Pimax 4K: Is there any way to set up higher VR-resolutions in Elite Dangerous?

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

Hi everybody,

after five weeks, I think it's time for a little update

First of all:
I am still satisfied with the Pimax 4K
With the GTX 1080, performance has increased quite a lot - I am able to run ED in Pimax 2k-mode with Elite HMD Quality SS 1.0 and HMD 1.0 fluently. Crystal clear image, everything almost pin sharp, every text legible without any Problems.

But: "Fluently" means 30 FPS - not 60!

So far, I have not got any problems with the 30 FPS since they are constant, whatever I do - flying around, asteroid fields, SRV excursions.... It would certainly be bad, even a mess, if the FPS would jump up and down permanently. But it shows absolutely constant 30 FPS which is - for me - far good enough to play Elite with a lot of fun. Mainly cause of the missing SDE - the view is simply perfect.

But as in the galaxy: Where's light, there are also some shadows :
I already got some feedback from someone else who ordered the Pimax 4k, and he mentioned, even though far better / mssing SDE, the immersion was not as good as with the Rift - for him. Also, he mentioned a bit of a lack of brightness and contrast with the Pimax compared with the Rift.

When I finally started to configure Skyrim via vorpX for the Pimax, I stated this lack of brightness and contrast as well. But meanwhile there is a driveroption to increase brightness and contrast at least in two steps, and it helps. Last but not least, I increased the vorpX gamma as well, and now the image is bright and colour rich enough.

In any case, driver support and development by Pimax is great - one new driver version every 1-2 month(s). So there's a chance things might even get better in the course of time.

So, in total I'd rate the following:
- Oculus Rift 2 out of 5 stars
- Pimax 4k 3 out of 5 stars

(This rating includes the price levels as well.)

=> So, for me, the Pimax 4k are the slightly better Gen1-googles: No SDE, much lower price.

But none of them are perfect yet - both are VR Gen1 googles. That's why I won't give neither of them 4 or 5 stars - from my personal point of view earliest Gen2 reaches higher ratings.

So in the end, one has to decide on its own whether to use the Rift or the Pimax. At least I could only recommend everyone to give the Pimax 4k a try and do the final decision afterwards when one has the real comparison based on one's own personal preferences.

Are you playing the Steam version of ED and are you using a HOTAS?

No, I have the "true" Frontier Version of Elite Dangerous Horizons. But it runs SteamVR in background.
No problems so far except sometimes, Elite doesn't start in VR mode. Probably because opening of SteamVR takes him too long that's why Elite might think there's no HMD attached... But as soon as SteamVR runs, no problems at all.

And yes, I have a HOTAS from Thrustmaster, T.Flight HOTAS Stick X. Works without any problems as well.


Fly save
Cmdr Marc Hamilton

 

[Gunner Deckard]

I dunno 30fps really? Thats the best framerate possible? I think I would rather keep my 90FPs and SDE with the Vive. At least till Vive 2 comes out.

If my Vive drops to 70ish in a very heavy High Rez it judders like mad I couldn't imagine 30fps all the time.

 

[Captain N]

Yeah, a low frame rate like that, even if you can play without getting a headache, is going to be an issue for immersion. I find any time I have lower fps than 90, the immersion plummets. A constant, inescapable reminder that what you see is not real.

SDE you at least tend to ignore when you get engrossed in the gameplay.

 

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

Well, I think that's the point where there are different preferences: When using the DK2 and the CV1, it was the SDE which broke immersion the most for me. As long as I am not able to focus anything and to clearly see what's in front of me, I cannot feel the immersion. Especially, when I know from standard displays such as monitors or TVs how it should look like - high details, pin sharp textures etc.

Concerning FPS, I made the experience, that - at least in Elite which seems to be programmed very well in that way - everything feels really very smooth as long as the FPS are almost constant (30 +/-1). If you do have only 30 FPS, but those 30 very very very constantly over time (30-30-30-30-29-30-30-30-30-31-30-31-30-30- ...), there's no problem at all with immersion. No stutter at all. As soon as the FPS start to go up and down too much and permanently (30-45-33-38-52-43-39-38-50-37 ...), then I start noticing stutter since the variation is much too large. And this, of course, first would break immersion, and second it certainly creates headache and motion sickness over time.

