Resolving the Griefer Issues

[Deadspin]

God I hope nobody ever allows the lot of you to actually dictate game mechanics in the future.

 

[KillSwitch69]

Greetings,

With thousands of posts over a number of years about dealing with griefers with no real solutions why don't we take it to the next level?

We are on a Forum. We have Moderators. From what I have seen they cannot remove a post (or maybe they can but choose not to) but can move posts to the appropriate sub forum and close them when appropriate.

Maybe we should have Moderators in the game as well. They cannot change the status of a player's account but will be flying around in Imperial Couriers with unlimited shielding and massive weapons only the top three ships have access to. In FE2 I had an Eagle with a Plasma Accelerator and a 3000LY jump range. Easy to do in ED. Thus when griefers are identified in a system they are going to have serious issues when the Moderators show up. Community Goals are different but new players getting killed just starting the game or those moments as in the current Beta 2.3 testing when many greifers take advantage of live players they will meet the Moderators.

There is no solution between PvE and PvP. Frontier maybe missed this point. There are different approaches to the game and will always be in conflict. So if we nerf the balance towards PvP maybe Moderators with serious ships could make a difference. Nothing else has worked so far.

Just an idea. Discuss/debate it but if it turns into a yelling fest like so many posts do then I'll ask a Moderator to close it. I do wish when a few people arguing back and forth add so many posts one has to wade through versus intelligent discussion the Moderators could help. But I figure that they are limited. I feel your frustration!

Regards

Great Idea except that FD don't know how to balance it and would end up destroying the galaxy due to bugs in their super-weapons

 

[GluttonyFang]

On the contrary, I would hold up this forum's moderation as an example of discretion being successful in controlling those who disregard the spirit of the rules while seeking to use the letter of the rules to shield themselves from the consequences of their behaviour.

Since we're using forums as an example; the state of the ED subreddit shows clearly what can happen when moderation fails in such a core task. Unfortunately, the game itself has been left to degrade into a similar state. I don't think moderators flying around in debug ships handing down ingame justice is likely to be the solution, but the game is in desperate need of moderation which can't be gamed.

In my experience, people often cry corruption because the blurry line is stopping them from getting away with mischief.

Because you're not a minority on this forum, I'm not surprised that's your observation.

Also, think about the implementation of this in-game:

Person 1: "OMG this person is griefing me."
Person 2: "No I didn't, I was trying to pirate/bounty hunt."
Person 1: "Nope, this guy was harassing me!"
Person 2: "No, I made sure to make it clear what I wanted in local message before I opened fire."
Person 1: "Nope."
Person 2: "Nope."

Moderator: "Okay... let's look at the log files, oh wait..."

Edit:

Alternative scenario:

Person 1: "Hey moderator, this guy's being toxic in this system that my player group is trying to operate in."
Moderator: "Oh you're from that player group that I really dislike. Ops, I never read your message, guess someone else has to take care of it."

Person 2: "Hey moderator, we'd really like it if this person did not exist in this system, can you remove him?"
Moderator: "Oh hey, how's your family doing, I know your cousin's still recovering from [insert illness]. And, sure, let me just fly over there, I don't like that person's player group anyway."

The infinite possibility of abuse is just too absurd for me to even entertain it.

 

[Hamakua]

I'm most certainly against cheating but shooting at other players isn't



A deterrent to what? Its meant to be a cutthroat galaxy. It would help if people didnt cry griefer wolf all the time. PvP != griefing.

It's not a cutthroat galaxy though. If it were the response to "griefers" would be enough to curb the practice to just the mentally ill. If respawning was canon within the universe "griefers" would be tagged as a continuous threat and would have resources dedicated to constantly harassing them or locking them up. Be it private or public.

You would have government sponsored kill squads and intelligence resources doing nothing but griefing the griefers.

Because there is no way to track players the community cannot even hold them accountable. "most wanted" criminals can just make one jump and all is forgotten. Their reputation does not haunt them.

To suggest the galaxy is "cutthroat" because there is zero response to functionally the pathologically psychotic -is to ignore the other side of the coin.

 

[Gunnet]

Because you're not a minority on this forum, I'm not surprised that's your observation.

Also, think about the implementation of this in-game:

Person 1: "OMG this person is griefing me."
Person 2: "No I didn't, I was trying to pirate/bounty hunt."
Person 1: "Nope, this guy was harassing me!"
Person 2: "No, I made sure to make it clear what I wanted in local message before I opened fire."
Person 1: "Nope."
Person 2: "Nope."

