COMBAT LOGGING solution -= EASY and WORKING =-

[CylonSurfer]

Or you can just temporary reduce the income rate or introduce some penalty of frequent combat loggers, really you can't have connection that bad

I'm just gonna pull up a chair and wait for that one forum member that claims he or she does. Won't be long now...

 

[Masagmarod]

That's what I don't quite get. Don't people who combat log already realize that combat logging means you lost the encounter? Combat loggers are by definition: losers. If they are only worried about their pride, then combat logging should be the last thing anyone would do.

So either they are in complete denial about what it means to combat log, or it really is all about the money.

See I think that in a way the combat logger see the act as a win for them. If you attack me and I log on you I deny you the kill, which in that way means I won. There are people on here that are elite in Trading (that I have seen in threads, no direct link because I'm not digging to find it) that will log with at least a billion dollars in the bank, it's not all about the rebuy.

 

[Ziljan]

Well, your idea is well... not a solution, but a potential perk of doing a singular gameplay mode within Elite Dangerous.

Such ideas generally backfire rapidly, and is why we can't have nice things. Ideas such as this legitimately would need to spider out to encompass all aspects and avenues of the game.

Hey Brett can you explain to us why you think this is not a solution and what gameplay mode it would give a perk to and how? Apart from CQC style CR-irrelevant fun, the benefits of lethal PVP are extremely low or non-existent, so I don't see the "perk" you speak of?

The only potential for abuse here that I see is money transfer via bounty rewards, and bounties take a long time to build up and can be transferred via sidewinder sacrifice already (in theory).

 

[Zambrick]

Hey Brett can you explain to us why you think this is not a solution and what gameplay mode it would give a perk to and how? Apart from CQC style CR-irrelevant fun, the benefits of lethal PVP are extremely low or non-existent, so I don't see the "perk" you speak of?

The only potential for abuse here that I see is money transfer via bounty rewards, and bounties take a long time to build up and can be transferred via sidewinder sacrifice already (in theory).

I think it would give the perk to Open mode.

The first and most prevalent exploit that would be unstoppable would be to wipe out all bounties on you by having a friend blow you away while sitting in a
sidewinder.

Second would be the fact that if you are winged up with a friend and an NPC is beating up on you and your friend is about to die. So instead you shoot your friend and blow them up for next to nothing in a rebuy cost.

Those are just 2. I am sure there would be many other ways to exploit that.

 

[RhymeRhyme]

I think it would give the perk to Open mode.

The first and most prevalent exploit that would be unstoppable would be to wipe out all bounties on you by having a friend blow you away while sitting in a
sidewinder.

Second would be the fact that if you are winged up with a friend and an NPC is beating up on you and your friend is about to die. So instead you shoot your friend and blow them up for next to nothing in a rebuy cost.

Those are just 2. I am sure there would be many other ways to exploit that.

your first point: If I want to get rid of bounties, I buy a sidewinder and let a station blow me up. So, no problem here. I did that multiple times.

your 2nd point: Whoosh, well, how many situations would that really be? And is it asured that the last shot hits your friend and it's not the one of the NPC etc.? This is not really a situation that has to be taken into consideration.

For sure there might be people who are really into the game and use it as an exploit. But I don't think that this, in any way, will outweight the benefits to finally get a good step ahead with the combat logging problem. And even if there are some guys making money with it, who cares? It has no impact on my gameplay anyway. Robigo had no impact so as Ceos and Sothis. Let people make trillzillions of money, it doesn't matter. And if you encounter a pilot who used an "exploit" created by enhancing the combat log problem, it doens't matter at all.

 

[Jdude1]

(despite having friendly pirate macros etc)

Isn't this against the EULA too?

 

[RhymeRhyme]

Well over 90% of the combat logging that occurs is because a wing of FDLs interdicts a T7 or some other such non combat ship with the intention of killing it for no reason.

So until that kind of behavior is punished very very harshly, then I dont see it as being a feasible solution. Combat logging is the symptom of having an unrealistic Game environment. Fix the game first. Then punish when there is no excuse.

PvP encounters should be about skill, not punishment. Punishment is IMHO the total wrong approach here. The game doesn't give a solution here, so punishing players is the wrong answer. A game like Battlefield works so well because player interaction does not cost you days and weeks of work. The game is designed to let you measure your strengh against other player stenghts and skills. It's just fun and it's about skill! That is the main driver here. But if I get punished, I loose interest pretty quickly because I get frustrated.

 

[Ziljan]

The first and most prevalent exploit that would be unstoppable would be to wipe out all bounties on you by having a friend blow you away while sitting in a
sidewinder.

It's like you didn't read my post man. Sidewinder bounty cashing already exists because the sidewinder costs 0 CR already. Last time I checked 10% of zero is still zero.

