Am I the only one who thinks the price of shipping ships is far too high?

[V'larr]

Nice cherry picking sound bites to fit your agenda, V'larr. I went on to clarify a few lines later that it occasionally is quite useful to me, so I actually use it occasionally...as I perceive its intended. My primary reason for using it on a limited basis is that I actually prefer to just fly my ship, not because the feature is inherently useless.

It's not cherry picking and these aren't sound bites...and you're merely repeating yourself.

I know plenty of people who are constantly having their warships moved to new theatres of operation on a weekly basis, btw. It isn't prohibitively expensive unless we're talking something extreme like moving a big ship to Colonia. It's just too expensive for you. If you don't agree, perhaps you should start a poll?

And my instant suspicion is these people you know, who have these warships (is that 1 per person or more?) that need moving, have obtained their 'endgame' ships, have the credits to burn, and/or continue to earn more credits every week by doing lots of RES farming, especially if these theatres of operation are Community Goals...bounty-hunting ones seem to be a regular occurence. With *those* CGs in mind, then yes, of course it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. (I'm aware some people expressly collect bounties and save them just to hand in at CGs for maximim benefit from the rewards, contributing to why bounty CGs so consistently reach the final tier ahead of time....)

If Fdev wants to put up a poll about the cost of ship transfer, that's up to them. That's no longer the forte of us forumites.

 

[Ozram]

Out of the context of this thread, the endgame you described make sense. In the context of this thread, I've been using it to compare where you are at, compared to most other players who aren't as far in the game as you or I are.

I've had just as much experience you've had using it, in me playing and regularly *not* using this feature - therefore I could name just as many in-game examples of situations where I decided against using ship transfer because it's not equitable or balanced for me.

As you say, at some point we may as well agree to disagree.



First, imaginary agenda? There's nothing imaginary about not using this feature because it costs too much.

Second, even in this particular thread there's been many other posters who have came in and said, "Yeah, it's too much."

They're just not as vocal as Ozram, myself, and you, presumably thinking this is a simple issue....



So you're happy simply ignoring a quality of life addition to the game. Real successful feature, that....



I'm not asking for it to be spammed or insignificant. Just less than it is right now.

The devs also described being in a Type 9 and wanting to participate in a CZ. Given the costs involved and the risk of insurance payouts from that CZ unless one is very self-assured in their combat ability (or are just using Engineered ships...urgh), it's not altogether wise to do that in many situations, unless your definition of a CZ-worthy combat ship happens to be a Viper III, I guess, or you just really have enough credits to take the risks.



"Dead horse" and "yelling from the rafters", you say? Who's pushing agendas now?

What context would that be, exactly? The general assumption I am under is that once you approach endgame there is very little content left to explore and goals to achieve. By any reasonable measurement I can say with confidence that I do not approach that in the slightest. As for "most" players, I have no such metrics to go by. So far as I can see, they aren't talking here and I'm pretty sure you haven't been voted in to speak for them. It's an irrelevant point. Why do you find it too expensive in your gameplay? Share an example. I've certainly shared plenty where the transfer mechanic has benefited me. Either way, this may end in the agree to disagree, however, a few examples of where you might have used the mechanic but found it prohibitively expensive would be useful. I've certainly provided examples of where it is not. Without question it has made my gaming more convenient and allowed me to spend more time on tasks I enjoy than I otherwise would all without impoverishing me for it.

 

[NW3]

That mission's payout could have gone toward your rebuy amount, then, and you wouldn't have even needed your Asp Explorer if you kept finding more of those good payouts, surely?

Bottom line, you're out 400k that you could have kept in-pocket. (I once had an A-rated Type 9 myself [pre-engineers] so I can appreciate the costs and effort involved.)

CGs are definitely super profitable...sometimes I question whether they should be *so* profitable, like that one Imperial CG where players got something like a 200-300 million prize at the end of it...different topic that, I suppose. I'll at least acknowledge that for CGs, the price of ship transfer is more than made up for by the bonus (assuming the CG succeeds), so it does make sense in the context of doing CGs - if that's all the official intent was by Fdev, I'd even say that makes sense.

