Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

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So does this mean the puzzle only works correctly in Open?

I can't see that being the case, there's thousands of players that don't play open play because of *reasons*, surely FDev wouldn't block them out of the most interesting parts of the game, or force a play style.

Or maybe the puzzle is designed to be solved in groups, but that would leave the solo players out.

It's hard to speculate on such little information.

It certainly seems something isn't right with the way the puzzle is working in Solo. I can also confirm that the only way the obelisks reset for me in solo is if I relog. Otherwise they remain inactive.

No solid answer on this from Frontier however...
 
It certainly seems something isn't right with the way the puzzle is working in Solo. I can also confirm that the only way the obelisks reset for me in solo is if I relog. Otherwise they remain inactive.

No solid answer on this from Frontier however...

Time for a video Mr Ant.

We need answers :)

Not asking for clues, asking for information on the game mechanics.

Does this puzzle need to be done in open, private groups or can it be done in solo?
 
Maybe some of us should head out on our ships to try to find the second and third sites.

They should be also in the planet, or the moons around. Would be lore friendly if this planet serves as a obelisk network server of shorts. and with the dificulty of spoting this sites from orbit it should be easy that we missed them.

I´ll start by exploring this planet and see if i can find something, then ill move to another moon.

But let me suggest this, this beings love geometrical forms no? We know for the amount of data missing there has to be 2 more sites, i think they should be arranged on a triangle. Any matematizians reading this that have an idea on how to locate such positions on a sphere (the planet)? probably there is a mathematical way to set 2 more sites on the surface of the planet that mathematically are at equal distances one from the other... Is it not an interesting idea?
 
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So does this mean the puzzle only works correctly in Open?

I can't see that being the case, there's thousands of players that don't play open play because of *reasons*, surely FDev wouldn't block them out of the most interesting parts of the game, or force a play style.

Or maybe the puzzle is designed to be solved in groups, but that would leave the solo players out.

It's hard to speculate on such little information.

Actually, there's an abundance of information about instancing and scanning. Long story short, no, I don't think it's working properly in Open/PG, and it is actually working in solo correctly, but in Open/PG the effects of instancing and event registration cause what should be happening to solve the puzzle to essentially "break".

Look at what we do know. You can stack multiple (for arguments sake, 20) "scanning" missions to the one location (try out the PRE surface base in Pleiades to see this in action), scan one of the multiple data beacons that will spawn there (twenty of them, one for each mission you take), and it'll register completion for *all* twenty missions, and you get a success message for each mission. The one you scan disables, meanwhile the other 19 are still active. Scan another one, you get another 20 completion messages for each mission again.

Now lets look at what's being observed. Things like:
- People in wings who aren't doing anything get a data entry when a wingmate successfully finds a scan combination (Scanning event registers for all wingmates)
- Everyone sees an active beacon. One person scans it, it deactivates... meanwhile other players still see the beacon as active (Scanning the beacon only disables it for one person)

Now assume that you've got 8 obelisks, 4 active, 4 inactive. To get the other 4 to activate (like what gets observed in open with different obelisks to those mapped after people randomly scan/approach things).

So lets say you have to scan Beacon 1 with Item 1 in your hold, Beacon 2 with item 2, 3 with 3 and 4 with 4. If you get any one of these wrong, you've broken your chance to activate others. In solo, that's what, a possible 256 permutations if ordering mattered? That's a significant space to try and solve to get 1,1 - 2,2 - 3,3 - 4,4

But get four wingmen, one with item 1, one with item 2, one with item 3, and 1 with item four. Each of you scan all four obelisks and bam, because of the way the event registration seems to occur under the hood based on previous observations, you've brute-forced the entire problem space (Because Obelisk 1 registers as having been scanned with item 1, 2, 3 and 4 thanks to the event registering for all wingmates when you scan, same with 2, 3 and 4. In all that, 1 got scanned with 1, 2 with 2, 3 with 3 etc etc).

