Telepresence is not necessary.
- Thread starter Garbarrage
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![[VR] Deggial](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/47/47252.jpg?1553527110){kind=avatar}
Well, actually there is a reason: character progress.
A common objection against CQC was/is: why should I spend my time in the arena, when I could alternatively play the main game, earning (serious) credits, reputation and rank?
Hence there was a strong incentive for FDev to implement multi crew in a way that makes this possible - in a more or less logical way.
When solved as the OP suggests, questions like "Why does my main character earns money, if it's a different person who acts as crew member in this far-away ship?" would have been asked.
I am not a friend of 'telepresence' myself for the many reasons mentioned in this thread and elsewhere. I just wanted to point out, that there are more reasons for a decision than some people seem to acknowledge.
At the end, I agree with Iori: Sometimes, the desire to explain everything does more harm than good. There would have been no in-game explanation necessary here - admitting the necessities of practicability would have been enough.
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In answer to the OPs question "Any thoughts?"
Yes - the beta is out, re-engineering the solution will mean pulling 2.3, and ..... well re=engineering the solution. Too late for any changes.
For me its case of move on or put up with it. I am trying the latter, before the former.
Either way whe space legs come out I am looking forward to tasting the salt on these forums. f they remove multi-crew feature through holo-presence, well just look at the threads where instant money making schemes are nerfed for the level of salt. If they keep the feature. I think we are stuck with this feature for th rest of the games life, I am just hping space legs require character's physical presence.
Simon
Yes - the beta is out, re-engineering the solution will mean pulling 2.3, and ..... well re=engineering the solution. Too late for any changes.
For me its case of move on or put up with it. I am trying the latter, before the former.
Either way whe space legs come out I am looking forward to tasting the salt on these forums. f they remove multi-crew feature through holo-presence, well just look at the threads where instant money making schemes are nerfed for the level of salt. If they keep the feature. I think we are stuck with this feature for th rest of the games life, I am just hping space legs require character's physical presence.
Simon
Telepresence is a farce. It creates way more problems that it solves. There are far more elegant solution to the problem of quick-join MP, but FD seem intent on cheapening the Elite experience. Whoever came up with the idea of telepresence, I hope they get moved to the 3rd FD project soon.
It should have been a menu option like Arena, but FD wanted to apply the Rule Of Cool and have holograms fading in. And to be fair they do look cool. They just don't make any sense.
I like to think Sandro has a dartboard full of pinned Post-Its in his office, each with a technological buzzword that he's picked up from skimming back issues of Scientific American. Every once in a while he answers a tricky question by throwing a dart. So far he's hit "3D printing", "telepresence" and "holograms". I live in fear of the day when a dart lands on "clones".
I like to think Sandro has a dartboard full of pinned Post-Its in his office, each with a technological buzzword that he's picked up from skimming back issues of Scientific American. Every once in a while he answers a tricky question by throwing a dart. So far he's hit "3D printing", "telepresence" and "holograms". I live in fear of the day when a dart lands on "clones".
Telepresence is the space glue to stick scattered gameplay together without the need of a reason.
Just like a game menu.
Joke aside.
The reason of "telepresence" is because the long travel time between players. And FDev suddenly doesn't want this for I don't know whatever the reason.
I suggest adding star gate in the most important systems such as Sol to allow player to travel faster within the bubble.
So that player can wing up more easily.
Just like a game menu.
Joke aside.
The reason of "telepresence" is because the long travel time between players. And FDev suddenly doesn't want this for I don't know whatever the reason.
I suggest adding star gate in the most important systems such as Sol to allow player to travel faster within the bubble.
So that player can wing up more easily.
Unless you're pushing £4500 official fiction writers' packs, then the lore comes first of course.
There are lot of ways to achieve their goal of instant MP join without undermining the whole point of playing the game (for a lot of people).
I'm sure your intentions are fine, but in the final analysis, it boils down to FD only adding trivial things to the game to placate the never placated tiny-but-vocal player "just want to shoot things"ers.
Sometimes people need to play another game instead of demanding ridiculous lore breaking gimmicks to a fine game with a long established pedigree.
Elite Dangerous isn't a shoot-em-up, and doesn't have to be measured in its instant gratification appeal.