In some cases, maybe the price for Colonia transfers aren't horridly prohibitive, but I'd rather open up the opportunity than close it off to the overly wealthy.

In the end, again, maybe we'll agree to disagree, because I too have seen other players express a want to keep Colonia 'exclusive'...which I do indeed disagree with. So long as CMDRs have to make the initial journey themselves, at least.

True, I paid 400K for the transfer, but I earned it back with 1 quick mission and then I did a bunch of CG deliveries, to ensure I stayed in the top 10% of the CG. Seems like a reasonable expenditure to me.

I was out at Jaques Station, even before it was even called Colonia. I really liked the fact that the only players out there (at the time) were explorers. It did feel exclusive and personally, I'm OK with that. I usually play in Solo, but I switched to the FleetComm group for a while and even did some mining (for a CG) with some like-minded explorers. It was fun and a nice change of pace and I learned some good mining tips, but Colonia is too limiting for me, at the moment. That's why I returned to the bubble.

 

[V'larr]

What context would that be, exactly? The general assumption I am under is that once you approach endgame there is very little content left to explore and goals to achieve. By any reasonable measurement I can say with confidence that I do not approach that in the slightest. As for "most" players, I have no such metrics to go by. So far as I can see, they aren't talking here and I'm pretty sure you haven't been voted in to speak for them. It's an irrelevant point. Why do you find it too expensive in your gameplay? Share an example. I've certainly shared plenty where the transfer mechanic has benefited me. Either way, this may end in the agree to disagree, however, a few examples of where you might have used the mechanic but found it prohibitively expensive would be useful. I've certainly provided examples of where it is not. Without question it has made my gaming more convenient and allowed me to spend more time on tasks I enjoy than I otherwise would all without impoverishing me for it.

Debating the meaning of endgame and context is getting to be wearisome, but...here, I would define it as having the ships (and related outfitting) you want to have, achieving the achievements available in the game (e.g. Elite ranks), and having nothing further to 'grind' or work or save up for. Put in other words: being done with progression.

Having "very little content left to explore", on the other hand, I think does not apply to Elite whatsoever. There's a wealth of things to do even if you reach the 'endgame' as I just described it - including literally exploring.

I don't see how you need metrics to comprehend how players who are new to the game or still progressing through the game are going to be more commonplace than those who have completed their progression? That's just the nature of any gaming population.

The way I play, every credit counts and contributes towards saving towards my goals. I'm a completionist: I like to plan and plot and optimise what I do. I don't like wasting anything, and I don't like rewards for my time and effort being made unmade - e.g. World of Tanks, where repair/ammo costs for tanks (let alone premium ammo or consumables) pretty much limit 'free to play' to tier 7, maybe 8, with 9s and 10s netting you a loss in credits even on good wins unless you have a Premium account.

This is to a large extent why I highly dislike RNG; I no longer play World of Tanks because it is infused into practically every aspect of combat, such that all the tactics and aiming ability in the world is inadequate compared to sheer luck. It's also why I despise the hit-or-miss roulette nature of Engineering things...even if the pain is lessened without commodities and the tripled material/data amounts, it's still collecting tickets to use at a casino....

Right now, my Cutter is at LHS 283, almost exactly 200 ly away from my adopted home of Munshin, where I have my Python and a currently partly-assembled Anaconda parked.

To transfer either of them to my current location would be about 1.7 million credits apiece.

Granted, that's coverable by one two-hop loop trading in my Cutter...but I'm using the absolute pinnacle of trading ability, here. If I were in a different ship and were trying to transfer this Cutter, I'm positive it would be significantly more. If my trading ship were instead a Type 7 or even the Type 9, that 1.7 million credits would have a bigger impact on requisite time and effort to make up the loss...which I imagine would be a more pressing issue if my available time were more limited.

