisks lit up in the site, and the number within each "region" is also always the same. For example, the region with Obelisks 1-4 always has four, but they seem to be a different set of four depending on the instance. I'll try to make a clean map with this second set and post it soon.

 

[nazo]

Is it just me or does activating all of the towers change the sound of the site some? One thing I've been doing is I don't just activate them, but I shoot off the three (well, three for all but one of them -- the fact that the "northern" one has only two when the other three have three blocks around them seems almost like they wanted to draw our attention to those even and I wonder if maybe only one or two should be removed from each even) blocks around the lighted artifact and leave the artifact intact. I've been sort of wondering if those could be shielding to keep the emissions from them focused as tightly as possible and unshielding them makes it leak out some. Has someone tested this more thoroughly?

I'm guessing someone has already checked to see what might be more or less in the line of sight as centered as possible between the three towers that are in a triangle. As far as clues towards another site goes, presuming this is some sort of communications system, might they be pointing towards another site to communicate with?

I assume also someone has already analyzed the sounds. I've been sort of wondering if it couldn't be something like the Voyager Golden Disc. Among other things, we have sounds of natural things like surf, animal noises, and etc. If you speed it up a fair bit it could sort of sound like something of that nature. I presume someone has already thought of this long ago, but I'm curious what has come of analyzing this as it would require recording for a long time. I'm wondering in particular if it's meant to be heard in their natural environment in the same way our sounds are meant to be heard in a 1 atmosphere oxygen-rich environment. I'm sure everyone has tried speeding it up, but what about frequency shifts? (What might an ammonia-based world sound like for instance? Although are the guardians ammonia-based?)

Honestly, I'm kind of curious why no one sent out a huge excavation team and started digging out the site by now. IRL it would have happened already, lol. I mean, we're all still wondering exactly what this is: could it be a crashed ship or something? It's sort of weird that in Elite they just send random people to investigate random things instead of putting together a proper team and doing it properly themselves.

 

[NuGundam]

Hmm, perhaps getting the right combination on several obelisks 'unlocks' new ones.

Since the Open Play instance is persistent as long as players keep getting dropped in, and each player gets to scan their own obelisks individually, theres a greater chance of new ones unlocking by brute force, apparently for everyone.

We may have a greater puzzle on our hands than we thought.

Perhaps we need to test the sounds they emit in earnest. There has to be some clue as to which combo is right before you scan it, because it seems each instance has slightly different solutions, so trying over and over to brute force it would be impossible unless you had many players.

Maybe we should get a persistent Cannon private group going for testing with multiple players (and fewer griefers)?

Yeah, my current theory is that something that players have done accidentally in Open had lead to different obelisks becoming active.

I feel that if this were controlled, then we would be able to get more data out of each ruin.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure if it has been mentioned before (it's a long thread), but the lit Obelisks seem to be getting rotated in the Open instances. I've noticed at least two more "sets" after the original one (the one in the maps getting shared). I just finished going around the site mapping one of those sets (my game crashed before I could map the other one I saw).

There seems to always be 15 Obelisks lit up in the site, and the number within each "region" is also always the same. For example, the region with Obelisks 1-4 always has four, but they seem to be a different set of four depending on the instance. I'll try to make a clean map with this second set and post it soon.

Meant to quote this, not myself.

 

[Auntystatic]

In one of the messages I received it said that this was clearly a communications hub, and a second mentioned language structure and regional accents, why do people still think its a crashed spaceship, are you not getting the same decodes as me?

 

[tulae]

Yeah, my current theory is that something that players have done accidentally in Open had lead to different obelisks becoming active.

I feel that if this were controlled, then we would be able to get more data out of each ruin.

- - - Updated - - -



Meant to quote this, not myself.

I'm not even sure. I'm currently sitting here in what I'm calling a "Set C Instance" (With A being the original, and B the one I saw but couldn't map), and haven't really noticed anything different aside from the lit obelisks. I did just get two more data points while sitting in my ship, possibly from someone else here scanning. Technology 11/20 and Biological 8/19. So I'm thinking that every Set of Obelisks give out a different set of Data Points in this same site. My total of Data Points right now is 17, two of those are absolutely unaccounted for In terms of which Obelisk Set they come from. Might be Set B, C, or another one I have't seen yet.

Edit Scratch that. Make it 19 Data points. While I wrote this I got Language 13/21 and Cultural 8/20. I don't think I've seen any other "cultural" Data Point.

 

[ShadowAviator]

I'm not even sure. I'm currently sitting here in what I'm calling a "Set C Instance" (With A being the original, and B the one I saw but couldn't map), and haven't really noticed anything different aside from the lit obelisks. I did just get two more data points while sitting in my ship, possibly from someone else here scanning. Technology 11/20 and Biological 8/19. So I'm thinking that every Set of Obelisks give out a different set of Data Points in this same site. My total of Data Points right now is 17, two of those are absolutely unaccounted for In terms of which Obelisk Set they come from. Might be Set B, C, or another one I have't seen yet.

