New CZ Type (?)

[shadragon]

Lots of CMDR's say the AI is too easy, while others opine the complete opposite. To give the former a challenge why not have "Desperate" level CZ.

In a Desperate CZ there would be only one faction choice available. The opposing faction would have a 2-1, 3-1, etc. advantage in ships. As soon as you choose the available faction, game on.

Numbers are a decent leveler in this game. Last night, in a CZ, I was jumped by six Eagles / Vipers / Asp who made short work of my engineered and armoured FDL. While terrifying for me (I got out with 27% hull), I'm sure there are those who would want that level of challenge.

You could even label the CZ like USS as:

Desperate CZ (2) = 2-1 Odds against
Desperate CZ (3) = 3-1 Odds against
Desperate CZ (4) = 4-1 Odds against...etc.

Payouts should reflect the difficulty, of course.

Just throwing the idea out there.

 

[Andovar]

Not against the idea, and it would probably be pretty easy to implement.
Though I'm still wishing that they change the whole CZ concept to be more than simply endless spawns of ships.

 

[MottiKhan]

Interesting idea. And I like the name of the CZ as well.

 

[NascentChemist]

They'd have to very carefully monitor the ratio of ships. Even in normal CZ's, either faction could practically disappear. At that point, incoming waves of the smaller faction are massacred.

 

[shadragon]

They'd have to very carefully monitor the ratio of ships. Even in normal CZ's, either faction could practically disappear. At that point, incoming waves of the smaller faction are massacred.

That happened to me last night. Chased an Elite Viper MK III 14KM out. Sat there for a while after killing the NPC to recharge shields, then went back to the CZ marker. All I saw was red and it all came at me. That formed this idea actually.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

It's not a bad idea, but they shouldn't just be random as to which side is the desperate one. Maybe it would be the faction who is currently losing the conflict.

There should also be something in the station news bulletins giving clues where to find these, and the factions involved.

I never go to a CZ unless I already know which side I will be fighting for, so it's annoying to arrive at one with the wrong factions. It would be just as annoying to arrive at one where I can't join my chosen faction.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

They'd have to very carefully monitor the ratio of ships. Even in normal CZ's, either faction could practically disappear. At that point, incoming waves of the smaller faction are massacred.

This happens a lot when I turn up.

It gets the point I have to reset the instance, because we all dog pile on the one enemy that spawns. Then go back to fish-tanking untill the next one.

Of course, sometimes I drop in, pick a side, and realise my mistake, when it's 15-2.
And the only other ship on my side is an Eagle.

 

[Roasted1982]

Bigger waves of the same unchallenging opponents is a terrible way of increasing the challenge. Put DD5 and some long range weapons on an FDL, clipper or even a cutter, boost out, FA-off, flip, than keep your opponents at 3.5 km and mow them down one by one. Fly back and repeat. Or brute force it for 5 minutes in a maxed out corvette till your SCBs run dry and wake out. Sounds very tedious and not challenging. The only way they could make this remotely playable is if was in some installation or dense asteroid field so you could use buildings for cover and go ninja on the enemy. Kind of like having a 1 vs 8 CQC match.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

i would prefer instead of Desperation, a term such as Large Engagement reported! or perhaps OPEN BATTLE (in caps!).

lets face it, haz rez and CZ are really just skirmishes. thats why they say conflict not war. if we had a BATTLE or OPEN WARFARE CZ you would find more than just the usual npc ships there. you would find actual military ships, with military grade (rather than engineered) modules and shields and weapons, along with a lot of supporting capital ships firing at each other, which you could join in. you would have to navigate the battle cautiously of course, maybe staying away from the warships unless you are needed to go take out their drive or target their shield gens or weapon turrets. they should cease firing at you if you break off and get beyond effective range (that is further away than the enemy capital ship fleet is). you would get npc fighter support to make your attack run, along with having to fight enemy defending fighters and other craft. and the changes in faction rep would be in the order of dropping you a couple of levels by the enemy faction at least, and gaining a whole level with the faction you are siding with.

being military, the weapons and shields are superior to what commanders and standard npcs would get and they would need special military AI. the fighters would operate correctly in wings or squadrons, and the accuracy of enemy fire be superior. they woudl also be far harder to hit due to their better ability to maneouvre, and quicker reaction to being hit. they would DEFINITELY target critical systems. of course the ones on your side would help, but getting close to any of the warships in anything less than a top combat meta ship would and should be close to suicide especially if unsupported (at some point one factions CO will decide they are losing and to get out with whats left of his force. best to wake if thats your side.)