For me to consider using it...well:
Here's a post another player put together some time ago in a similar thread, including an image of a spreadsheet with prices that I think are very ideal: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=4683240&viewfull=1#post4683240. If you browse that thread, I believe there may be other similar images with some variations, but this is the particular one I have bookmarked.

edit: TLDR:

 

[Riverside]

And my instant suspicion is these people you know, who have these warships (is that 1 per person or more?) that need moving, have obtained their 'endgame' ships, have the credits to burn, and/or continue to earn more credits every week by doing lots of RES farming, especially if these theatres of operation are Community Goals...bounty-hunting ones seem to be a regular occurence. With *those* CGs in mind, then yes, of course it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. (I'm aware some people expressly collect bounties and save them just to hand in at CGs for maximim benefit from the rewards, contributing to why bounty CGs so consistently reach the final tier ahead of time....)

To be fair, JasonBarron isn't a farmer, just like you & I he has simply played the game a lot. I agree with much of what you say about end-game ships & credit sinks, and I think it's okay that the cost is punishing if you are not at that level, and potentially any cost is trivial depending on just how much cash a player has accumulated.

Whatever level the cost is set at, some will think it's too expensive & the rest will think it's okay (or good value). I believe the current level is such that the majority accept it. There will always be those that think the cost is too high, if only because there are as many playstyles as there are players.

If the current costs were to remain but your Trade earning potential were higher, do you think the current cost would be okay?

 

[V'larr]

True, I paid 400K for the transfer, but I earned it back with 1 quick mission and then I did a bunch of CG deliveries, to ensure I stayed in the top 10% of the CG. Seems like a reasonable expenditure to me.

I was out at Jaques Station, even before it was even called Colonia. I really liked the fact that the only players out there (at the time) were explorers. It did feel exclusive and personally, I'm OK with that. I usually play in Solo, but I switched to the FleetComm group for a while and even did some mining (for a CG) with some like-minded explorers. It was fun and a nice change of pace and I learned some good mining tips, but Colonia is too limiting for me, at the moment. That's why I returned to the bubble.

Ahh, but see, a CG was involved.

You know, if transfers are meant to be used in conjunction with CGs, the high price is explained rather well by the rather massive rewards all participants get for completing it....

Outside of CGs though, I think it's too much.

I'd propose bringing both transfer prices and CG rewards down, but then, I wager there'd be a bit of outcry at nerfing CG rewards, and that gets into the back-and-forth development that Fdev's been doing with CGs of late, too, playing with rewards and reasonable time limits and tiers and so on...so I admit that will likely not happen.

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair, JasonBarron isn't a farmer, just like you & I he has simply played the game a lot. I agree with much of what you say about end-game ships & credit sinks, and I think it's okay that the cost is punishing if you are not at that level, and potentially any cost is trivial depending on just how much cash a player has accumulated.

Whatever level the cost is set at, some will think it's too expensive & the rest will think it's okay (or good value). I believe the current level is such that the majority accept it. There will always be those that think the cost is too high, if only because there are as many playstyles as there are players.

If the current costs were to remain but your Trade earning potential were higher, do you think the current cost would be okay?

That is an interesting question....

If other costs (fuel, repair, ammo, fines, ship and module prices) were raised to be in proportion with ship transfers, in addition to higher trading potential...and higher rewards for other things like mining and rare trading...and higher rank/credit rewards for killing wanted ships at the same time as an update to AI ability (especially where loadout design is concerned)...probably leaving alone Passenger reward which are quite high as it is....

If all that happened at about the same time, I'd probably settle for calling it "okay".

 

[SkipRat]

Endgame.... cost of ships... WTH are you waffling on about... It's pointless. There is no end game, because after watching a couple youtube vids, you will be earning 100 million credits a week... or even a day if they get it right.

There is no end game, it's not the cost of ships is not the problem, its the amount of stupid levels of money people can without a single effective credit sink, or effective game mechanics to balance the what you earn out... It's pathetically sad really.

 

[NW3]

Ahh, but see, a CG was involved.

You know, if transfers are meant to be used in conjunction with CGs, the high price is explained rather well by the rather massive rewards all participants get for completing it....

Outside of CGs though, I think it's too much.

I'd propose bringing both transfer prices and CG rewards down...

I've used transfer outside of a CG too. It depends on the situation. Sometimes it's worth it; sometimes it's not (and I don't transfer, instead I fly to retrieve it myself).