Now that example only used 4 obelisks and 4 items. The initial state of the puzzle is, just considering obelisks and items, 21 (or 26) permutations of items in the hold and 15 active obelisks. That's 6.8122319e+19 possible combinations if order of events matters. Far less if order doesn't, but still a significant amount.

Personally, that's what I think is going on under the hood. There's certain events you need to trigger with certain things in certain ways, but because those conditions can "stack" in open or groups, you start to see things unlocking far easier.
 
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Has anyone tried viewing the image flipped, are we sure the orientation is correct.

To me, the flipped image looks like two planets in close proximity.

There is a planet extremely close to this one, has it been fully surveyed for additional ruins?



i'm just doing that. superimposing a flipped image at 50% opacity, rotating, nothing yet.
 
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Been trying that on my own in Mobius for the last hour or so - didn't get a thing!

Got one delayed dataset whilst in SRV trying the newly activated obelisks, although almost all said "data already received".

edited for missing quote - this was in reply to a suggestion to hover above obelisks with all items in hold whilst others scanned them.
 
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I'll update my reflection on how many STATES the Obelisk has when scanning it.
0 - Nothing happens when you scan it, except you get data.
1 - You get a message saying "There is something, but not this combination". No payout. These messages can be delayed as usual due to the bugs we know.
2 - Properly decoded message and 1 mill bonus. These messages can be delayed as usual due to the bugs we know.
3 - You hear the inbox-sound, but not message. No bonus observed.

Regarding #3.
This is not the usual "you have mail, you have to relog to be able to find it". it's the other kind that has been reported, where no trace of it can be found.
There is a slight chance that this is a different message - and a different kind of trigger. And mail we're supposed to be able to read.

We tested it slightly on the livestream yesterday, we know how & where to produce it.
And a new special obelisk did light up for the tester.
For the rest of us, we could not see that Obelisk of course (due to issue).

So, the claim is - watch out for all 4 STATES. It may be important later.

Related to this - possible a fifth STATE.
- in Solo, we do get the server disconnect ... most often when perform a scan.
Suspecting the server is about to send your client some information, but communication collapses due to client/server error.
Why is this important?
Well, it may be just another STATE which we have not identified yet.

Please keep observing.
 
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Further to to UP data:

y3mG8lp43T0-NQoqcOWL6yZLzqp1Go6Fv-pVRnXlSzO841RgwRcsqvwOIvhIqDZrQ12T0K1YLpGPleD4qbPAMMJ-87O0aQ3aWQmgQoH8BTazd8Ma5YXd9sjPxhrHKoKPvCVZR73acYu1T2Ua40y7aeUlhf2mv6afM-g6InXO01l3u4


Does that make sense? It refers to the current Ancient ruins. Not sure what the other bits mean.
 
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That's 6.8122319e+19 possible combinations if order of events matters. Far less if order doesn't, but still a significant amount.

Personally, that's what I think is going on under the hood. There's certain events you need to trigger with certain things in certain ways, but because those conditions can "stack" in open or groups, you start to see things unlocking far easier.

Wow, if that's true, kind of makes it feel pointless even trying!

On anotjer note, previously people have solved puzzles in game in a matter of hours or days, FDev have even said they're getting solved too fast in some cases.

Maybe there are multiple ruin sites, since we have 3 weeks to complete, I reckon there's a chance the other sites are not even activated yet.

We will get to mess with this site for a week, then next week in a server cycle they will activate the second and give us a clue on where to find it, and the same again week three.

This guarantees the puzzle lasting longer than a few days.

So maybe there's no real reason for a mad rush?
 
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It certainly seems something isn't right with the way the puzzle is working in Solo. I can also confirm that the only way the obelisks reset for me in solo is if I relog. Otherwise they remain inactive.

No solid answer on this from Frontier however...

im checking this out while i work, ive activated 1 obelisk and now im just gonna sit there until it resets, i'll let you know how long it takes if it resets at all.
 