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I'd rather see some planetary CZ's. Let us siege installations, contend with station defenses, waves of Goliaths, Skimmers and Stingers, as well as enemy ships deploying from pads and hangers, with the perpetual threat of incoming reinforcements from orbit.

 

[CptXabaras]

I'd rather see some planetary CZ's. Let us siege installations, contend with station defenses, waves of Goliaths, Skimmers and Stingers, as well as enemy ships deploying from pads and hangers, with the perpetual threat of incoming reinforcements from orbit.

Oooohhh so much this!

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

The only way they could make this remotely playable is if was in some installation or dense asteroid field so you could use buildings for cover and go ninja on the enemy..

I so want this to be a thing.

 

[NascentChemist]

I'd rather see some planetary CZ's. Let us siege installations, contend with station defenses, waves of Goliaths, Skimmers and Stingers, as well as enemy ships deploying from pads and hangers, with the perpetual threat of incoming reinforcements from orbit.

I'd love this soo much! Would it be greifing to build a mine launcher fitted with Ion Disruptors?

 

[TheChafing]

It's not a bad idea, but they shouldn't just be random as to which side is the desperate one. Maybe it would be the faction who is currently losing the conflict.

There should also be something in the station news bulletins giving clues where to find these, and the factions involved.

I never go to a CZ unless I already know which side I will be fighting for, so it's annoying to arrive at one with the wrong factions. It would be just as annoying to arrive at one where I can't join my chosen faction.

Maybe it could be tied into the available missions in the system. The CZ missions for the desperate faction pay better, but the odds are stacked against you.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

unless FD changes rewards so that fightign for the outnumbered faction is much more rewardable it would just eb abused.
currently just grab missions and then shift the battle so your faction outnumbers the others massively, then youc an make battles 10vs1. quick kills.
your idea would make such a situation possible form the entire beginning of the combat. So missions as well as Desperate CZ payouts would need soem huge adjsutments to not make this abusable.

 

[Kyennamo]

Lots of good ideas here.

Unfortunately, FD can't get the stuff we have straight. Every new idea is held back by the fact that the current systems are broken.

I do TONS of CZs on XB1 and PC and they are currently broken in so many ways on both platforms. Whether it be the god aweful problem with AI or just the never ending list of technical issues.....they are just broken.

 

[Underhook]

Im not sure I understand CMDR's who say its too easy. All you have to do is reduce the size/type of you weapons and shileds etc.

 

[777Driver]

Im not sure I understand CMDR's who say its too easy. All you have to do is reduce the size/type of you weapons and shileds etc.

That only works if you fly in solo or mobius.

 

[aardappelianen]

I think before that fdev needs to flesh out combat zones themselves by creating more objectives like points to capture or something
So that there's an actual progression of the battle
And they need to come up with a whole range of weapons especially more long range stuff so that there's an actual deep tactical play instead of just a infinite fish in barrels kind of situation

Some stuff should only be doable in coordinated wings

 

[Rowander]

Great ideas in this thread.

Combat Zones, and Res Sites, in general, would merit an expansion alone. There's so may things that could be done to make them better...

The idea about a CZ with a big battle inside is great, but it should be done properly right. Commanders should be able to join the military. Like in powerplay (or even using powerplay). Military rank should be tied to missions on those CZ. And those missions should be truly military oriented: If you fly a light ship you would be tasked with fighter support, escort, space superiority. If flying something bigger you would be able to afford interceptions, bombing runs on heavy/capital vessels, attacks on installations... Military-only weapons should be created and provided for those missions too. Particularly, very heavy torpedos or bombs for use against capital ships, which should be almost impervious to light-medium-heavy weapons. Only huge weapons and military ordnance should make a dent on them.

You'll need to follow your briefing and listen to battle communications, and act accordingly if needed.

Current implementation of military combat is lacking in so many aspects that it's not believable at all. Just a mashup of civilian ships with better armor going against each other like pirates. It could be so much more, so much better...

Extend that to the surface of planets, with massive battles over installations... extend it even more with fights for control over spaceports or naval bases in orbit... add some military-exclusive community goals (military campaigns)... and you have a truly engaging and rewarding military career.