With the Rift CV1, I noticed the latter situation, having had much more stutter and judder at a generally higher FPS level. Can't tell you where it came from - perhaps, because the Rift tries to force 90 FPS under all circumstances. But as this does not work well with the high quality settings I set, the FPS drop permanently, go up again, drop again, and so on.
Seems, as if the Pimax behaves a bit different in that way - there seems not to be any "push-FPS-under-any-circumstances-to-max".

So, from my experience and point of view, the absolute FPS level isn't as important as the FPS variation is: Low FPS with almost no variation behave as good as high FPS with almost no variation do. And high FPS with large and permanent variation break immersion as easily as low FPS under same circumstances would do.

Perhaps - just some thoughts from me based on my experiences.

Last but not least:
My 30 FPS with the Pimax in Elite Dangerous are a result of having set all graphics and HMD quality options to max possible while still being able to play it smoothly. That's not really an issue to the Pimax itself!
I could achieve 60 FPS or more with the Pimax easily if I'd reduce some details, SS and the HMD quality. But as this would result in worse image quality, I do prefer 30 instead of 60 FPS. As mentioned only as long as it runs smooth and performs well without any stutter. And that's what it does so far

 

[paulkemp]

My 30 FPS with the Pimax in Elite Dangerous are a result of having set all graphics and HMD quality options to max possible while still being able to play it smoothly. That's not really an issue to the Pimax itself!
I could achieve 60 FPS or more with the Pimax easily if I'd reduce some details, SS and the HMD quality. But as this would result in worse image quality, I do prefer 30 instead of 60 FPS. As mentioned only as long as it runs smooth and performs well without any stutter. And that's what it does so far

That is depressing reading to us other owners of the gtx 1080 and our wallets. All are hoping the Rift and Vive ver 2 will offer a significantly higher res display, and run at a higher refresh rate than the PiMax. My wallet is crying with the thought already!

Thanks for the write up in this, and the other tread. [up]

 

[shaunppl]

Try the RDTracker from www.edtracker.co.uk works a lot better than TrackIR and smoother too.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Try the RDTracker from www.edtracker.co.uk works a lot better than TrackIR and smoother too.

Does EDTracker do 6DOF now? If its still 3DOF then it only emulates what the Pimax can do anyway.

 

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

That is depressing reading to us other owners of the gtx 1080 and our wallets. All are hoping the Rift and Vive ver 2 will offer a significantly higher res display, and run at a higher refresh rate than the PiMax. My wallet is crying with the thought already!

What do you mean? Cause a better HMD alone won't do it?
Well, present GPUs aren't performent enough yet for maximum high quality... :/

But anyway, I don't think Rift and Vive Gen2 will go beyond 2K at Max. It will probably take at least still 4-5 years until we have reasonable good VR systems, from both HMD and GPU side.
So, enough time to put some money aside

Try the RDTracker from www.edtracker.co.uk works a lot better than TrackIR and smoother too.

Does it work on top of the Pimax?

 

[shaunppl]

How is this garbage, your talking out of your rear end mate, the visual reproduction and clarity far exceed the vive and oculus, ok so it does not have 6dof, you can buy add-on 6 dof units and controllers for around £99.00. its native resolution is 2560x1440 at 60hz far more than anyone else, so a whole setup for less than £400.00 and better graphics and screen rez than anything else currently on the market it really is a good unit, albeit they are still working on the software and 6dof to come later why diz something you know very little about, I have one and have been very pleased with it, I expected issues and yes we do have some, but they are being worked on and someone always comes to help you, considering it can play all the oculus and vive games as well makes it very versatile unlike the others.

