The State of Piracy

[Minonian]

Precisely why we need to band together and ask for FD for a real crime and punishment system, otherwise the only winners here are those that either want to boil up easy targets and those that just despise piracy as a mechanic in ED.

Allow me to be honest!
I don't like it either too much if we ever meet in game? one of us are going to run or fight. This is how it goes... (i think we both know that right? ) But in general terms I'm agree with you, and if you think this petition seriously? You can add my name to the list.

 

[Sterling MH]

I've never been pirated in the game. Not since the release of the game, playing with 12 weeks online time (none of that just afk'ing all night with scripts to click buttons for me or botting). So as far as i'm concerned, there is no piracy in Elite. Just npcs that say some garbage before you shoot their face off.

The demand for battles to be quick will guarantee that piracy is never a thing in elite unless you opt into playing the role of the victim. Which defeats the purpose of piracy.

But another thread says that nobody was there. So either one of you is lying or the anecdotes like this are unreliable.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Whoosh of goalposts here? "difference between the two" WHAT?

Because I was being berated by them for bringing someone up for using "combat logging" for "Logged out of the game while combat was imminent".

There's combat logging, as defined by FD, which is a serious claim here, and there's "damaging the morale of pirates", which my response was to.

IF they wanted to say it wasn't the latter, and that it was the former, then they should not be telling me I'm wrong, should they?

If you want any further help with logic and discourse, feel free to ask around.

Hah... you either didn't understand the post you replied to which I gave reference for or you are trolling.

I'm afraid that it's the latter at this rate considering our recent interactions.

the term clogging referrs to people leaving the game ungraceful,
without resorting to 15 seconds timer.

Nope. It has an actually defined meaning and it's basically killing the task. Using the menu ***IS NOT CLOGGING***.

Just admit you made a mistake and move on, it's not embarrassing to admit that you didn't understand or didn't read something properly.

- - - Updated - - -

Allow me to be honest!
I don't like it either too much if we ever meet in game? one of us are going to run or fight. This is how it goes... (i think we both know that right? ) But in general terms I'm agree with you, and if you think this petition seriously? You can add my name to the list.

I might draft a petition soon just to see how this PvE heavy forum responds to the idea.

 

[Darth Ender]

But another thread says that nobody was there. So either one of you is lying or the anecdotes like this are unreliable.

Not sure what thread you're talking about. But i've never been in a situation where an npc or player has pirated me. I'd be very inclined to believe anyone stupid enough to allow themselves the time for piracy to occur are preying on new players or the victim party is role playing along purposely. Otherwise they're incredibly bad at playing the game.

 

[GluttonyFang]

And it would help if any PvPer upset someone left the game stopped trying to make the problem out that FD is not dealing with CLing were told by other PvPers that this was not right.

Else claims will be investigated and dropped and those unable to see the difference will feel it right to strike back at FD for not getting those pesky CLers.

I unfortunately have to ask you to rephrase for clarity's sake.

And there will never be a fixed PvP system.

There shouldn't be a PvP system, there should be a functional sandbox.

 

[Minonian]

Sterling is a newbie, deal with him accordingly.

 

[Sterling MH]

Just admit you made a mistake and move on, it's not embarrassing to admit that you didn't understand or didn't read something properly.

WHERE? All you've done is show the other blaming me for getting it wrong by telling me what I said is the right thing, but only when they said it.

Look, if you want to tell them they made a mistake, go ahead. Don't tell me.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Sterling is a newbie, deal with him accordingly.

I am trying to be patient and showing him/her the ropes of this forum, I hope he/she catches on soon.

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WHERE? All you've done is show the other blaming me for getting it wrong by telling me what I said is the right thing, but only when they said it.

Look, if you want to tell them they made a mistake, go ahead. Don't tell me.

...

Hah... just...

Nvm, move on, this isn't even amusing enough to warrant a chuckle.

 

[Sterling MH]

Not sure what thread you're talking about.

"I might as well be in Solo" thread. or something like that.

But i've never been in a situation where an npc or player has pirated me.

Yeah, but that gets back to "Anecdotes are unreliable proof for claims".

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the term clogging referrs to people leaving the game ungraceful,
without resorting to 15 seconds timer.