Moderator: "Okay... let's look at the log files, oh wait..."

Edit:

Alternative scenario:

Person 1: "Hey moderator, this guy's being toxic in this system that my player group is trying to operate in."
Moderator: "Oh you're from that player group that I really dislike. Ops, I never read your message, guess someone else has to take care of it."

Person 2: "Hey moderator, we'd really like it if this person did not exist in this system, can you remove him?"
Moderator: "Oh hey, how's your family doing, I know your cousin's still recovering from [insert illness]. And, sure, let me just fly over there, I don't like that person's player group anyway."

The infinite possibility of abuse is just too absurd for me to even entertain it.

The first situation would obviously require enhanced logging and giving moderators the ability to look back through them to see patterns of unacceptable behaviour. Things become a lot clearer when person 1 is 50 different people and person 2 is always the common factor.

The other situations are avoided by selecting individuals with integrity. Going back to the whole official forums vs. Reddit thing, Frontier have proven that they're capable of doing so.

 

[GluttonyFang]

The first situation would obviously require enhanced logging and giving moderators the ability to look back through them to see patterns of unacceptable behaviour. Things become a lot clearer when person 1 is 50 different people and person 2 is always the common factor.

The other situations are avoided by selecting individuals with integrity. Going back to the whole official forums vs. Reddit thing, Frontier have proven that they're capable of doing so.

There is no people with "integrity".

Everyone is biased to one extent or another, hoping for some great "objective" person to suddenly appear is as unrealistic as Rousseau's concept of the Legislator, or Plato's Philosopher Kings.

 

[NeilF]

pressure engineers into not dealing with you and so on.

Oooh! I like that!

I hadn't considered that as a penalty... But then realised I had sort of included it in my list of suggested penalties by stations and even entire systems being denied if a CMDR persistently continues on with their psychotic behaviour - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Reputation-quot-and-quot-Risk-Hot-Spots-quot

 

[grumpsalot]

Person 1: "OMG this person is griefing me."
Person 2: "No I didn't, I was trying to pirate/bounty hunt."

Moderator: "Okay...switch on our swanky new PvE toggle and you'll never have this issue again"

Collective: "Sigh of relief"

 

[NeilF]

Person 1: "OMG this person is griefing me."
Person 2: "No I didn't, I was trying to pirate/bounty hunt."

Moderator: "Okay...switch on our swanky new PvE toggle and you'll never have this issue again"

Collective: "Sigh of relief"

This simply fractures OPEN more, rather than addressing the real issues IMHO.

I'd still suggest implementing a simple Crime & Punishment mechanic, whereby if you illegally destroy too many CMDRs in a given period you then start getting penalised would help rein in a lot of the toxic gameplay CMDRs seem to dislike.

Add to this Piracy getting some long long overdue attention, and ideally the game then actually orchestrating and offering some (legal) PvP scenarios, we could then find OPEN a far more level affair, and far more appealling/fun!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Reputation-quot-and-quot-Risk-Hot-Spots-quot

 

[grumpsalot]

This simply fractures OPEN more

Possibly - equally it might encourage more players to engage in Open and drop Solo....

 

[Deadspin]

Possibly - equally it might encourage more players to engage in Open and drop Solo....

I'd be willing to put money on the fact that the majority of people playing in Solo aren't playing there because they're scared of some elusive boogeyman in open and, in fact, enjoy playing by themselves without interference or assistance from anyone else.

Gluttony, good sir, as an honest troll, I would provide you with the integrity you so desire, for I would get great joy out of giving my own peers a flat "No.." when they asked for something ridiculous. I would also enjoy slapping them down in game when they misbehaved and by my own peers I mean fellow Diamond Frogs and GalCop members. I have no favorites for I hate everyone equally.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

I know why don't we just let criminals and maniacs be criminals and maniacs. I like it dangerous out there in the galaxy.

 

[NeilF]

I know why don't we just let criminals and maniacs be criminals and maniacs. I like it dangerous out there in the galaxy.

And why don't we allow that but with some logical cause and effect mechanics? ie: By all means act like a criminal, or indead a psycho, but don't be surprised when the galaxy starts treating you like a criminal or psycho?

- - - Updated - - -

I'd be willing to put money on the fact that the majority of people playing in Solo aren't playing there because they're scared of some elusive boogeyman in open and, in fact, enjoy playing by themselves without interference or assistance from anyone else.

