General / Off-Topic Blatant and Obvious !!!

[Don Alvarez]

I dont see the tone of yer op as indicating the desire to debate anything...thats a hate filled rant and nothing else. Brave guy who answers that one...good luck with it ^

Exactly.

Where was the hate ? I'm serious....why do you think there was hatred ? i understand right wing mindsets, but i don't understand how anyone can support trump's actions, i made my points without insulting any individual members, now i'm asking for the opposing view.

Perhaps not hate, but your tone is easily inflammatory. Things like:

... but this is driving me crazy, how can the Trump supporters not see it ?

"hey Donald, is it because you have business interests in the KSA ?

Perhaps he does not like the US constitution which also prohibits the religious test.

My fith and final point, obvious to everyone that is not completely blind and deaf, how can anyone believe this guy ?

It is BLATANTLY obvious that Trump is not only being unamerican (according to the constitution), but is also in the process of betraying his own voters, these quickfire executive orders are just to cover that up. No amount of "alternative facts" will fool those of us with minds of our own...

they don't exactly invite the type of good natured debate you seem to be seeking. Especially that last bit, typical of the Democrat's message throughout the election, is a thinly veiled broad indictment of his voter's intelligence level and therefore not likely to begin any discussion on a reasonable level, as you've already opened with name-calling.

If you really want an honest discussion, close this down, revisit the topic without emotion, and try again.

 

[Javert]

There has been the massive issue that you can't just release some of these people who actually are dangerous. Note I'm not saying their position is lawful just that it is unlikely that every single detainee is totally innocent even if some were and due process has not been followed.

Well if they weren't dangerous before, they probably will be now.

 

[Don Alvarez]

The next problem is; who takes over after he is removed?

That's no problem, rules of succession are clear, in any event it falls to Pence.

 

[Arry]

That's no problem, rules of succession are clear, in any event it falls to Pence.

Who has the sense and experience to 'make the changes' legally. As it were.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Who has the sense and experience to 'make the changes' legally. As it were.

I assume you mean to remove Trump? There's a couple different ways to go about it - the most logical, Impeachment, would begin in the House of Representatives.

 

[verminstar]

Where was the hate ? I'm serious....why do you think there was hatred ? i understand right wing mindsets, but i don't understand how anyone can support trump's actions, i made my points without insulting any individual members, now i'm asking for the opposing view.

No hatred then ye go onto claim ye know right wing mindsets...cute ^

The hate is in the tone...just because ye cant see it doesnt mean others dont either.

As fer supporting him...I support what he stands for but not the man himself. He is a fool and a dangerous fool, but if the establishment doesnt like him, then the enemy of my enemy and all that...and I hate the establishment above all others. Perhaps this Trump debacle will wake people up to the fact that what we had before simply wasnt working, and the recent surge in voting fer anti establishment values might start to get people thinking...people who, up until now, were quite happy sticking their head in the sand and ignoring the real issues that matter. Simply calling those issue racist and wrong doesnt mean they go away...it means that those who have these concerns are not listened to and the issue fester like an untreated wound.

Both brexit and Trump are a message that we are sick and tired of being ignored, so instead of just throwing toxic names at the people who have been ignored fer decades, why not try something original like try and see the issues from anywhere else other than an ivory tower. Yer looking fer someone to blame...yer in no way trying to understand what caused so many to vote fer these things and the issues wont go away until they are dealt with in a more civil manner. Shutting down arguments with accusations of racism and right wing fascism isnt dealing with the issues...its attempting to ignore them which is arguably why this happened in the first place.

Dont make the mistakes that europeans made. Oh and my own politics are further to the right but I can assure you, ye understand nothing about how my mind works.

 

[Morbad]

let's wait at least a year, before condemning a politician.

Why do you need to wait to condemn acts being done now?

Toddler is your president, unfortunately. That's a fact. He's an official symbol of your coutry (lol) just like the flag or anthem. You have two options - accept it like a good insignificant cizizen, or break the law and try to do something about it. But if your little revolution won't succeed, you'll be probably one head shorter.