Originally Posted by Sterling MH View Post (Source)
Nope. It has an actually defined meaning and it's basically killing the task. Using the menu ***IS NOT CLOGGING***.


----

Yup, and Alt-F4 to kill the process was the example given of "ungraceful exit", It even said, "For example".

If you log out of the game, it's not an ungraceful exit. If you kill the task it is.

And the OP I started on used "damages the morale of pirates".

Care to find the place where you or the other complained about that users redefining of the term???

hmm?

And you don'teven have "They're a noob" as an excuse.

----

I've been told that it's the menu logout that starts the 15 sec timer. If it were changed to 5 sec (or 5 min), the claim "without the 15 second timer" would be wrong.

 

[Sterling MH]

Originally Posted by Sterling MH View Post (Source)
But you call anything where the oppo leaves the game as cloging. It isn't on FD forums, please stop using it. It's as irrelevant here as "Griefers are a problem" in a pvp piracy thread.
----
Incorrect, the term clogging referrs to people leaving the game ungraceful,

---and thatcame from---

Originally Posted by Julio Montega View Post (Source)
Clogging is a prob,
---from---
Originally Posted by Goose4291 View Post (Source)
I like it, but we still have the same problem.

Its too easy and quick to submit and highwake or use the menu (if your a decent sort) or rip your internet cable out for such systems to work.

---If you want to see the "demoralising" definition, see capt murica:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/326007-What-happened-to-the-Code

 

[Goose4291]

Not sure what thread you're talking about. But i've never been in a situation where an npc or player has pirated me. I'd be very inclined to believe anyone stupid enough to allow themselves the time for piracy to occur are preying on new players or the victim party is role playing along purposely. Otherwise they're incredibly bad at playing the game.

It used to happen back in the day, before we knew about high wakes and when everyone wasnt flying fdls and Annies.

Not so much now though

 

[Darth Ender]

"I might as well be in Solo" thread. or something like that.



Yeah, but that gets back to "Anecdotes are unreliable proof for claims".

All you have is your own experience to base opinions on as there are no "Elite Experts". So trust in others opinions accordingly as they're all opinions. Some with more convincing evidence or facts than others.

You can have players that have not ventured out of the range of say a 30ly bubble and it may happen to be a hot zone of pvp and such activity and they'll come out with the opinion that elite is a gank fest etc. Another player could be 20ly away and have a totally different experience ...not just in a session but across the year.

The thing is piracy requires combat to be a very risky venture that is time consuming and dangerous for both parties. So long as battles typically last less than a minute with npcs and not much longer against players ...if a battle at all occurs since running is usually an option, that will never be the case.

If a player is faced with an attack and can't fight and doesn't make the move to run immediately then they've basically decided to die. There's zero incentive not to kill them, since there's almost no chance that they're going to drop cargo as that is a time consuming process that takes their eyes off of the main screen as well.

Likewise, if they can attack, there's no sense to drop cargo because you can either run and survive or kill them in 30 seconds and be done.

Put as much penalty systems as you want in the game to deal with pvp issues, it wont create an environment for piracy to occur. You'll just have eliminated it from happening in a different way.

It's a lot to ask to happen for the sake of a very minimal means of income in the game that lets you stack missions and make millions while you sleep.

 

[Goose4291]

Originally Posted by Sterling MH View Post (Source)
But you call anything where the oppo leaves the game as cloging. It isn't on FD forums, please stop using it. It's as irrelevant here as "Griefers are a problem" in a pvp piracy thread.
----
Incorrect, the term clogging referrs to people leaving the game ungraceful,

---and thatcame from---

Originally Posted by Julio Montega View Post (Source)
Clogging is a prob,
---from---
Originally Posted by Goose4291 View Post (Source)
I like it, but we still have the same problem.

Its too easy and quick to submit and highwake or use the menu (if your a decent sort) or rip your internet cable out for such systems to work.

Im suspecting a language barrier issue here.

When I refer to someone as a decent sort, I mean theyre using the menu to exit (not combat logging).
What I was saying is that even then, youve got 15 seconds to try to make your demands known and get them acknowlwdged, and seen as you can log out mid interdiction now, Julios idea wouldnt work in the current framework necause by the time youve dragged the trader into normal space, theyve disconnected.