Gluttony, good sir, as an honest troll, I would provide you with the integrity you so desire, for I would get great joy out of giving my own peers a flat "No.." when they asked for something ridiculous. I would also enjoy slapping them down in game when they misbehaved and by my own peers I mean fellow Diamond Frogs and GalCop members. I have no favorites for I hate everyone equally.

I suspect you're right. ie: Even if piracy/illegal destruction was tightened up, many still wouldn't like being interedicted/pirated by other CMDRs.

That said, I still think there's a good number that have been pushed away/kept away from OPEN by "psycho CMDRs" etc.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

And why don't we allow that but with some logical cause and effect mechanics?

Yes I want a brutal crime and punishment system. I want to be hunted by and pursued throughout the galaxy by NPC fleets and Players. With only Anarchies as safe haven.

But not the ridiculous immortal Justice Warrior idea the OP posted. No disrespect to the OP as I often enjoy his threads.

 

[Deadspin]

I know why don't we just let criminals and maniacs be criminals and maniacs. I like it dangerous out there in the galaxy.

Them's fighting words out here on this forum, buddy.

 

[OCD]

FD have paid the thargoids to sort this out ! Watch this space .

 

[krylite]

They could make it so to resist the UFO-like power draining effect of the Thargoids, ENGRed modules would have to be imbued with a special Thargoid-ray resistant material where it could not be modded any other way. Then presumably with a Thargoid invasion in 2.4 or season 3, most would have to choose the thargoid-resistant modules or the current ganking modules depending on how protected they want to be from the Thargoids and could not have both properties on a module. And stations could offer basic Thargoid resistant modules too except they couldn't be ENGR'd so newer players could also get some protection from the draining and death rays.This could address the out of control griefing in a more lore friendly and balanced way.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

They could make it so to resist the UFO-like power draining effect of the Thargoids, ENGRed modules would have to be imbued with a special Thargoid-ray resistant material where it could not be modded any other way. Then presumably with a Thargoid invasion in 2.4 or season 3, most would have to choose the thargoid-resistant modules or the current ganking modules depending on how protected they want to be from the Thargoids and could not have both properties on a module. And stations could offer basic Thargoid resistant modules too except they couldn't be ENGR'd so newer players could also get some protection from the draining and death rays.This could address the out of control griefing in a more lore friendly and balanced way.

ROTFL, thank you for that post, I genuinely laughed

 

[Cosmos]

It's not a cutthroat galaxy though. If it were the response to "griefers" would be enough to curb the practice to just the mentally ill. If respawning was canon within the universe "griefers" would be tagged as a continuous threat and would have resources dedicated to constantly harassing them or locking them up. Be it private or public.

You would have government sponsored kill squads and intelligence resources doing nothing but griefing the griefers.

Because there is no way to track players the community cannot even hold them accountable. "most wanted" criminals can just make one jump and all is forgotten. Their reputation does not haunt them.

To suggest the galaxy is "cutthroat" because there is zero response to functionally the pathologically psychotic -is to ignore the other side of the coin.

Frontier seems to disagree with you.. Its on the website, and I quote:

a cutthroat galaxy, set against a backdrop of raw anarchy and power plays..

You are welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok... It is a given that this game supplies no actual real-time saves. The save-game implementation here is a definable pseudo save mode at best... That being said, all laws in general require that a stated definable item.object of value be exchanged with the payer by the payee. If the receipt of said value occurs on a random risk based percentage of the time versus the total of all transacted exchanges, then ladies and gentlemen, we have a new horse altogether, and the name of the silly Philly is GAMBLING. Yes indeed, E.D. is quite possibly in Business truth an actual Piece of Casino furniture, otherwise known as a, "One Armed Bandit." Upon the examination of the applied and embodied rules within this game, not some of them, but actually all are indeed not constant. The attrition scales in a non linear & inconstant fashion at the precise and very critical moments of simulation when preservation of player's ability to retain / preserve any form of possessed "In Game Content" transpire. The formula is clear, and direct in its application. Player's content is to be and will be, "reduced", and Frontier's Server space which is leased or Rented from Amazon at cost, is to be and will be factually, "INCREASED" and increase via Argumentum ad baculum ! That unfortunately is a definite ,"CONFLICT OF INTEREST." Sadly, many out there are not mentally capable of such deductive reasoning. That by the way, is not the responsibility of the intelligence possessing and game purchasing customer base. We pay for something that is stated to be offered to us at a given price. This present policy is also clearly affecting future designs of content that was clearly designable and offerable two(2) full decades ago ! This is one of the most severe, and maybe THE most severe failure of Design Policy within this Simulation/Game. Thankfully it can be corrected, and if this game is to be taken seriously in an sincere and HONEST manner, then change these issues of content and scope thereof must !