Even though I was in the top 10%, the CG payout was only 16 million cr. I lost 8 m cr when I lost an interdiction (first time in months), so I netted a little more than 1 m cr per day. That sounds about right for a CG: 1-3 m cr per day of effort.

 

[Riverside]

That is an interesting question....

If other costs (fuel, repair, ammo, fines, ship and module prices) were raised to be in proportion with ship transfers, in addition to higher trading potential...and higher rewards for other things like mining and rare trading...and higher rank/credit rewards for killing wanted ships at the same time as an update to AI ability (especially where loadout design is concerned)...probably leaving alone Passenger reward which are quite high as it is....

If all that happened at about the same time, I'd probably settle for calling it "okay".

Okay so lets examine the logic here:

Fuel, repairs, other sundries are better value than ship transfer costs (you are effectively saying), and if earnings improve across the board, then the equation balances out.

Now I'm pretty sure earnings have increased across the board (there may be exceptions, for example I don't mine much and am out of touch). Even without anything resembling an exploit it's possible to comfortably earn 2x or 3x as much per hour as it was when I was ranking up a year or so ago.

If you mostly trade, it could be that your regular A-B runs are still as profitable as before but other, better paying opportunities are out there. I know my old routes are long dead & I make most of my money from missions & scavenging planets, often in a Cobra. Do you think your play style is at the low earning end of typical?

It could be that, having accumulated enough cash for some bigger ships over a long period, your natural income from day-to-day activities isn't enough to cover the lifestyle & ships you've accumulated.

I tend to earn credits in spurts of activity. I generally bum around (I'm currently out exploring), earning virtually nil & slowly haemorrhaging cash until I decide I need to bulk up the coffers a bit with some concerted activity.

 

[Ozram]

Debating the meaning of endgame and context is getting to be wearisome, but...here, I would define it as having the ships (and related outfitting) you want to have, achieving the achievements available in the game (e.g. Elite ranks), and having nothing further to 'grind' or work or save up for. Put in other words: being done with progression.

Having "very little content left to explore", on the other hand, I think does not apply to Elite whatsoever. There's a wealth of things to do even if you reach the 'endgame' as I just described it - including literally exploring.

I don't see how you need metrics to comprehend how players who are new to the game or still progressing through the game are going to be more commonplace than those who have completed their progression? That's just the nature of any gaming population.

The way I play, every credit counts and contributes towards saving towards my goals. I'm a completionist: I like to plan and plot and optimise what I do. I don't like wasting anything, and I don't like rewards for my time and effort being made unmade - e.g. World of Tanks, where repair/ammo costs for tanks (let alone premium ammo or consumables) pretty much limit 'free to play' to tier 7, maybe 8, with 9s and 10s netting you a loss in credits even on good wins unless you have a Premium account.

This is to a large extent why I highly dislike RNG; I no longer play World of Tanks because it is infused into practically every aspect of combat, such that all the tactics and aiming ability in the world is inadequate compared to sheer luck. It's also why I despise the hit-or-miss roulette nature of Engineering things...even if the pain is lessened without commodities and the tripled material/data amounts, it's still collecting tickets to use at a casino....

Right now, my Cutter is at LHS 283, almost exactly 200 ly away from my adopted home of Munshin, where I have my Python and a currently partly-assembled Anaconda parked.

To transfer either of them to my current location would be about 1.7 million credits apiece.

Granted, that's coverable by one two-hop loop trading in my Cutter...but I'm using the absolute pinnacle of trading ability, here. If I were in a different ship and were trying to transfer this Cutter, I'm positive it would be significantly more. If my trading ship were instead a Type 7 or even the Type 9, that 1.7 million credits would have a bigger impact on requisite time and effort to make up the loss...which I imagine would be a more pressing issue if my available time were more limited.

