General / Off-Topic Depending on their political stances: Clinton or Trump?

[Minonian]

Again, it is you that requires a holy knight. History attests to this pretty well, that any centralized authority depends on the creature running it - just as a sheep requires a shepherd,

You saying this as a necessarily bad thing. but it's not. You know why? because no matter how much you try how good you are? You can't be the best on everything, what means in some things you must rely on others skills and expertise, advice.

everything you advocate for depends on a personality cult.

Than again, why you think personality cult is a bad thing by definition? Is a bad thing to have a hero, whom you look upon it, and trying to grow up the standards he shows? For christ sake! Even you have personality cult by all the anarchists you keep quoting there just like an evangelist quoting the bible!

I have no such need nor do I need to care if anyone is good or evil, not merely because I am my own person but because my view comes down to strengthening the individual first and foremost.

Yeah... the power of invidiual? let me tell you something about it! A well organized weak team capable to take down a 20 time stronger and bigger force, if they have a good leader, and unlike em the other clan is a mess! And when i'm saying this, i saying this by experience. I did this! Not just once! Personal power? Is necessary! you know why? because any team can be just as strong than the weakest member. equal standing, and equal ground? Sounds good! But the thing is? if you are really good at something the others going to heed to your advice, and you going to end up in the top of the pyramid, whenever you like it, or not? This also happened to me. Not just once.

About good and bad? You don't belíve it and this is the part of your problem, because good and evil must exists out of necessity, just because standards must exists. You know why? So there is something to grow up! Same thing as heroes, gives you something to strive for! As far, it's not the result of brainwashing, and the goal is realistic, you don't take too far the "workship"?

It is not my fault you believe in a system that cannot be held to its own standards.

Ther is a difference between imperfection, and flaws VS intentional standard breaking. And in an imperfect world? Perfection is unreachable, standards included.

"Anarchy is no guarantee that some people won’t kill, injure, kidnap, defraud, or steal from others. Government is a guarantee that some will." – Gustave de Molinari

This is just a lie! Because because in both system there will be such atrocities, but without a force, to keep them in bay? In Anarchy the things will became much more worst.

 

[Cydramech]

You saying this as a necessarily bad thing. but it's not. You know why? because no matter how much you try how good you are? You can't be the best on everything, what means in some things you must rely on others skills and expertise, advice.

Straw-man. Relying on others for skills, expertise, or advise does not require a central authority.

Than again, why you think personality cult is a bad thing by definition? Is a bad thing to have a hero, whom you look upon it, and trying to grow up the standards he shows?

Having a hero does not equate to a personality cult.

For christ sake! Even you have personality cult by all the anarchists you keep quoting there just like an evangelist quoting the bible!

"A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods to create an idealized, heroic, and at times worshipful image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. Sociologist Max Weber developed a tripartite classification of authority; the cult of personality holds parallels with what Weber defined as "charismatic authority". A cult of personality is similar to divinization, except that it is established by mass media and propaganda usually by the state, especially in totalitarian (or sometimes authoritarian) states."

I don't give praise to men I quote for reasons other than what they state and do. I also do not use quotes as arguments from authority.

Yeah... the power of invidiual? let me tell you something about it! A well organized weak team capable to take down a 20 time stronger and bigger force, if they have a good leader, and unlike em the other clan is a mess! And when i'm saying this, i saying this by experience. I did this! Not just once!

That's nothing ado with anything I've said.

Personal power? Is necessary! you know why? because any team can be just as strong than the weakest member. equal standing, and equal ground? Sounds good! But the thing is? if you are really good at something the others going to heed to your advice, and you going to end up in the top of the pyramid, whenever you like it, or not? This also happened to me. Not just once.

A team can never be stronger than its weakest link, but again you're saying nothing.

About good and bad? You don't belíve it and this is the part of your problem, because good and evil must exists out of necessity, just because standards must exists. You know why? So there is something to grow up! Same thing as heroes, gives you something to strive for! As far, it's not the result of brainwashing, and the goal is realistic, you don't take too far the "workship"?

Ther is a difference between imperfection, and flaws VS intentional standard breaking. And in an imperfect world? Perfection is unreachable, standards included.