I wasn't convinced by Cdr Mengy's original map theory, seemed too suggestive of pareidolia; however I think there are sufficient indications in the messages decoded so far that it is highly likely there is simething about this ruins site that indicates where the other ruins are located. It might be the overall shape, it might be the glyphs on the base of the 3 sides of the beacons.

It might be worth a retry at Cdr Mengy's concept, or a completely fresh approach.

Now would be a good time to try to flesh out Mengy's measurements into x,y,z distances. At the moment the distances are in spherical, not x,y,z unless I've misunderstood how Mengy did the measurements.
 
#2B. Regarding the mission reward of 100 MCr. Oh no, make that 101MCr. FD - can someone not add up or something? 21 + 21 + 20 + 20 + 19 = 101. This only serves to add to our frustration.

This makes no sense to me. There is a 100 MCr bonus if you complete the mission. There are numerous 1 MCr rewards as you unlock each data packet.

Why would you assume the two have to add up to the same number?

The 100 MCr is a completion bonus, which you only get when you complete the mission. This would be on top of the other interim rewards.
 
Regarding #3.
This is not the usual "you have mail, you have to relog to be able to find it". it's the other kind that has been reported, where no trace of it can be found.
There is a slight chance that this is a different message - and a different trigger.

We tested it slightly on the livestream yesterday, we know how & where to produce it.
And a new special obelisk did light up for the tester.
For the rest of us, we could not see that Obelisk of course (due to issue).

This might point in the direction of doing a correct string. Go to obelisk x, ok scan, no reward yet, but activates another obelisk y(perhaps one outside the default 15), where you have to get the scan right on the first try, or the series resets again.
So a series of correct combinations at the correct obelisks.

Do we have a list of obelisk that return this 'empty' state 3? I'm to go and scan these, then drive around without scanning trying to find 'extra' obelisks.

I don't know but this feels like a very classic puzzle structure ...
 
I'll update my reflection on how many STATES the Obelisk has when scanning it.
0 - Nothing happens when you scan it, except you get data.
1 - You get a message saying "There is something, but not this combination". No payout. These messages can be delayed as usual due to the bugs we know.
2 - Properly decoded message and 1 mill bonus. These messages can be delayed as usual due to the bugs we know.
3 - You hear the inbox-sound, but not message. No bonus observed.

Regarding #3.
This is not the usual "you have mail, you have to relog to be able to find it". it's the other kind that has been reported, where no trace of it can be found.
There is a slight chance that this is a different message - and a different kind of trigger. And mail we're supposed to be able to read.

We tested it slightly on the livestream yesterday, we know how & where to produce it.
And a new special obelisk did light up for the tester.
For the rest of us, we could not see that Obelisk of course (due to issue).

So, the claim is - watch out for all 4 STATES. It may be important later.

Related to this - possible a fifth STATE.
- in Solo, we do get the server disconnect ... most often when perform a scan.
Suspecting the server is about to send your client some information, but communication collapses due to client/server error.
Why is this important?
Well, it may be just another STATE which we have not identified yet.

Please keep observing.
There's also a data already collected state, which appears before your scan finishes (and cancels the scan).
 
Actually, there's an abundance of information about instancing and scanning. Long story short, no, I don't think it's working properly in Open/PG, and it is actually working in solo correctly, but in Open/PG the effects of instancing and event registration cause what should be happening to solve the puzzle to essentially "break".

Makes complete sense, just wish we could figure out how open is getting different obelisks to light up, I've yet to see anything other than default 15 in solo / solo PG and am starting to run out of ideas. Still searching for something to indicate correct combinations:S

- - - Updated - - -

There's also a data already collected state, which appears before your scan finishes (and cancels the scan).

was that in open/PG/solo? Never seen that in solo so could be player interactions causing it?
 
Has anyone tried working in pairs or groups of 3, bringing more than 2 objects with them, and roving along together while seeing if anything lights up?

If that fails and this one site is not the sole source of the solution, I feel that if we've exhausted all 34 data from here, there needs to be a concerted move to find one or more additional sites.
 
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