 

[vic]

How is this garbage, your talking out of your rear end mate, the visual reproduction and clarity far exceed the vive and oculus, ok so it does not have 6dof, you can buy add-on 6 dof units and controllers for around £99.00. its native resolution is 2560x1440 at 60hz far more than anyone else, so a whole setup for less than £400.00 and better graphics and screen rez than anything else currently on the market it really is a good unit, albeit they are still working on the software and 6dof to come later why diz something you know very little about, I have one and have been very pleased with it, I expected issues and yes we do have some, but they are being worked on and someone always comes to help you, considering it can play all the oculus and vive games as well makes it very versatile unlike the others.

hmmm, here's another review using ED with PIMAX(got this from another thread by MEanstreak242):


"I thought I'd chime in here. I have used the oculus rift cv1 for about 6 months now in Elite, and yesterday I tried the pimax 4k. I have 2 systems this was tested on. First is my main system, i7 4790k, 32gb ram, gtx 1080, windows 10 pro. Second was an i5 4690, 16gb ram, and a gtx 980ti. I also had a friend here, just so we can try two different perspectives because hey, everyone's head is shaped different. We both had the same conclusions:

While yes, there is very little to no screen door effect, (which is why I tried so hard to get this working well) the colors are super washed out. Turning your head quickly has horrible ghosting. Also, you can't focus on anything far away. (I've had my IPD measured at the eye doctor very recently, so the settings on both the cv1 and the pimax are perfect meaning that's not a concern.) Framerates are decent, not great, but they are acceptable. Here's how I can best describe it:

With the Oculus rift, (or the Vive, i've used it as well although not on this particular system so left it out of the comparison) I feel like I'm actually in the ship.
With the PiiMax 4k, I feel like i have a screen wrapped around my head. Depth perception is terrible, and again, washed out colors and a much worse display make it just unusable for me.

I can not see how anyone who's used either a vive or oculus in this game could possibly downgrade this much. (Yes, no god rays either forgot to mention.)

I also did this on 2 seperate windows installations, one was completely clean (win 10) just to make sure there were no left over drivers/reg entries from the rift causing problems.

I fell for the hype, and thankfully i got it on amazon it's getting returned today. (I even tried to see if I could use it for virtual desktop, or movies, and even that I just couldn't deal with. I'll take a little screen door effect for a screen that doesn't look like a first gen lcd screen on a smartphone. Resolution, sadly, isn't everything.

And the software, OH GOD the software. I've never seen a bigger mess in my life. Buggy drivers, horrid interface, absolutely no documention that's not garbage from their support forums trying to convince people that their "kickstarter doesn't suck", anyone with a decent system, and the cash for a different vr solution should steer FAR away from this. (Keep in mind, I've been an IT engineer for almost 18 years now, so I do know my way around. I spent 12 hours tweaking, testing, doing everything possible to make this work because i do really want a display with no god rays and no sde.)


Final thoughts, stay away. Although this gives me great hope for the next generation of devices with higher res screens. They're just not ready for primetime yet. (I still love the oculus and am not regretting the purchase. This is also not an attempt to validate my purchases, as I was perfectly willing to keep both and use them for different situations.)

Just my 2 cents."


Seems this is sooooooo subjective- It's like night and day of opinions- really strange

 

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

hmmm, here's another review using ED with PIMAX(got this from another thread by MEanstreak242):

"I thought I'd chime in here. I have used the oculus rift cv1 for about 6 months now in Elite, and yesterday I tried the pimax 4k. I have 2 systems this was tested on. First is my main system, i7 4790k, 32gb ram, gtx 1080, windows 10 pro. Second was an i5 4690, 16gb ram, and a gtx 980ti. I also had a friend here, just so we can try two different perspectives because hey, everyone's head is shaped different. We both had the same conclusions:

Well, it certainly is a question on what one got used to:
If he used the Rift for 6 months already, then of course he might have got used to it so much that he appreciates the better colours and contrasts. On the other side, the stronger SDE and the lack of resolution might not feel as bad for him as i.e. for me who used it only for a couple of days and then went over to the Pimax.

Whereas:

While yes, there is very little to no screen door effect, (which is why I tried so hard to get this working well) the colors are super washed out. Turning your head quickly has horrible ghosting. Also, you can't focus on anything far away. (I've had my IPD measured at the eye doctor very recently, so the settings on both the cv1 and the pimax are perfect meaning that's not a concern.)