Edit Scratch that. Make it 19 Data points. While I wrote this I got Language 13/21 and Cultural 8/20. I don't think I've seen any other "cultural" Data Point.

So how do we get to different "sets"?

 

[Lorddrakewater]

Ok forgive me if this has already been noted but the oblisk change there data based on the active pillars.

I scanned the active oblisk that is by itself close to the pyramid with no pillars up and got epsilon with casket and orb. Switched instances. Same result.

Switched again and raised pyramid pillar and it changed to beta. I'm headed to bed now but hopefully this will help you commanders still working on this. I have not tried to see if each individual pillar changes the data or if it's just the number of pillars active.

O7

 

[tulae]

So how do we get to different "sets"?

I honestly have no idea myself. I've had to reconnect several times because my game either crashed, or got the adjudication error thing. When I got back into the game, the lit obelisks were different. In one instance I was able to map only four of those obelisks before another CMDR destroyed my SRV. In the instance I'm sitting right now I was able to map the whole site. Does anyone know if there is a high-resolution image/map of the site that can be used to map the different sets in one image?

 

[NuGundam]

I'm not even sure. I'm currently sitting here in what I'm calling a "Set C Instance" (With A being the original, and B the one I saw but couldn't map), and haven't really noticed anything different aside from the lit obelisks. I did just get two more data points while sitting in my ship, possibly from someone else here scanning. Technology 11/20 and Biological 8/19. So I'm thinking that every Set of Obelisks give out a different set of Data Points in this same site. My total of Data Points right now is 17, two of those are absolutely unaccounted for In terms of which Obelisk Set they come from. Might be Set B, C, or another one I have't seen yet.

Edit Scratch that. Make it 19 Data points. While I wrote this I got Language 13/21 and Cultural 8/20. I don't think I've seen any other "cultural" Data Point.

Thats just going further to prove my point. In solo, the max I could get was 12, regardless of what I did.

Players in Open right now are getting new data no one else has ever seen, and are reporting new obelisks that are never present in a fresh instance!

There has to be a way to activate these other obelisks. And Ive got a strong suspicion it either has to do with getting the right combos at each obelisk, the first time (which may or may not be slightly random with clues).

Or *maybe* it has to with activating relic towers, which so far, have no use, but behave oddly in Open.

 

[27δ(duuude)]

Here to corroborate the common server disconnects during brute force methods.
Spoilers for my tin-foil hat hypothesis.

Spoiler

What if there is a hostile/destructive/[alien]/guardian trigger from a brute force detection that is bugged out like the formidine thing?

 

[NuGundam]

Ok forgive me if this has already been noted but the oblisk change there data based on the active pillars.

I scanned the active oblisk that is by itself close to the pyramid with no pillars up and got epsilon with casket and orb. Switched instances. Same result.

Switched again and raised pyramid pillar and it changed to beta. I'm headed to bed now but hopefully this will help you commanders still working on this. I have not tried to see if each individual pillar changes the data or if it's just the number of pillars active.

O7

That's very interesting....

Either way, im done theorizing for the night. Perhaps this flu will let up and I can do some testing tomorrow.

 

[Esso]

So is there a chart or a list of combinations that work?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...3tODwHQdEnxLoVIj4ceGrpGQ8/edit#gid=1483530591
This spreadsheet says that 35 combinations have been found. Is there a coherent list of what these combinations were? The other spreadsheets are a total mess with people throwing in their data out of format, even data that had no results. Can anyone point me to the 35 combinations that work? Thank you.

 

[ShadowAviator]

When did the ruins change layout?

There is now a set of obelisks where there used to be a tower. I assume this changed during an update? I haven't played alot recently.

 

[Colossus1921]

I just had an anomaly show up. The spreadsheet shows Tech 7 coming from 15 with an orb and a relic. I got it from 14 with just an orb (i think. I was being sloppy at the time and not taking notes.) I believe that I'd activated all the pillars and had scanned the rest of the obelisks. I tried to scan 14 again just now with an orb and an urn to get Tech 10 and I wasn't even able to scan it. I went to 15 (Where tech 7 is supposed to be), still with the orb and urn, and got Tech 10.

Has anyone else experienced something like this?

 

[NuGundam]

I just had an anomaly show up. The spreadsheet shows Tech 7 coming from 15 with an orb and a relic. I got it from 14 with just an orb (i think. I was being sloppy at the time and not taking notes.) I believe that I'd activated all the pillars and had scanned the rest of the obelisks. I tried to scan 14 again just now with an orb and an urn to get Tech 10 and I wasn't even able to scan it. I went to 15 (Where tech 7 is supposed to be), still with the orb and urn, and got Tech 10.

Has anyone else experienced something like this?

Yes. Some data is obtained through more than one combination.

 

[tulae]

Thats just going further to prove my point. In solo, the max I could get was 12, regardless of what I did.

Players in Open right now are getting new data no one else has ever seen, and are reporting new obelisks that are never present in a fresh instance!