For me to consider using it...well:
Here's a post another player put together some time ago in a similar thread, including an image of a spreadsheet with prices that I think are very ideal: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=4683240&viewfull=1#post4683240. If you browse that thread, I believe there may be other similar images with some variations, but this is the particular one I have bookmarked.

edit: TLDR:
http://i.imgur.com/turoejN.jpg

It's interesting. By the very information you have provided my points are more supported than yours. Transfer prices are affordable and scale with price of ship and distance. If you have a Cutter, that million + transfer is quickly covered. The same applies to a Python owner and again to someone using a hauler. So in all likelyhood, anyone at any stage in the game where they have more than one ship would find it viable. Also, by your definition of endgame, as stated in your post, I am massively far from it and as you point out, ED isn't about end game anyway. Thanks for providing the evidence to support my points and previous experiences to begin with.
Good day
Edit: That's a lovely chart you provided.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Right now, my Cutter is at LHS 283, almost exactly 200 ly away from my adopted home of Munshin, where I have my Python and a currently partly-assembled Anaconda parked.

To transfer either of them to my current location would be about 1.7 million credits apiece.

Granted, that's coverable by one two-hop loop trading in my Cutter...but I'm using the absolute pinnacle of trading ability, here. If I were in a different ship and were trying to transfer this Cutter, I'm positive it would be significantly more. If my trading ship were instead a Type 7 or even the Type 9, that 1.7 million credits would have a bigger impact on requisite time and effort to make up the loss...which I imagine would be a more pressing issue if my available time were more limited.

So basically you are using some of the most expensive ships in the game, a partially outfitted big 3 and the singularly most expensive medium ship in the entire game, and dragging them pretty much the largest distance that you will encounter within the bubble? That's hardly a routine operation. These ships are expensive, expensive enough that you should consider taxiing them yourself (particularly the Anaconda with it's large jump range). If you replace the distance with a more reasonable 100ly and move the ships that make up the bulk of most player's fleets such as Cobras, Vultures, ICouriers, Clippers and AspXs and you will find the prices much more affordable. Even if you are moving ships like that to make a new adopted home system, what's a few million over a long period of several months of settling into a system, particularly for a player wealthy enough to already own an Anaconda and a Python? Sure, you probably wouldn't be able to move home twice a week, but the whole point is that it shouldn't be a trivial thing to move entire fleets around, it should be done as a long-term investment after careful consideration.

Sure, dragging big, expensive ships around is expensive and you make the point that the money is only easy to make back if you are flying even bigger, more expensive ships; however, if you don't have even more capable ships in your fleet to make back the funds it's likely that you are instead already flying the ship that you would otherwise transfer. Who cares what your personal flagship costs to transfer if you are already flying it? The only ships that the transfer costs matter for are the little utility ships that you bring out for special occasions that it's not worth you personally fetching yourself. The most expensive ship I have ever transferred is my FDS and even that was a one-off when I moved home system, every time I have wanted my larger ships for something I have ensured that I am already flying them or I have made do with smaller ones.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

It is what it is, deal with it.
Credits are in so great a supply I can't get why this is such a big deal.
Pay for stuff!

Maybe this game needs a Galactic depression where credits are devalued and everyone has to scrape for stuff.
Then y'all may have to do a lot of things just to get by.

Never gonna happen though because you cry too much.

 

[Kigre]

I don't care about immersion or lore here, I'm just talking gaming. This is a game. Fdev is literally punishing players for having FUN in the game, vs. boring hour-long travel in some of the more limited ships (typically combat ships).

The point as I see it is that combat ships shouldn't be able to keep up with/chase down non-combat (lighter) ships. Transferring ships is obviously not going to break that intention. So why is fdev charging us millions, sometimes tens of millions to transfer a ship 30-40 jumps (what is about 10 or 11 in an engineered ASP or light 'conda build).

The only reason I can see for it is to punish players for not having the time or wanting to spend the time doing boring stuff.

I just get my ships myself. Dont have to sit there and feel suckered. Try it.

 

[khaitom]

...snip...
so far the only argument i've seen is people don't want the grind gone because it would threaten them in some way, not because there is any other reason.

I agree, the dull grind of combat is so Booooring.

I don't know why anyone would dedicate much time to pvp. Pew Pew boom Pew Pew Sheild-cell Pew Pew boom Pew Pew yawn.