A point I absolutely can't agree with:
I had this problem as much with the Rift CV1 that I got a headache as soon as I started to focus on somethin far away.
Wih the Pimax and its higher resolution and lack of SDE, no problem at all any more.
Yeah, it's still not perfect - considering the same image on my TV I'd rate as reference with 5/5, the Pimax only gets 4/5. But the CV1 from my point of view not more than 2/5. Horrible.

Framerates are decent, not great, but they are acceptable. Here's how I can best describe it:

With the Oculus rift, (or the Vive, i've used it as well although not on this particular system so left it out of the comparison) I feel like I'm actually in the ship.

Heard this already, and I might agree to this: Yes, with the CV1 I felt a bit more within the ship, true.
But as it might be this made the difference between having motion sickness or not to me, I don't mind it too much for the moment: What's the use of a CV1 I get sick for days so I cannot really play, especially not for hours, compared to a Pimax where I felt comfortable with right from the start...? Yes, might be the real VR experience in the CV1 is a bit better - but at least, with the Pimax I can play and play and play, and when I take it off, I don't feel dizzy a all and can continue directly with whatever I want

With the PiiMax 4k, I feel like i have a screen wrapped around my head. Depth perception is terrible, and again, washed out colors and a much worse display make it just unusable for me.

A point I can't agree with at all: My Pimax's colours are very good, depth perception is ok.
But this might be the point where 6 months of CV1 experience with OLED displays must certainly be taken into consideration.

So, for an experienced CV1 or Vive user, the Pimax might be a downgrade.

But I don't know whether both are worth more than the double price the Pimax costs...?!?

So for anybody else who just starts with VR, the Pimax is a much cheaper and very good HMD. As mentioned already: Neither of the three Gen1 googles are perfect so far, that's just the truth. So it's really a subjective and individual decision. For everyone who is used to the CV1 or Vive and feels comfortable with, the Pimax could be a downgrad from a certain point of view. For anybody else, especially those getting sick in the CV1, the Pimax could be the best VR solution for the moment.

 

[Meanstreak242]

I think the thing everyone is missing here is the shape of your head, and eyes, are going to differ from person to person. Now for the using the Oculus 6 months and being used to the SDE, nope. It's the main reason why I bought a pimax, hoping that I could get rid of it. The SDE is annoying for me, but tolerable after a certain point. The God Rays are what have always driven me nuts about the Rift.

I'm not on here to argue with anyone, so please don't take it as such. I think the more different perspecitves people are introduced to, the more informed decision they can make.

The only TRUE way to see which you like better, is to try them all, in a controlled environment. (Sadly, without purchasing them all, it's pretty much impossible.)

The deal breaker on the pimax for me was the focus. (And again, could be my eyes, the shape of my head, etc. YMMV.) Sitting in the dock, I could not read the name of the dock on the back wall clearly. Even going so far as to strain my eyes to try. Things closeup looked very nice.

For the price, they CV1 is absolutely worth it. You're paying for:
Full head tracking, and motion controls if you'd like to add them later.
SOFTWARE! I cannot stress this part enough. Bad software, crappy drivers, will break any experience. You can have the nicest hardware in the world, but if the software is garbage, your experience will suffer.

Anyways, I'm done. Just food for thought. I really posted this because I bought into the hype by reading all these reviews. Figured it was worth a shot. Very sorry I did. (Although thankfully Amazon's return policy is awesome.)

 

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

Hi,

I'm not on here to argue with anyone, so please don't take it as such. I think the more different perspecitves people are introduced to, the more informed decision they can make.

Agreed – I see it exactly the same way

Sitting in the dock, I could not read the name of the dock on the back wall clearly.

Hmm… and this is better with the CV1…? Hard to believe this.
At least for me, with the Pimax set to 2K connection and Elite SS to 1.0 and HMD quality to 1.0 / 1.25, every text is pinsharp, those on the back walls included or even the warnings on bulkhead plates in the cockpit.
But as mentioned, this way my FPS drop down to 30.