Here are some basic and historically provable facts about online game-play and content capacity versus what was technologically possible at the time.... Check them out people, and do not just take my word for anything here... Why do I provide this information ? Because Frontier's Programmers and Designers have put a lot of Blood Sweat and Tears into this Incarnation of Elite, and it almost completely shows except when a few very serious and absolutely unavoidable issues are examined outside of the area of focus the Hired corporate P.R. specialists attempt to force Customer attention towards. This capitulation comes as an unconditional and illegitimate form of Fallacy and possible customer fraud... and when these issues get examined under such resolution, that being one closer, than from 10 Zeta kilometers away, if you catch my Astronomical Drift, then one starts to perceive or identify the following issues:

20 years ago Multiplayer command of a minimum of 4 player controlled A.I. Wing-men was fully accomplished within the game of ...
IL-2 STURMOVIK, and within a bandwidth packet size which was a tiny fraction of today's typical 10-100 m.b.p.s. cable connectivity. Oleg Maddox of the 1C Company had to contend with 14.4-56k dial-up telephone modems with unimaginable levels of latency in comparison to today's cable/fiber optics internet connections... So while there is absolutely no question, What So Ever that we are getting lots of Eye Candy in Elite Dangerous, someone's, and I will not point fingers, but someone at Frontier, is Clearly preventing the Development of Proper and realizable content within this sim. The provable, and factual functional result of this person's authority to effect design limitations is that a provable and enormous amount of server space on Amazon's servers is simply not being used for it's stated purpose. I for one now formally make the demand that this policy be stopped immediately. Not next year, no 10 years from now... I mean stop it and that means now. I can provide the M.I.T. Mathematics's Doctorate level Professors, and Corporate Engineers and much more, that will make legally qualified statements of what is being done with the actual Server space and content within this game, and just as important, they will follow and map the Money Trail from beginning to END ! If this type of Dumbing Down of realizable features within M.M.O. games is allowed to continue, it is unquestionably a true statement that all Game Companies will sooner than later come under direct attack of organized crime entities for their property and possession. The end result will be the wholesale use of All online video games as cheaply disguised online Casino's for the singular purpose of defrauding the General Public and Tax Evasion, and Especially for the Mining of Crypto Currencies on a never before experienced scale at tremendous economic and international expense In this case Scotland Yard will be the Authority being skirted around. There appears to be quite a rampant attempt to create special interest laws at this time in response to the fact that several Software companies have already been caught running advanced Bit Coin Mining subroutines within the Online server space, and even on customers machines in several recent cases. It has recently been determined that organized crime costs the EU economy about €110 billion. If I am CENSORED and SILENCED from this FORUM, that will be the final straw here. Factually I will contact Scotland yard, as well as Numerous Professors in the UK all involved in the process of counteracting Cyber-crime, and a real and sincere accounting will take place. This will not be initiated by a off teen, but rather by an Engineer of some 30 years and at 55 Y.O.A.... In other words, no P.R. schmooze or logical set of Fallacies are going to deter me. More over, I will not be financially , "Deterred." Greed will not remove me from the table. I stand firmly one the side of the Customer base and the youth's who are not yet able to perceive exactly how they are being taken advantage of as of yet, but who are put off, when they try to request changes be made to content in this game. They are told, "The Group Voted Against Your Idea's". They do not yet know how to counter this very typical application of the logical"Bandwagon" Fallacy, being used to deter their honest inquiries. David, this is directly to you. You have the ability to order content correction and changes in general. As much as I respect your accomplishments within the field of technology, and especially your invention of intellectual property, I am astounded at the suspensions of applied physics withing the sim, as acts of direct attrition and forced denial/removal of paid for player content, as well as the direct avoidance and denial of well established abilities withing the coding framework of online gaming structure. the levels being logically denied to the paying customer base here within Elite Dangerous approach (20) Twenty Years, TWO DECADES David. Well, we don't need Oleg Maddox to come before a Trial Jury in Court and show the jury how the missing abilities can be applies, Just like he did 20 years ago... Or do we David ? You must know David, that I am posting this out of the full knowledge and respect for your abilities. I know fully well that you can implement player abilities far beyond anything that Oleg Maddox did 20 years ago. This Simulation has had too much support from Fans and too much work from honest coders and artists to just end up as a piece of, "Deception-Ware". If You choose to implement the true ability that can be made available to the customer base here, then I will remain a Fan of your Game series, but this present incarnation of the series, has clearly discernible conflicts of interest between server space usage and the 100 % of that usage which should be used only by the player, as well as what current online content can accomplish. I trust you will quietly restore this David, and I also suggest you restore truthful expression of physics within Elite Dangerous, to Include in a truthful Manner, "Extropic Function of Universe." Better no Coin at all than half the Coin David. 50% of the picture results in error exceeding 75% of possible legitimate physics structures. So David I could have gone straight to Scotland Yard and provided a Research Paper level of explanation and simply allowed them to end Frontier Development, as well as the jobs and Careers of several hundred innocent people, and all truth be told the guilty party might well have left the U.K never to return or to face any real punitive rewards for the action they have practiced upon so many. That, however, is not a way in which Online Simulation of Human Endeavors will be able to continue to develop. The loss of trust, and the drying up of development capitol will be catastrophic, to a long standing point that no P.R. corporate censorship firm will ever be able to compensate for. No one who loves space sims or sims of any kind wants that David, but we must stand up against the intent of organized crime and its utter intent to take over any industry it perceives can be a foundation for illegitimate profiteering, and for the mas laundering of other ill-begotten funds. This issue is certainly no laughing matter, and any company that espouses the belief of invulnerability, reveals their innermost mindset to be one in the same with, "The Fool".