 

[GluttonyFang]

It used to happen back in the day, before we knew about high wakes and when everyone wasnt flying fdls and Annies.

Not so much now though

Now it's about containment missile and people refusing to fit point defense or flying in a straight line. It will always be something. I think we should be concerned with the balance between the predator and the victim through means of crime and punishment, not whether people are knowledgeable of existing mechanics. If the AIs give people more reason to use high wake back in the day, I'm sure more players would have caught on.

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That's just in terms of pve. Where the human player knows the computer has to play by defined rules and isn't going to detour. PvP piracy is a joke and a half. Put as much penalty systems as you want in the game, it wont create an environment for piracy to occur. You'll just have eliminated it from happening in a different way. Battles need to be drawn out and difficult to escape from and difficult to win and you have to stop the behavior of trading ships going about as un-armed cargo ships. A lot to ask to happen for the sake of a very minimal means of income in the game that lets you stack missions and make millions while you sleep.

Drawn out piracy should only happen in Anarchy, or really organized piracy crew holding out against system security in secured systems to a degree. But I agree the game doesn't challenge the players enough to be prepared for player interception.

 

[Sterling MH]

All you have is your own experience to base opinions on as there are no "Elite Experts".

No I'm not making any claim on that. You claim you'vebene touring on open for 12 weeks and never been pvp pirated, on another thread, another pvp who plays pirate is lamenting that they're no longer finding anyone to play pirates and wenches with.

This proves anecdote is insufficient for proof of claims.

If I make a claim there are no elite pilots in the game, and say of never finding them, THEN you can complain. 'K?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Im suspecting a language barrier issue here.

I suspected that a long time ago.

 

[Goose4291]

Now it's about containment missile and people refusing to fit point defense or flying in a straight line. It will always be something. I think we should be concerned with the balance between the predator and the victim through means of crime and punishment, not whether people are knowledgeable of existing mechanics. If the AIs give people more reason to use high wake back in the day, I'm sure more players would have caught on.

You're right, we should be.

I was just highlighting to Darth as an open trader who 'suffered' at your kinds hands more than once back in the day, how you could have ended up in that situation (the classic hauler vs. Viper/cobra issues back in the day).

Good times

 

[GluttonyFang]

You're right, we should be.

I was just highlighting to Darth as an open trader who 'suffered' at your kinds hands more than once back in the day, how you could have ended up in that situation (the classic hauler vs. Viper/cobra issues back in the day).

Good times

It was good times indeed. I remember pirating in a Cobra, and stupidly try to take on an Asp that boiled me up.

But hey, it did inspire me to join The Code.

Wish players can find this kind of authentic experience even now, but I have my doubts.

 

[Darth Ender]

No I'm not making any claim on that. You claim you'vebene touring on open for 12 weeks and never been pvp pirated, on another thread, another pvp who plays pirate is lamenting that they're no longer finding anyone to play pirates and wenches with.

This proves anecdote is insufficient for proof of claims.

If I make a claim there are no elite pilots in the game, and say of never finding them, THEN you can complain. 'K?

your other story doesn't negate anything. He's upset nobody is roleplaying anymore. That's probably true. Why would they? The active playerbase is not as large as it was when the game was new. The state of how piracy is done has worn on people who may have held out that it might improve. I dont see anything wrong with his statement. I highly doubt he's finding anyone to role play the victim. You'd be an idiot to as a stranger.

Plus you can go around for days and not find people. Everything is about location but there's also the instancing issues in the game and just the general fractionalization of the playerbase due to modes.

An anecdote may not be sufficient as absolute proof, but it's proof enough in practicality. You show me honest to goodness piracy and I'll show you a player who can't play the game. Honest piracy is against the will of the victim ...not something they agree to do because they want to role play.

 

[Sterling MH]

your other story doesn't negate anything.

I didn't say it negated anything, but that two different people at the same time both on open see different situations.

So you've seen there are no pirates attacking you.

Works for you, then.

Others have seen several. So it's a problem for them.

How much simpler do you need this?

And he's upset nobody wants to be on the thin end of a pirate stick. Talk about missing the point...