I've never had a President or defined myself by the geopolitical boundaries around me.

I'm just going to back to evading taxes like I've been doing pretty much since I was supposed to start paying them. It's amazing what you can get away with when they don't have any record of you not getting away with it to set off red flags.

 

[Adept]

The next problem is; who takes over after he is removed?

Mike *beeping* Pence. The Christian Dominionist champion of the Quiverful project. It will be swapping an insane fascist for a Christian Theocracy fancying zealot. Still, I don't think Pence is clinically insane, or ready to dismantle the USA, so it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Arry]

I assume you mean to remove Trump? There's a couple different ways to go about it - the most logical, Impeachment, would begin in the House of Representatives.

No: I mean to implement the extremest far right ideals, such as using that bit of Cuba, which is out side the jurisdiction of the constitution.

Trump is using brute force to try change things to his own demands. Someone like Pence would be a little more subtle, but achieve the same desired results.

 

[Morbad]

Mike *beeping* Pence. The Christian Dominionist champion of the Quiverful project. It will be swapping an insane fascist for a Christian Theocracy fancying zealot. Still, I don't think Pence is clinically insane, or ready to dismantle the USA, so it's a step in the right direction.

I'm fairly sure Pence would prove you wrong should something ever happen to Trump.

 

[Adept]

As fer supporting him...I support what he stands for but not the man himself. He is a fool and a dangerous fool, but if the establishment doesnt like him, then the enemy of my enemy and all that...and I hate the establishment above all others. Perhaps this Trump debacle will wake people up to the fact that what we had before simply wasnt working, and the recent surge in voting fer anti establishment values might start to get people thinking...people who, up until now, were quite happy sticking their head in the sand and ignoring the real issues that matter.

Mate, Trump doesn't give a fig for the things that matter to you. He's a Fascist. Not used as a slur, or exaggeration. Trump literally is a fascist. He used the "man of the people" rhetoric to get into power, but what he actually cares about is being the boss. If you disagree with him on anything, you're a traitor and need to shut up. If you won't shut up, you need to be locked away or shot.

So... you "support what he stands for"? Even now?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm fairly sure Pence would prove you wrong should something ever happen to Trump.

How is that? You think he'll come to... er, come away from Jesus(?) and decide that women can actually have control of their fertility afterall? That queer and trans people deserve to be protected from discrimination? I don't see why you think that would happen.

How do you expect him to "prove me wrong"? Will he turn out to be all about tolerance and equal treatment for all? A born again feminist maybe?

 

[Morbad]

I expect Pence to be worse than Trump by most any metric you've mentioned.

Trump's only saving grace is how overt and belligerent he is, he engenders resistance where someone less blatant might be able to get more done.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Mate, Trump doesn't give a fig for the things that matter to you. He's a Fascist. Not used as a slur, or exaggeration. Trump literally is a fascist. He used the "man of the people" rhetoric to get into power, but what he actually cares about is being the boss. If you disagree with him on anything, you're a traitor and need to shut up. If you won't shut up, you need to be locked away or shot.

So... you "support what he stands for"? Even now?

yeah, well, like I said. Good way to invite honest debate, parrot what the Nazty memes are saying some more. That's a productive discussion.

 

[TheAntitheist Crusader]

Just a quick defence of my tone, it's aggressive, but not hatefull or inflammatory, i'm not on a witch hunt for right wingers, i just want answers. When i said i understood the right wing mindset it wasn't meant as offence, in fact i understand it because i happen to feel strongly against Islamic terror myself , in fact i'd support a burqa ban here in the UK, even a faith school ban (the hard leftist part of me). But some lines should never be crossed, such as banning individuals from a specific religion from entering the country that they live in, worked for, or fled to after being promised a better life, all to please American Christian right wingers.

 

[Monk]

You can bet that Pence would do his best to implement an Evangelical Christian Theocracy.