So if you belong to those who prefer increased FPS up to 60 or even 90, then of course you have to decrease the quality settings. But as this would make the text qualities much worse, I cannot understand how you can read anything and even better within the Rift. Can’t imagine you play with the Rift with every quality setting maxed up, only 1K connection, and you can read all the textes better than within the Pimax…? Sounds a bit contradictory at least to me.

The only thing I could imagine: I already read some reviews about the Pimax where it was mentioned, that the center was a bit blurry and not only the borders. Seems as if Pimax has quite a wide scattered manufacturing and there are quite a lot of faulty googles sold out there… So perhaps you’ve been unlucky getting one of those? Furthermore, as far as I know, all the Pimax’s sold via Amazon are used uniques (at least here in Germany – didn’t look at other Amazon sites around the globe ) Certainly, it is a matter of money, but if you ever would have the chance, try to get one in a sale at i.e. GearBest directly. If the faulty focus was your only critical point AND you can play/live with less than 60 FPS, then I guarantee you can max up the sharpness far beyond anything possible with the Rift (except the blurry borders).
Did you adjust the software IPD? Seems as if the Pimax IPD is some kind of abstract variable that differs from anything you can measure. Most people seem to feel comfortable with an IPD <60 as far as I read till now. Mine is adjusted to 55.

SOFTWARE! I cannot stress this part enough. Bad software, crappy drivers, will break any experience. You can have the nicest hardware in the world, but if the software is garbage, your experience will suffer

Well, from a certain point of view you’re right: The software isn’t as developed as Oculus Home, no doubt about it. And first driver installation / plug-in is a crap if you don’t know how it works and read some tutorials, signed as well.

But since then, I wouldn’t know why to use the PiPlay software any further…?!?
Except Euro Truck Simulator 2, everything I tried so far worked well within the Pimax either using SteamVR or VorpX. So, since everything is adjusted now, I open PiPlay perhaps once in two weeks – everything else is done outside. No need for PiPlay at all.
Of course, as soon as you start to launch Oculus-ready apps or games with the Pimax, it gets quite tricky. I am not even able to run the Dreamdeck or Lucky Tales in SteamVR with ReviveInjector since Steam BigScreen always stays in front and doesn’t close… But ok… at least for me, launching some Oculus Home apps would be candy whereas Elite, Project Cars or other games are mandatory – and they launch properly with SteamVR.

So, yes, agreed: You can blame the software, it’s really a piece of code a teenager could program in school. Signed 100%.
But I can’t see how this is able to break any experience… ?!? It doesn’t even need to run in the background – just start Elite Dangerous (sometimes I need to run SteamVR separately before) but then everything’s fine

For the price, they CV1 is absolutely worth it. You're paying for:
Full head tracking, and motion controls if you'd like to add them later.

Hmm, don’t agree on that point: My TrackIR 5.0 cost appr. 170 €, so I cannot see, how full Head Tracking in the CV1 could cost almost twice of it. Concerning motion controls, you’re right – but as mentioned earlier: I don’t intend to go towards motion control in the next years. So if one knows already now that he will play without motion control during VR Gen1, then way paying for something, he doesn’t use? If you’re uncertain, then, of course, you’re right, and the Rift is the better choice.

So, I think, if you’re lucky to get fully functional googles without malfunctions, then the Pimax still is a really good and much cheaper alternative for some specific use cases. Of course, I wouldn’t mind a bit more VR feeling; seems as if the Pimax really lacks a bit of that compared with the Rift. But on the other hand, I got very dizzy and motion sick in the Rift perhaps because of this – so here, too, the Pimax might be a better and more comfortable alternative to get used to VR in the course of the time so I am better prepared for Gen2 or Gen3

Finally it’s really up to everybody’s own preferences and use cases. Both, Rift CV1 and Pimax, have their right to exist with all their specific advantages and disadvantages.


As you mentioned: Nothing to argue or dispute with you or anybody else – just sharing some experiences and opinions

 

[Meanstreak242]

That's rather interesting. I did get it from Amazon, but it was supposed to be from GearBest. Can't rule out a defective unit.