We need smart bombs. One button and all your targets are gone. They go pop faster and then can respawn and get on with playing, I get my kill and can move on. Everyone wins. Why should I have to chase a dozen CMDRs about a system to kill them all, they're all going to die anyway, just remove the grind. Frontier really needs to fix the amount of time it takes to kill ship after ship after ship. It's just really far too grindy to increase rank in combat.

When will Frontier listen and remove combat grind?

 

[V'larr]

I've used transfer outside of a CG too. It depends on the situation. Sometimes it's worth it; sometimes it's not.

Even though I was in the top 10%, the CG payout was only 16 million cr. I lost 8 m cr when I lost an interdiction (first time in months), so I netted a little more than 1 m cr per day. That sounds about right for a CG: 1-3 m cr per day of effort.

16 million is a lot of credits and I don't feel like we should use insurance claims to judge that by.

Okay so lets examine the logic here:
Fuel, repairs, other sundries are better value than ship transfer costs (you are effectively saying), and if earnings improve across the board, then the equation balances out.

Balancing out the equation was all I was thinking about, really. Many costs are already trivial in the live game, after all....

Now I'm pretty sure earnings have increased across the board (there may be exceptions, for example I don't mine much and am out of touch). Even without anything resembling an exploit it's possible to comfortably earn 2x or 3x as much per hour as it was when I was ranking up a year or so ago.
If you mostly trade, it could be that your regular A-B runs are still as profitable as before but other, better paying opportunities are out there. I know my old routes are long dead & I make most of my money from missions & scavenging planets, often in a Cobra. Do you think your play style is at the low earning end of typical?

I think the only thing that might have changed is trading in Medical Diagnostic Equipment.

I don't trade in Imperial Slaves for roleplay reasons, but I try to take that into account. I haven't had trouble using eddb.io to find routes when I do trading for a spell, so I don't really have any one route I stick to.

With MDEs, I expect maybe 3-3.5 million a run with 2-3 jumps, with an A-B route 800-1 million per each side of the route.

It's certainly not this:

It could be that, having accumulated enough cash for some bigger ships over a long period, your natural income from day-to-day activities isn't enough to cover the lifestyle & ships you've accumulated.

I have a grand total of 10 rebuys...so it's not the case that I am struggling.

It's more that it's a long way ahead yet, with my progression.
I'm currently at 175 million in-pocket; if I'm to invest in a Federal Corvette, outfit it and the Anaconda, possibly a Beluga too...and who knows if other ships will show up in the future, soon...then there's no way I'm going to start throwing credits, 1.5-2 million in a single go, for the sake of 'convenience'.

It's interesting. By the very information you have provided my points are more supported than yours. Transfer prices are affordable and scale with price of ship and distance. If you have a Cutter, that million + transfer is quickly covered.

That is not affordable. That's only 200 LY. That's spitting distance as far as travel is concerned. Going from one part of the human bubble to the other can be up towards 600 LY, a bit more if you include Maia.

Also, by your definition of endgame, as stated in your post, I am massively far from it and as you point out, ED isn't about end game anyway.

No...you fall under my definition of 'endgame' or approaching it, as I described before. You have a fleet of dedicated ships, one for just about ever possible role apparently and sometimes as many as 3 different ones for combat. You've been playing since beta. You have expressed no intent to progress further into larger ships, and I imagine with your progress, the choice to stay small is intentional. And you haven't refuted a lack of credits, so all that's left is that you don't have Elite trade and exploration ranks yet.

That's a lovely chart you provided.

That, I can agree on.

So basically you are using some of the most expensive ships in the game, a partially outfitted big 3 and the singularly most expensive medium ship in the entire game, and dragging them pretty much the largest distance that you will encounter within the bubble? That's hardly a routine operation.

First, I know full well it's not the "average player". He asked for an example of declining to use expensive transfer, so I gave it.

Second, 200 LY is not even close to the extent of the human bubble.

These ships are expensive, expensive enough that you should consider taxiing them yourself (particularly the Anaconda with it's large jump range).

"You finally made it to this big, expensive ship...so now you're stuck in it if you want to get it anywhere! What do you mean you're not a billionaire if you own one?!" Yeah, that's real fantastic....

If you replace the distance with a more reasonable 100ly and move the ships that make up the bulk of most player's fleets such as Cobras, Vultures, ICouriers, Clippers and AspXs and you will find the prices much more affordable.