There has to be a way to activate these other obelisks. And Ive got a strong suspicion it either has to do with getting the right combos at each obelisk, the first time (which may or may not be slightly random with clues).

Or *maybe* it has to with activating relic towers, which so far, have no use, but behave oddly in Open.

It's possible the beacons have some sort of influence over the Obelisk sets. My game crashed again, so I'll see the status of the place when I get back. I'll focus on mapping the Obelisk sets for now and then worry about artifact combinations.

One thing's for sure now. There are at least 101 data points in total:

21 Historical
21 Language
20 Technology
20 Cultural
19 Biological

I'll also transcribe all of the data points I have at the moment so that we can put everything together in one place.

 

[Zambrick]

So all I can figure out so far.

14 and 15 are both Technology based and the Orb is their friend
1,2,3,4,5,12,13 are Caskets histories and whatnot
8,9 are Urns biological Data
6,7,10.11 are Tablets language and whatnot.

Ram Tah wont send you his little hate mail message calling you a dummy if you have at least one of the items in your cargo when scanning each group.

I think that maybe totems and 1,2,3,4 could have something to do with each other, but then again its probably madness. I have 12 or so unlocked. I went through and brute forced most of them and came up with a pattern. What I dont see happening is us getting this done in three weeks. The problem is that you have to mode switch if you have chosen incorrectly. It seems to randomly assign a combination of the remaining scans in the sets I listed each time you mode switch it resets. Doesnt matter if its solo group private or open.

I know someone mentioned a sound they thought they heard when they had the right combo. I can tell you after 11 hours straight I have heard no sound differentiation regardless as to the combo I am carrying.

Now that I have them broken down into those groups, I am going to have to go through and brute force those sets with the new knowledge.

I dont know if that can help anyone. God knows I need the help. Its kind of like defragging a hard drive by hand.

I would say next time if we get another new type of puzzle in the future, provide some interactivity. Brute force and or offline code breaking are not puzzles. The Binary yes you are right or no you are wrong approach only works if there is a 50 50 chance. Even then its still chance. There are well over 100 permutations with random reshuffling of the permutations every time you log out.


Thankfully it doesnt matter what order they are in your cargo hold. that would 60k plus permutations. I think we would go batty otherwise.

Also does anyone know what it means when my mission bonus went up by 1million? it was 100mil. Now its 101mill. Something change in the missions?

EDIT: Please dont tell me that open is affecting solo and group. I have been blown up twice by gankers in open and I cant risk another ship loss. There should be no reason for this to be an open only event.




EDIT: Zenith you beat me to the punch and you have pretty pictures to boot. O well. It cant be a coincidence now that 2 commanders have come to a similar conclusion.
See Zeniths post its much clearer. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...9-The-Canonn?p=4999013&viewfull=1#post4999013

 

[Vepeerre]

I found out something specific about the ancient items and how they relate to the obelisks this evening.
First of all I went through all 27 permutations of items you can carry in the SRV and scanned all 15 active obelisks, recording the response on a grid.
Then I double checked it (yeah, I really did the circuit 54 times in 2 evenings!).

I'm broadly finding my results are similar to others, however because of the way I've got my permutations listed I noticed a pattern in the data.
I was recording where I scanned a Guardian data packet, whether I got a message of failure from Ram Tah, or no message at all. (Any mistakes in the sheet aren't intentional)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/157Dsf2Db_XD3_vvpkaO0Z0m1wMzU-Dx79yfxohHlbXM/edit?usp=sharing

And that was when it jumped out at me that 4 of the 6 items "unlock" a group of obelisks so that they don't report a failed scan attempt.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/BPNuFwq.png

A big jump out is that Relic with Totem doesn't work on ANY of the 15 obelisks that we know are active.

Your theory is right, I tried the items and it happens exactly as you said, now I didn't try all possible combinations like this, but it'll certainly be less work than before... I hope this gets more views because it's probably something and if it is a bug, then FD pls....

 

[NuclearSatan]

Your theory is right, I tried the items and it happens exactly as you said, now I didn't try all possible combinations like this, but it'll certainly be less work than before... I hope this gets more views because it's probably something and if it is a bug, then FD pls....

I can confirm this.

 

[Garvik]

I just had an anomaly show up. The spreadsheet shows Tech 7 coming from 15 with an orb and a relic. I got it from 14 with just an orb (i think. I was being sloppy at the time and not taking notes.) I believe that I'd activated all the pillars and had scanned the rest of the obelisks. I tried to scan 14 again just now with an orb and an urn to get Tech 10 and I wasn't even able to scan it. I went to 15 (Where tech 7 is supposed to be), still with the orb and urn, and got Tech 10.

Has anyone else experienced something like this?

Yep, I think the spreadsheets are wrong at some points due to the servers borking up scan confirmation messages. When I scanned my first Obelisk I got the voice notification that I got a message .... but didn't actually have one. Each consecutive scan after that did give me a message but from the Obelisk I scanned before the current one. After relogging once the final missing message showed up as well. It's damn annoying keeping track of which piece of data belongs to which scan this way ...