Also, for the rift, keep in mind i have 1.5x supersampling running at all times. (Makes the text much better.)

I have it packed up in the box, maybe i'll give it one more shot when i get home from work tonight.

 

[Cmdr Marc Hamilton]

Also, for the rift, keep in mind i have 1.5x supersampling running at all times. (Makes the text much better.)

As mentioned above, I'm running the Pimax in 2k-mode with SS 1.0 and HMD-quality 1.0 / 1.25 (don't know exactly). And every text is really pinsharp. So if you're running a GTX 1080 like me, and you probably have a modern CPU compared to mine (having "only" i5-3550 @default), you should be able to reproduce at least the same image quality I have. BTW: What FPS do you get with the Rift? And what's your HMD quality setting? I've read here in the forums, that increasing HMD quality and reducing SS would lead to better results than increasing SS. But anyway, with Pimax's 2k-mode, almost no need to touch those settings any more.

 

[Franc Kaos]

That is depressing reading to us other owners of the gtx 1080 and our wallets. All are hoping the Rift and Vive ver 2 will offer a significantly higher res display, and run at a higher refresh rate than the PiMax. My wallet is crying with the thought already!

Depends: if the next gen is 4K + foveated rendering (high res only where you're looking), it might not make more demands on current hardware - and there's lots of noise being made by both Vive and Oculus - both have bought various eye tracking companies (tho' it'll then be up to developers to write / update games utilising the tech).

 

[flexodood]

I feel like i have a screen wrapped around my head. Depth perception is terrible, and again, washed out colors and a much worse display make it just unusable for me.

i had the exact same impression after using it first. but after installing the latest firmware and piplay sw it's really nice. they adjusted the fov. it was set too high previously what led to perceived delay in head movement a warping effect and worse depth perception.

now it looks really sweet.

about the ghosting... i notice it in menus if i want to (rotating my head around and looking for it) otherwise it's not noticeable for me.

for the first 3-4 days of using it i was quite sure i'd put it on ebay and get a cv1. now i'm happy i didn't.

 

[flexodood]

and the colors... they look quite vibrant to me. in war thunder i had to tweak pp to get it looking realistic and in ED i just adjusted gamma.
i even use a lower brightness setting in piplay. the "dark screen" everybody seems ti criticize i just dont get. i didn't even try the brightest setting yet.

i'd be grateful to hear from the other pimax users their ideal settings in ED.

 

[LukeB]

I've had my Pimax4K now for a couple of months now and I'm very happy with it other than the fact that it has no mechanical focus provision.
Luckily, I have a pair of glasses I wear for close electronics work and focus is good with them on.

I have the Steam version of ED had some issues getting the X52Pro HOTAS working but as I found out from ED support, Steam changed something which messed up how some HOTAS units are recognised. Running ED outside of Steam via EDLaunch.exe solves the HOTAS problem and everything works OK.
That's how I run ED now.

I read lots of reviews canning Pimax for various reasons and of course everyone has a right to their opinions, but as far as I'm concerned Pimax is great for the games I want to play and I would have any VR if not for Pimax. Definitely couldn't afford AU$1500 for a Vive.

I'm totally not interested in full positional tracking as I play all my games sitting down in a comfy chair and Pimax gyros are great. Any drift can easily be reset in game.

Totally happy with Pimax. Can run/play/watch just about anything I want and I didn't have to break the bank.

 

[X-Terminator]

This Pimax surely is NOT to VR regulated sales standards. How can it possibly be called VR if it can't be 360. It's no more than a glorified Google Cardbox. OP hasn't mentioned the WASHED OUT COLOURS & BUGGY SLOW HOME SCREEN & BLURRING SHADOWS WHEN MOVING FAST. You aren't getting 4K and it seriously is NOT good for a dedicated product to be running "VR" at 30Hz. I think this is hype based upon feel good factors of saving money rather than on a quality product which has no mic and no headtracking so you gotta spend more on those too!
The Chinese are good at selling their cheap tech huh!