Suicidewinder bounty zeroing works just as well in Solo or PG. So not sure what you're talking about here. A sentient trigger works as well as an NPC cop, or ramming a station.

Also I said above, accumulating a bounty similar to a normal NPC takes SEVERAL HOURS or even DAYS, because the maximum bounty gain rate is a meret 7000 CR per murder. So killing a friend to cash in money would take far more time that just transferring imperial slaves or nerve agents even 1T at a time (17000 CR per ton).

Second would be the fact that if you are winged up with a friend and an NPC is beating up on you and your friend is about to die. So instead you shoot your friend and blow them up for next to nothing in a rebuy cost.

Choosing to instead kill your "friend" isn't exactly what I'd call a friendly nor smart move under any circumstances, and I doubt they'd thank you, unless they were a few eggs shy of a full dozen. If you can control someone's death timing enough to kill them first, it means they're getting killed slowly enough that they had plenty of time to escape or be saved by you stealing aggro. So anyone that shoots me to "save me" is instantly going on my KOS list.

Again, I can see no perk here. Maybe Brett C is aware of an issue that we players are not?

 

[Zambrick]

your first point: If I want to get rid of bounties, I buy a sidewinder and let a station blow me up. So, no problem here.

your 2nd point: Whoosh, well, how many situations would that really be? And is it asured that the last shot hits your friend and it's not the one of the NPC etc.? This is not really a situation that has to be taken into consideration.

Yep so whats the point of doing it? Why code and do all that work in order to change nothing and give an advantage Solo mode. Mission synergy and long distance free travel.

Your rebuttal for my first point should never be possible and is broken. If you are a criminal and are committing crimes as such a level that you feel the need to duck out of your bounties, then this should not be possible. As soon as you commit a crime in your ship the rebuy cost of that ship will now be part of the fines you incur. This current exploit should have never happened and I am surprised its still possible in the current game.

So if you die because you were killing noobs in your combat Corvette, then you jump into a sidewinder to get rid of the bounties, the cost of the rebuy from the corvette would be applied to rebuy cost of sidewinder. You can either choose to pay it all or if you cant afford it, then you lost it. Then to combat the fact that you would be most definitely would transfer all of your stored modules to your hold before you did the rebuy trick, then the code would need to remove the stored modules that match the modules in the ship when you committed the crime if you cant afford to rebuy the ship.

20k ly outside of the bubble not worrying about the scans and you just want to go back to the bubble. Have your friend blow you away and boom back in the Bubble with a tiny rebuy. There are many other ways.

Feeling too lazy to fly back to the station to rearm and repair from a CZ turn off crimes committed against me and have your friend kill you.

I provided 2 and now 3 methods of possible exploits. I could add many more but all of them have to do with long range travel and or ducking the cost of being a criminal.

 

[zxalexis]

PvP encounters should be about skill, not punishment. Punishment is IMHO the total wrong approach here. The game doesn't give a solution here, so punishing players is the wrong answer. A game like Battlefield works so well because player interaction does not cost you days and weeks of work. The game is designed to let you measure your strengh against other player stenghts and skills. It's just fun and it's about skill! That is the main driver here. But if I get punished, I loose interest pretty quickly because I get frustrated.

Oh, I think you misunderstood "the punishment" solution - it can be in-game punishment for PvP in high-security systems. At least none of police ships are dangerous now for engeneered PvP ship, and that's annoying a little.

 

[Becky]

- LOWER the rebuy costs if attacked/destroyed by a real CMDR to 1/10th of the regular rebuy costs

Even if rebuy was 1cr; I'd still mode switch rather than get into a PvP fight.
I hate pvp; lowering the rebuy wont change a thing as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Duedy]

And here I thought COmbat Logging was when another player caught you unawares with a devastating attack and you left a brown streak in your drawers. You know ..."Dropped a Log", "Left Skid Marks", "Shat a Brick"

No that's called Combat Leggings

 

[xondk]

- LOWER the rebuy costs if attacked/destroyed by a real CMDR to 1/10th of the regular rebuy costs

- KEEP rebuy costs as is if attacked/killed by NPC

= 50% to 70% less combat logging


____________________
Why?

- Combat logging is only annoying for real PvP situations in which a CMDR attacks another one.
- If you don't have to grind hardcore for the rebuy costs, the will to stay in the game is way higher. 30 mio. credits rebuy for a Corvette is hard grind work. People LOG OFF and it's comprehensible
- No PvE aspect of the game will be touched
- Beginners do not loose all they have if they get attacked by a PvP player. Even they can afford 1/10th of the regular rebuy costs and they gain experience in fighting
- Everyone is happy, pirating will work more often again, player fight interaction is good fun, beginners gain experience, PvPers are happy after destroying ships, PvP is more fun for everyone, PvE not touchet... Whooohhhhhhhhh! That's really working...