It's a game, and believable, stimulating gameplay always beats fluffy fun.
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I completely agree, the thing is, i don't think the devs want to explain absolutely everything, they are under pressure to do so.
The first posts on the forum after a new patch demo isn't wow, isn't "that's rubbish" but its "Explain this.." posts, I've never seen a community so determined to have an explanation for EVERYTHING.
The first posts i saw after the first 2 demo videos of the camera suit and multi crew were "Explain where the extra pip comes from" "explain the lore behind telepresence" "explain how we can see the turrets in 3rd person".
Sometimes really obvious hand-wavery is scrutinised on here like...Why do we have speed caps instead of accelerating forever, to me its obvious but people ask... Or why we hear sound in space its all obvious gameplay features.
I honestly don't think FD want to explain every little addition they add, but i do feel that THEY feel, they have to.
Those calls for an explanation aren't totally about wanting the description of the mechanical process that would drive those results. But rather about trying to get FD to think about how absurd they are.
The Gunner view "camera" is a silly explanation for a 3rd person mode (that FD said they would never include). It's also inferior to the possibility of a propper gunner view tied top the ship, like the gunners for Helicopters in the Battlefield games.
The extra pip is an open exploit, but since it might drive sales, FD are ok with it. Ironically, I personally she this as just another tool for grievers to push more players to Solo and private groups, so I'm not actually that bothered by this one.
Telepresence is just absurd. In a universe where this tech exists, Mannned spaceflight would be rare. Manned exploration even more so, and manned combat all but non existent.
Again: Yes, but ...
And again, this 'but' refers to Arena/CQC and the many complains about its tedious "waiting lounge".
Many people proposed that the waiting time would be better spent playing the game (hauling commodities, solving missions) and then - if enough players have gathered for a match - the action would start right away.
Don't you think, the same waiting-issue would have appeared when 'multi crew' would have been implemented in the same way (at least after the novelty had worn of and player numbers interested to form a crew drop)?
Can't we conclude that FDev have learned their lesson and tried a more beneficial approach this time?
That's really the issue I have with this (and so many other) topics related to the game: There are so many solutions for each problem and I am pretty sure, the possibilities didn't slip the developers. They just have to make a call. And as always, the discarded solutions will upset those people who would have loved to see exactly this game mechanism implemented. (Please be assured that I don't target this against you personally, just because I used your post as a hook!)
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Personally I think they discarded solutions that would have not broken the lore, but been more work to implement. Like NPC crew control.
I am not of that opinion. Joining multicrew, getting logged off, getting loaded on the other player's ship, waiting for the loading screen ship to spin five times, etc. etc. takes just as much time as accessing the Arena from the menu. The only thing going for it is that it's automated and you only need to press one button once (probably a flow choice with consoles in mind, and for that matter, I appreciate the consideration), but it's just another process involving exiting to menu.
The long waiting times with Arena had different causes. For starters, you had to wait for at least 6 people to get matched together, not 3. And the matchmaking was fiddly a lot of times (people posting on the forum at the exact same time, some finding matches instantly, others not finding a match at all). And there weren't any bots, and sometimes the activity was just "slow", people simply weren't playing. To this day, I did not had the chance to join a CTF match. Not one, never.
I do agree that they did make a call. But that call was based on development time/resources. The holo animation is cool and all, but how much cooler would it have to been to have the bridge doors open, have the player's avatar walk in from "behind the set", maybe make a little gesture, like slamming his fist into his palm, or discarding a cigar bud, or cracking is neck, then him to sit down in his designated chair and proceed to dispensing pain onto his enemies.
That would have required significant work on the engine. A true precursor to space legs. Which obviously does not exist.
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Reps duly handed out to reasonable points on both sides.
I think that considering the fact that (At least for some) the rich lore that surrounds the game, including an increasingly large body of licensed fiction, as well as the in-game storylines, is a selling point of the game. They shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water so cheaply, especially when there are alternatives that preserve the lore.