That's not even spitting distance, that's like...stumbling distance. Space is big, dude. If it weren't affordable to move your ship, the equivalent of hailing a cab to head over 1 block, I'd be even more worried.

Even if you are moving ships like that to make a new adopted home system, what's a few million over a long period of several months of settling into a system

A few months? Why on earth should it take several months? It doesn't even take that long in real life, people can move residences in a single day. Even without ship transfer I can get that done in a few hours.

Yet again the term "a few million" comes up like it's some trifle pittance. It's not, and it shouldn't be.

And again, it's only "easy" for me to obtain because I already have the best possible trading ship in the game. That shouldn't be treated as your baseline.

Sure, you probably wouldn't be able to move home twice a week, but the whole point is that it shouldn't be a trivial thing to move entire fleets around, it should be done as a long-term investment after careful consideration.

I feel like we're not even talking about Elite Dangerous anymore....

If you were discussing the act of building a new station, or making our own planetary bases, that figure would make some sense.

But just moving ships from station to station? That's normally a matter of mere minutes, like driving from your driveway and parking on your neighbor's, or maybe one a block or two down the street.

Moving your fleet should be like relocating from your apartment to the one a door or two over, or maybe down or up a floor in the case of Maia - and over to a different apartment in another country in the case of Colonia.

The only ships that the transfer costs matter for are the little utility ships that you bring out for special occasions that it's not worth you personally fetching yourself.

Only so long as it remains so expensive that it necessitates using only little utility taxi ships with it.

The most expensive ship I have ever transferred is my FDS and even that was a one-off when I moved home system, every time I have wanted my larger ships for something I have ensured that I am already flying them or I have made do with smaller ones.

Right...that's a natural thing to do, when the feature is too expensive to be convenient otherwise.

 

[V'larr]

I agree, the dull grind of combat is so Booooring. <snip>
When will Frontier listen and remove combat grind?

The grind to Elite combat & RES farming is pretty long and boring, respectively, in my eyes....

 

[Ozram]

16 million is a lot of credits and I don't feel like we should use insurance claims to judge that by.



Balancing out the equation was all I was thinking about, really. Many costs are already trivial in the live game, after all....



I think the only thing that might have changed is trading in Medical Diagnostic Equipment.

I don't trade in Imperial Slaves for roleplay reasons, but I try to take that into account. I haven't had trouble using eddb.io to find routes when I do trading for a spell, so I don't really have any one route I stick to.

With MDEs, I expect maybe 3-3.5 million a run with 2-3 jumps, with an A-B route 800-1 million per each side of the route.

It's certainly not this:

I have a grand total of 10 rebuys...so it's not the case that I am struggling.

It's more that it's a long way ahead yet, with my progression.
I'm currently at 175 million in-pocket; if I'm to invest in a Federal Corvette, outfit it and the Anaconda, possibly a Beluga too...and who knows if other ships will show up in the future, soon...then there's no way I'm going to start throwing credits, 1.5-2 million in a single go, for the sake of 'convenience'.



That is not affordable. That's only 200 LY. That's spitting distance as far as travel is concerned. Going from one part of the human bubble to the other can be up towards 600 LY, a bit more if you include Maia.



No...you fall under my definition of 'endgame' or approaching it, as I described before. You have a fleet of dedicated ships, one for just about ever possible role apparently and sometimes as many as 3 different ones for combat. You've been playing since beta. You have expressed no intent to progress further into larger ships, and I imagine with your progress, the choice to stay small is intentional. And you haven't refuted a lack of credits, so all that's left is that you don't have Elite trade and exploration ranks yet.



That, I can agree on.



First, I know full well it's not the "average player". He asked for an example of declining to use expensive transfer, so I gave it.

Second, 200 LY is not even close to the extent of the human bubble.



"You finally made it to this big, expensive ship...so now you're stuck in it if you want to get it anywhere! What do you mean you're not a billionaire if you own one?!" Yeah, that's real fantastic....