omg thats an impressive wall of text.. :O

 

[jasonbarron]

Ok... It is a given that this game supplies no actual real-time saves. The save-game implementation here is a definable pseudo save mode at best... That being said, all laws in general require that a stated definable item.object of value be exchanged with the payer by the payee. If the receipt of said value occurs on a random risk based percentage of the time versus the total of all transacted exchanges, then ladies and gentlemen, we have a new horse altogether, and the name of the silly Philly is GAMBLING. Yes indeed, E.D. is quite possibly in Business truth an actual Piece of Casino furniture, otherwise known as a, "One Armed Bandit." Upon the examination of the applied and embodied rules within this game, not some of them, but actually all are indeed not constant. The attrition scales in a non linear & inconstant fashion at the precise and very critical moments of simulation when preservation of player's ability to retain / preserve any form of possessed "In Game Content" transpire. The formula is clear, and direct in its application. Player's content is to be and will be, "reduced", and Frontier's Server space which is leased or Rented from Amazon at cost, is to be and will be factually, "INCREASED" and increase via Argumentum ad baculum ! That unfortunately is a definite ,"CONFLICT OF INTEREST." Sadly, many out there are not mentally capable of such deductive reasoning. That by the way, is not the responsibility of the intelligence possessing and game purchasing customer base. We pay for something that is stated to be offered to us at a given price. This present policy is also clearly affecting future designs of content that was clearly designable and offerable two(2) full decades ago ! This is one of the most severe, and maybe THE most severe failure of Design Policy within this Simulation/Game. Thankfully it can be corrected, and if this game is to be taken seriously in an sincere and HONEST manner, then change these issues of content and scope thereof must !

Here are some basic and historically provable facts about online game-play and content capacity versus what was technologically possible at the time.... Check them out people, and do not just take my word for anything here... Why do I provide this information ? Because Frontier's Programmers and Designers have put a lot of Blood Sweat and Tears into this Incarnation of Elite, and it almost completely shows except when a few very serious and absolutely unavoidable issues are examined outside of the area of focus the Hired corporate P.R. specialists attempt to force Customer attention towards. This capitulation comes as an unconditional and illegitimate form of Fallacy and possible customer fraud... and when these issues get examined under such resolution, that being one closer, than from 10 Zeta kilometers away, if you catch my Astronomical Drift, then one starts to perceive or identify the following issues:

20 years ago Multiplayer command of a minimum of 4 player controlled A.I. Wing-men was fully accomplished within the game of ...
IL-2 STURMOVIK, and within a bandwidth packet size which was a tiny fraction of today's typical 10-100 m.b.p.s. cable connectivity. Oleg Maddox of the 1C Company had to contend with 14.4-56k dial-up telephone modems with unimaginable levels of latency in comparison to today's cable/fiber optics internet connections... So while there is absolutely no question, What So Ever that we are getting lots of Eye Candy in Elite Dangerous, someone's, and I will not point fingers, but someone at Frontier, is Clearly preventing the Development of Proper and realizable content within this sim. The provable, and factual functional result of this person's authority to effect design limitations is that a provable and enormous amount of server space on Amazon's servers is simply not being used for it's stated purpose. I for one now formally make the demand that this policy be stopped immediately. Not next year, no 10 years from now... I mean stop it and that means now. I can provide the M.I.T. Mathematics's Doctorate level Professors, and Corporate Engineers and much more, that will make legally qualified statements of what is being done with the actual Server space and content within this game, and just as important, they will follow and map the Money Trail from beginning to END ! If this type of Dumbing Down of realizable features within M.M.O. games is allowed to continue, it is unquestionably a true statement that all Game Companies will sooner than later come under direct attack of organized crime entities for their property and possession. The end result will be the wholesale use of All online video games as cheaply disguised online Casino's for the singular purpose of defrauding the General Public and Tax Evasion, and Especially for the Mining of Crypto Currencies on a never before experienced scale at tremendous economic and international expense In this case Scotland Yard will be the Authority being skirted around. There appears to be quite a rampant attempt to create special interest laws at this time in response to the fact that several Software companies have already been caught running advanced Bit Coin Mining subroutines within the Online server space, and even on customers machines in several recent cases. It has recently been determined that organized crime costs the EU economy about €110 billion. If I am CENSORED and SILENCED from this FORUM, that will be the final straw here. Factually I will contact Scotland yard, as well as Numerous Professors in the UK all involved in the process of counteracting Cyber-crime, and a real and sincere accounting will take place. This will not be initiated by a off teen, but rather by an Engineer of some 30 years and at 55 Y.O.A.... In other words, no P.R. schmooze or logical set of Fallacies are going to deter me. More over, I will not be financially , "Deterred." Greed will not remove me from the table. I stand firmly one the side of the Customer base and the youth's who are not yet able to perceive exactly how they are being taken advantage of as of yet, but who are put off, when they try to request changes be made to content in this game. They are told, "The Group Voted Against Your Idea's". They do not yet know how to counter this very typical application of the logical"Bandwagon" Fallacy, being used to deter their honest inquiries. David, this is directly to you. You have the ability to order content correction and changes in general. As much as I respect your accomplishments within the field of technology, and especially your invention of intellectual property, I am astounded at the suspensions of applied physics withing the sim, as acts of direct attrition and forced denial/removal of paid for player content, as well as the direct avoidance and denial of well established abilities withing the coding framework of online gaming structure. the levels being logically denied to the paying customer base here within Elite Dangerous approach (20) Twenty Years, TWO DECADES David. Well, we don't need Oleg Maddox to come before a Trial Jury in Court and show the jury how the missing abilities can be applies, Just like he did 20 years ago... Or do we David ? You must know David, that I am posting this out of the full knowledge and respect for your abilities. I know fully well that you can implement player abilities far beyond anything that Oleg Maddox did 20 years ago. This Simulation has had too much support from Fans and too much work from honest coders and artists to just end up as a piece of, "Deception-Ware". If You choose to implement the true ability that can be made available to the customer base here, then I will remain a Fan of your Game series, but this present incarnation of the series, has clearly discernible conflicts of interest between server space usage and the 100 % of that usage which should be used only by the player, as well as what current online content can accomplish. I trust you will quietly restore this David, and I also suggest you restore truthful expression of physics within Elite Dangerous, to Include in a truthful Manner, "Extropic Function of Universe." Better no Coin at all than half the Coin David. 50% of the picture results in error exceeding 75% of possible legitimate physics structures. So David I could have gone straight to Scotland Yard and provided a Research Paper level of explanation and simply allowed them to end Frontier Development, as well as the jobs and Careers of several hundred innocent people, and all truth be told the guilty party might well have left the U.K never to return or to face any real punitive rewards for the action they have practiced upon so many. That, however, is not a way in which Online Simulation of Human Endeavors will be able to continue to develop. The loss of trust, and the drying up of development capitol will be catastrophic, to a long standing point that no P.R. corporate censorship firm will ever be able to compensate for. No one who loves space sims or sims of any kind wants that David, but we must stand up against the intent of organized crime and its utter intent to take over any industry it perceives can be a foundation for illegitimate profiteering, and for the mas laundering of other ill-begotten funds. This issue is certainly no laughing matter, and any company that espouses the belief of invulnerability, reveals their innermost mindset to be one in the same with, "The Fool".

Whut?