I think that considering the fact that (At least for some) the rich lore that surrounds the game, including an increasingly large body of licensed fiction, as well as the in-game storylines, is a selling point of the game. They shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water so cheaply, especially when there are alternatives that preserve the lore.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
IF you are going to comment by pooh poohing players wanting FD to stick to the game they sold us back at the start... At least do a little bit of homework before lambasting us...... otherwise you just look a bit silly.
imo FD would have been better NOT writing it into the lore at all and it just "is"
The ideal solution would be been the option of npc crew, they do not even need to do anything just sit there and be pretty when not multicrewing, then if you want to do instant multicrew, for that session a CMDR just controls them. no lore broken..... big ships feel occupied for all players, and it keeps its instant appeal for all.
if you want to actually use your real CMDR, you get more rewards, but if the ship blows up, you blow up with it.. not a full insurance claim of course because your ship didnt blow up, but a medical bill instead.
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I this might upset some people, but I think you have to be a pretty sad individual to get so wound up about a seeming "knee-jerk" explanation to a gmaeplay mechanic that is so obviously designed around fun and accessibility (i.e. like many existing aspects of the game, e.g. instant respawn).
I mean, FDev introduced MC as a new gameplay feature first. They only threw the "errrrm... telepresence?" explanation in because idiots were crying about how, "OMFGWTFBBQ!!! EVERIFIN MUST BE EXPLAIND in DE LORRRE!!!"
Of course, telepresence doesn't make sense in light of this. It was clearly a knee-jerk reaction to appease the wrath of the hardcore lore-purists before they started stinking up the forums with endless polls, campaigning to get the MC mechanic nerfed for the sake of "teh immershun" (which incidentally they predictably went on to do anyway).
The point is, however, who flipping cares whether "telepresence" is a good explanation or not. The MC feature is CLEARLY a feature not designed around immersion and consistency and for good reason. If the design intent of the feature is so flipping ostensibly obvious by looking at it, then there's little reason to even ask for an explanation in the first place... same way we don't demand an explanation for death and instant respawn, but rather accept that "in a game... some aspects will always have to be gamey by nature".
I blame the idiots in the community for demanding an explanation for something that doesn't need it. Certainly not FDev, for throwing them a bone... however "derpy" that bone may be.
I mean, FDev introduced MC as a new gameplay feature first. They only threw the "errrrm... telepresence?" explanation in because idiots were crying about how, "OMFGWTFBBQ!!! EVERIFIN MUST BE EXPLAIND in DE LORRRE!!!"
Of course, telepresence doesn't make sense in light of this. It was clearly a knee-jerk reaction to appease the wrath of the hardcore lore-purists before they started stinking up the forums with endless polls, campaigning to get the MC mechanic nerfed for the sake of "teh immershun" (which incidentally they predictably went on to do anyway).
The point is, however, who flipping cares whether "telepresence" is a good explanation or not. The MC feature is CLEARLY a feature not designed around immersion and consistency and for good reason. If the design intent of the feature is so flipping ostensibly obvious by looking at it, then there's little reason to even ask for an explanation in the first place... same way we don't demand an explanation for death and instant respawn, but rather accept that "in a game... some aspects will always have to be gamey by nature".
I blame the idiots in the community for demanding an explanation for something that doesn't need it. Certainly not FDev, for throwing them a bone... however "derpy" that bone may be.
i remember a time when people could have a differing opinion without being an idiot........ I suppose I must be ignorant of the meaning of discussion.
Agree with me or you are an idiot is your definition it seems.
My issue with it is, it COULD have still had your instant access put in, AND been additive for all, AND not broken any lore. a win for everyone.
I get that you are just playing a game and want to pew pew at a moments notice, and do not give 2 squits about game consistency or narrative... and that IS OK. No need to project onto those who feel different however.
IF all you care about is instant action and not bothered about anything other than that, then surely it would not bother you if it is your avatar you get to see rather than the captains crew person? Or do you have double standards and you must only play as your CMDR?
Who knows perhaps what we have now is placeholder and one day it will be fleshed out to make sense?
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I like it a lot better than telepresence.
There is a very simple solution. Have an option under the options menu called "Immersion enabled". If someone has that option selected then they can only multi-crew with someone who is docked at the same station as them.
For people (like me) who are happy with telepresence or instant-travel for multi-crew then they just leave that option disabled and they can enjoy this feature as Frontier intended.
For people (like me) who are happy with telepresence or instant-travel for multi-crew then they just leave that option disabled and they can enjoy this feature as Frontier intended.