 

[Iskariot]

Sorry about another Trump related thread, but this is driving me crazy, how can the Trump supporters not see it ? He has no plan or desire to keep America safe from terror by doing this ban, let's assume i wanted to ban Muslims from certain countries like the Trump supporters do, first i'd be asking why Trump excludes Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (two biggest exporters of terror), second i'd be asking "hey Donald, is it because you have business interests in the KSA ? Third, If it's not really a Muslim ban then why are you prioritising the entry of Christians ? Four, Why won't he do this through the proper channels ? Perhaps he does not like the US constitution which also prohibits the religious test. My fith and final point, obvious to everyone that is not completely blind and deaf, how can anyone believe this guy ? Campaigns on anti immigration wall, has no way of making mexico pay for it, campaigns on Anti Muslim terror but excludes the worst countries from his ban list whilst doing more good for the enemy than his own people, campaigns on Anti Elitism yet he represents the very worst of it, not to mention his cabinet picks being all about big corporation profit. It is BLATANTLY obvious that Trump is not only being unamerican (according to the constitution), but is also in the process of betraying his own voters, these quickfire executive orders are just to cover that up. No amount of "alternative facts" will fool those of us with minds of our own. My queston to readers of this thread is simple, With facts, can you justify Trump's actions ?

I agree.
To me it resembles Seltzer's Omen books.
So many of those right wing US christians voted for someone strongly resembling the duplicitous lying anti-christ and are completely blind to it.
I am so surprised that they would vote for someone so blatantly contrarian to everything their faith should be about.
I feel nothing but disgust for what is happening over there.
I am really sorry for all those US citizens who didn't want this.

 

[Monk]

To me it resembles Seltzer's Omen books.
So many of those right wing US christians voted for someone strongly resembling the duplicitous lying anti-christ and are completely blind to it.
I am so surprised that they would vote for someone so blatantly contrarian to everything their faith should be about.

For a lot of the Trump voters that don't represent the 20% "base" of GOP support of Trump...their mantra, similar to the democrats, was "Anyone but her"

 

[verminstar]

Mate, Trump doesn't give a fig for the things that matter to you. He's a Fascist. Not used as a slur, or exaggeration. Trump literally is a fascist. He used the "man of the people" rhetoric to get into power, but what he actually cares about is being the boss. If you disagree with him on anything, you're a traitor and need to shut up. If you won't shut up, you need to be locked away or shot.

So... you "support what he stands for"? Even now?

There are certain aspects of things he supports that I find common ground with...others not so much. Specifically what those aspects are, I shall refrain from sharing as they are not relevant on this thread. In truth as in the US and the UK, those who attempt to ignore the issues by throwing all sorts of accusations at them can go back to burying their head in the sand while the rest of us try and see if the issues can be resolved...one way or another.

Im not being intentionally malicious about it, but I have less patience now than at the start. If amerians dont like the guy, then just do a Kennedy on him and be done with it...and no, Im really not joking about that.

Its been two weeks and if the sky is falling down again, Ill start thinking there yoyos hidden in the clouds. What will be will be...really not an awful lot anyone can do about it unless they remove him or kill him.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The next problem is; who takes over after he is removed?

He is on the list

 

[FuzzySpider]

yeah, well, like I said. Good way to invite honest debate, parrot what the Nazty memes are saying some more. That's a productive discussion.

There is a major problem though. There is no debate to be had on a lot of Trumps activities.

There is no global warming "debate", there is only the question of what we should do to prevent it.

There is no "debate" on whether or not an attorney general should enforce every single edict a president gives, there is only the question of why they should sometimes refuse.

There is no "debate" on whether arbitrarily banning entire demogaphic groups from entering a country based on who they are is prejudiced and intolerant, there is only the question of where it can lead if it isn't stopped.

There is no "debate" on the matter of "alternative facts", only the question of what to do about an administration which is entirely dishonest and decietful.

To try and debate Trumps first week is to normalize what is the start of a fascist dictator trying to get a grip on a population through skapegoating, victimization of groups he hates, and propaganda.