Generally I don't think it is the rebuy that is the concern but it can be for some, most seem to just dislike the fact that they are at the whim of some random persons impulses and wishes to be a jerk.

 

[lokvette]

That's what I don't quite get. Don't people who combat log already realize that combat logging means you lost the encounter? Combat loggers are by definition: losers. If they are only worried about their pride, then combat logging should be the last thing anyone would do.

So either they are in complete denial about what it means to combat log, or it really is all about the money.

I've always seen it this way, I really dont know why we have thread after thread on it, someone logs on someone, unless that someone is trying to pirate them, which lets face its not going to make anybody rich any time soon, who's the winner and really what have they won even they did get the kill they were after.

Its cheating sure but who are they cheating if not themselves.

 

[Ziljan]

I provided 2 and now 3 methods of possible exploits. I could add many more but all of them have to do with long range travel and or ducking the cost of being a criminal.

Sorry but you haven't provided any exploits that any sane, rational, or moderately intelligent person would ever use. I think you simply haven't thought this through enough.

- - - Updated - - -

I've always seen it this way, I really dont know why we have thread after thread on it, someone logs on someone, unless that someone is trying to pirate them, which lets face its not going to make anybody rich any time soon, who's the winner and really what have they won even they did get the kill they were after.

Its cheating sure but who are they cheating if not themselves.

Precisely! Both combat logging and complaining about it seems nonsensical to me as well. I would think the primary thing would be to encourage people feel better about participating in PVP, so to the extent that Frontier can foster a healthy and vibrant PVP environment where less hard feelings are had, I think they should do that.

But the logger and anti-loggers? I just don't see what people think can be gained from that debate.

 

[JRok]

Okaaay... I know it's wrong, but I station log sometimes when I forget those flipp'n limpets.

As for combat logging... I don't really agree with lowering the rebuy... if a player or NPC hands my rear to me... I deserve the punishment.

Combat loggers are by definition: losers. If they are only worried about their pride, then combat logging should be the last thing anyone would do.

I agree... I think combat logging would hurt my pride way more than some credits and lost cargo ever would.

 

[Jenner]

Interesting idea, OP.

Yeah, I do think that the punishment for loss in ED is too high, and that lowering it would help alleviate several issues.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

- LOWER the rebuy costs if attacked/destroyed by a real CMDR to 1/10th of the regular rebuy costs

- KEEP rebuy costs as is if attacked/killed by NPC

= 50% to 70% less combat logging


____________________
Why?

- Combat logging is only annoying for real PvP situations in which a CMDR attacks another one.
- If you don't have to grind hardcore for the rebuy costs, the will to stay in the game is way higher. 30 mio. credits rebuy for a Corvette is hard grind work. People LOG OFF and it's comprehensible
- No PvE aspect of the game will be touched
- Beginners do not loose all they have if they get attacked by a PvP player. Even they can afford 1/10th of the regular rebuy costs and they gain experience in fighting
- Everyone is happy, pirating will work more often again, player fight interaction is good fun, beginners gain experience, PvPers are happy after destroying ships, PvP is more fun for everyone, PvE not touchet... Whooohhhhhhhhh! That's really working...

I have seen so many CMDRs logging in CZs because they got their butt handed over to them. Cutters, Anacondas, all them expensive ships.

How about this:

Increase the rebuy cost to 50% (1000% more rebuy).
Remove the rebuy cost when killed by a CMDR and being clean.

So the basic rebuy cost WILL hurt if losing against NPCs (which is a task by itself) but no cost for PvP encounters. Guess what, more combat logging will occur.

The issue is not the high rebuy cost, it is the P2P architecture which was a fool decision at the beginning. I am still for a complete rework of the netcoding and the decision making behind it. To fix combat logging is to punish everyone who does it by destroying their ship. Either stay and might escape or choose to respawn using the gamerules faster but you gonna pay if you gonna lose. That's it.

Same for modeswitching, tho.

 

[Andovar]

While there's a chance this idea could reduce it somewhat, I don't think it would reduce it as much as you think.
There's still plenty of potential loss people would want to avoid:

• A months worth of exploration data.
• Returning from a long range passenger mission.
• Having several million in bounties or combat bonds.
• Stacked missions that you're on your way to turn in.
• Your mining haul that took 3 hours to gather.
• A cargo hold full of something expensive.

Plus, one of the biggest reasons could be that they just don't want the inconvenience. If your a trader on the last leg of a multi-hop trade route, it's much easier to log/restart and continue where you left off than it is to start over.

Personally, I'll never understand why you play in open if you intend to log. So unless some people are willing to come here and admit to CLing, and give their input as to why this would or would not prevent them from logging, we'll likely never know.

 

[Jukelo]

Would you also be asking for a lower rebuy against NPCs if NPCs were actually capable of killing a player?