That's not even spitting distance, that's like...stumbling distance. Space is big, dude. If it weren't affordable to move your ship, the equivalent of hailing a cab to head over 1 block, I'd be even more worried.



A few months? Why on earth should it take several months? It doesn't even take that long in real life, people can move residences in a single day. Even without ship transfer I can get that done in a few hours.

Yet again the term "a few million" comes up like it's some trifle pittance. It's not, and it shouldn't be.

And again, it's only "easy" for me to obtain because I already have the best possible trading ship in the game. That shouldn't be treated as your baseline.



I feel like we're not even talking about Elite Dangerous anymore....

If you were discussing the act of building a new station, or making our own planetary bases, that figure would make some sense.

But just moving ships from station to station? That's normally a matter of mere minutes, like driving from your driveway and parking on your neighbor's, or maybe one a block or two down the street.

Moving your fleet should be like relocating from your apartment to the one a door or two over, or maybe down or up a floor in the case of Maia - and over to a different apartment in another country in the case of Colonia.



Only so long as it remains so expensive that it necessitates using only little utility taxi ships with it.



Right...that's a natural thing to do, when the feature is too expensive to be convenient otherwise.

O V'larr, it IS affordable. I can vouch for that with personal experience. Also, my expressions of interest so far as you read into them are not grounded in evidence and certainly I have a better notion of my goals than you do. Seriously, what a ridiculous statement. I'm telling you I'm nowhere near endgame. I don't even think there's such a thing in ED. On a side note, I think it will be a year at least before I have rep for a corvette yet I purchased the Christmas paintjob for it. Put simply, the fact that I and many others use it without going broke is proof that it is affordable and the fact I have goals that span over years, means I'm nowhere near endgame. This is silliness!

 

[Iskariot]

I don't care about immersion or lore here, I'm just talking gaming. This is a game. Fdev is literally punishing players for having FUN in the game, vs. boring hour-long travel in some of the more limited ships (typically combat ships).

The point as I see it is that combat ships shouldn't be able to keep up with/chase down non-combat (lighter) ships. Transferring ships is obviously not going to break that intention. So why is fdev charging us millions, sometimes tens of millions to transfer a ship 30-40 jumps (what is about 10 or 11 in an engineered ASP or light 'conda build).

The only reason I can see for it is to punish players for not having the time or wanting to spend the time doing boring stuff.

I do believe it is unrealistically expensive.
These npc ship transporters get millions for just a few hours of work.
If I have someone transport my car to me, and he has to drive 4 hours or so, I sure ain't paying many millions for him to do so.
I feel it is absurd that a ship transporter would become a multi millionaire for a few hours of work.

Sandy Sammarco said that ship transfer would be cheaper if there was a time delay.
Makes me wonder what the costs would have been if it had been instant.

I only transport a ship over a relatively small distance once in a while.
I am hardly using the feature as it is now. It is too pricey.
To make it more accessible it should be cheaper I feel.

It doesn't have to become cheaper all over, but I think the prices become too high very quickly for bigger ships and longer distances.
Perhaps there could be a base fee + a markup for distance that gets lower when distances become greater.

 

[etien]

No, we need money sink to mitigate inflation

 

[RhymeRhyme]

I do believe it is unrealistically expensive.
These npc ship transporters get millions for just a few hours of work.
If I have someone transport my car to me, and he has to drive 4 hours or so, I sure ain't paying many millions for him to do so.
I feel it is absurd that a ship transporter would become a multi millionaire for a few hours of work.

Sandy Sammarco said that ship transfer would be cheaper if there was a time delay.
Makes me wonder what the costs would have been if it had been instant.

I only transport a ship over a relatively small distance once in a while.
I am hardly using the feature as it is now. It is too pricey.
To make it more accessible it should be cheaper I feel.

It doesn't have to become cheaper all over, but I think the prices become to high very quickly for bigger ships and longer distances.
Perhaps there could be a basic fee + a markup for distance that gets lower when distances become greater.

Totally agree. The costs are way to high. I never use it but I would love to use the feature to save valuable spare time and frustrating jump screen sessions. It's just stupid to waste my time jumping to a target destination for 40 minutes. What's that? Gameplay? NO! Clearly not.