Once again, you're rambling on with incoherent thoughts.

This is just a lie! Because because in both system there will be such atrocities, but without a force, to keep them in bay? In Anarchy the things will became much more worst.

If that quote is a lie, prove it.

[video=youtube;su9OqvBbSD0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su9OqvBbSD0[/video]
The Decline and Fall of Private Law in Iceland by Roderick T. Long
Privatization, Viking Style: Model or Misfortune? by Roderick T. Long
Stateless Societies: Ancient Ireland
Government Can Be Prevented! Repelling States: Evidence from Upland Southeast Asia
Anarchy Never Before Tried? Pt.1 Pt.2 Pt.3 Pt.4 Pt.5 Pt.6
Introducing the Tarahumara
A City with Almost No Government

 

[Minonian]

You are just a preacher of the anarchy. And a really bad one.

For you own sake, just forget about it if you want to come along with some of the people in there. No one likes forceful conversionist, whom did not get the picture. So they are mostly end up beign shot down, or chased away.
People in there not buying your ware, and sooner you get the picture, is the better.
take your wares where others intrested in it. But let me assure you! You knocking in the wrong door, what means you wasting your time and mine.

EDIT; And if you think im going to talk with you because there is no one else? You are sadly mistaken. I don't like stupid people, and you are just stupid with a lot of quote from other people used as bullets.

Remeber! I'm an asperger syndromian autist, what means? If i have no one to talk to, I'm perfectly fine with that" i just don't care!

 

[Cydramech]

You are just a preacher of the anarchy. And a really bad one.

For you own sake, just forget about it if you want to come along with some of the people in there. No one likes forceful conversionist, whom did not get the picture. So they are mostly end up beign shot down, or chased away.
People in there not buying your ware, and sooner you get the picture, is the better.

Aw, now you've gone and hurt my feelings. What will I ever do!? Funny how you think I'm here to convert anyone... it's like you're trying to project yourself onto me.

 

[Minonian]

I only pulled you out from the ban list because i recognised you at the first minute to cast you down one more time. Becaus we both know who is the other aren't we?

This is where are you belongs. And this is where are you stay until the end of time... And nothing in this earth can change that. No matter what you do. You are not a crusader, or a jihadist, you are he worst of both.

Worst wishes from;
- Lancelot

BTW? Your problem with the law, and their enforcers? Simple! You can't do your things against others while such things are existing. this is the ugly reality beneath the facade of your big words and philosophy. You know what? Law exists against the like s of you! And considering the fact you ended up in america no fly list? Everything i said or tought about you is true from the first word until the last.

Edit; Criminal's problem with law and law enforcement is pretty simple isn't it? It's standing between him, and his prey. And if he find a nice ideology what's gives him the moral high ground, so he can lie even to himself? Even better! And as we can see, Some times they can even preaching their ideology.

Rise against the powerful and cast him down? Almost like communism instead of masses we talking about lone wolfes. No chance in hell! They can create an awfully big mess like the first Word War which is started by killing the Crown prince of the Austro-Hungarian monarchy, by one lone anarchist but this is the top of it. Without power base, you can't stabilize and spread your ideology.
That's a no go...
Lone Wolfes by destiny, and this is how this ever will be.
In the matter of fact? I think in some level this kind of thinking is even necessary the unworthy must go, and this is they are doing since they don't have a chance to cast down the good.

 

[Cydramech]

[Incoherence snipped]

You need to stop with the incoherent ramblings. Otherwise I will be forced to listen to the advice I received in a PM and just add you to my ignore list.

 

[Cargobane]

This thread was much better 50 pages ago.

 

[Patrick_68000]

This thread was much better 50 pages ago.

Perhaps it will eventually be locked ?

 

[Don Alvarez]

I think we'll all lose interest now. No misconceptions have been disproved, no minds have been changed, no middle ground has been found. Conversations die quickly when they achieve no result.

 

[Frank]

The real shame is that we won't be able to come back to this thread to gloat over being proved right because the EMP blasts will have shorted out all our computers.

 

[Rampant]

Anybody here got any comments on the first few days of Trump?

If you were in favour, are you still in favour of Trump? Or has something or things happened to make you question your support?

Just wondering...

Cheerz

 

[Arry]

Anybody here got any comments on the first few days of Trump?

If you were in favour, are you still in favour of Trump? Or has something or things happened to make you question your support?

Just wondering...

Cheerz

If they have the same mind-set as the man himself: They will find it hard to admit any errors or mistakes, they may have made.

 

[Riktar]

If they have the same mind-set as the man himself: They will find it hard to admit any errors or mistakes, they may have made.

It will be as it has been:

Democrat/Liberal gets elected: Conservative side of society points fingers at every wrong thing they see. Or think they see. Acknowledges little (if any) of things they see as good.

Republican/Conservative gets elected: Liberal side of society points fingers at every wrong thing they see. Or think they see. Acknowledges little (if any) of things they see as good.

Makes for multiple reading of both sides to try and find the truth.

Edit additional: It should be noted that Trump has been on both sides, depending on what point in time you want to look. Time will tell where he lands going forward.

I will be waiting with an open mind to see how it all shakes out.

 

[Arry]

It will be as it has been:

Democrat/Liberal gets elected: Conservative side of society points fingers at every wrong thing they see. Or think they see. Acknowledges little (if any) of things they see as good.

Republican/Conservative gets elected: Liberal side of society points fingers at every wrong thing they see. Or think they see. Acknowledges little (if any) of things they see as good.

Makes for multiple reading of both sides to try and find the truth.

Edit additional: It should be noted that Trump has been on both sides, depending on what point in time you want to look. Time will tell where he lands going forward.

I will be waiting with an open mind to see how it all shakes out.

Agreed: As long as you can find the facts instead of the propaganda.

To clarify what I mean.

Trump: We will ban all Muslims entering the USA.

World: Why?

Trump: Terrorism, of course.

World: Err. there have been no attacks by foreign nationals on US soil for a decade.

Trump: 911!!! The old republican fear stick.

World: Err. Only 4 of the 19 people involved in 911 come from countries on the list you have just banned?

 

[Rampant]

What I actually meant was that I remember some posters saying that he would "clean the swamp". Being an impartial observer on the people placed in certain positions, it appears to me that he has done, and will continue to do no such thing.

I mean, a "climate change denialist" being placed as head of EPA?

The gagging order on Science...

Just wondered what Trump's erstwhile supporters in this thread thought about things like that?

Cheerz

 

[Arry]

What I actually meant was that I remember some posters saying that he would "clean the swamp". Being an impartial observer on the people placed in certain positions, it appears to me that he has done, and will continue to do no such thing.

I mean, a "climate change denialist" being placed as head of EPA?

The gagging order on Science...

Just wondered what Trump's erstwhile supporters in this thread thought about things like that?

Cheerz

Maybe you need to start a new thread to get the feedback, this thread has become a bit toxic every now and then.

 

[Rampant]

I'm sure a new thread would run the same risk of becoming equally toxic, but wouldn't have the benefit of being attached to an historic poll...

On balance, keeping the discussion here is probably the better option.

 

[Thomas Mainwaring]

Anybody here got any comments on the first few days of Trump?

I probably wouldn't have voted for him if I were American, but I do like how quickly he is actually doing the things he said he would do on the campaign trail.

 

[Rampant]

I probably wouldn't have voted for him if I were American, but I do like how quickly he is actually doing the things he said he would do on the campaign trail.

Well, there's something positive. What is your opinion, though, on the things themselves?
(I seem to remember, though, that he said he would "drain the swamp". If he has done that, then my interpretation of draining the swamp is different...)

 

[Adept]

Finland's previous Government was a rainbow coalition of six parties. They didn't get much done, and people complained endlessly about it.

A millionaire businessman won the Premiership by promising to get busy and actually produce results, and people voted for him out of frustration. He's been busy selling the country to his cronies for the last two years, and dismantling our education system and welfare state.

The lesson here is, "getting things done" is not actually valuable in itself. Only those things that actually improve the situation should "get done", the others should be obstructed and stopped.