Really Frontier?

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

Because its combat earnings!

Then why does trade rank not influence the prices you get on the commodity market??


The reason for the implementation of this nerf was to stop "NEW" players getting boosted....

Combat rank isn't the only representation of how "NEW" you are to the game, Read Edward Lewis's post again, link here

- - - Updated - - -

I've read it, and they specifically mentioned combat progression, not just progression overall. FD clearly wants combat rank (i.e., combat experience) to count for something. I expect they will apply similar reasoning to wing bounties as well. It makes no sense for a novice sidewinder pilot to get a full share of a wing bounty if an elite corvette in the wing is doing 99% of the work. There is no way they are letting that stand for all the same reasons they described for limiting multicrew bounties. The wing bounty proportions will be somewhat higher than simply being a gunner but there is no way they are allowing full bounty duplication for wings when 2.3 goes live. I suspect the "kill" will probably be credited to the CMDR who does the most damage (which is how it should have always been, and not just based on the killing shot) and everyone else will get a portion of that credited to them as well. In fact I would like to see ALL bounties in RES sites divided based on percentage damage done, so if 2-3 CMDRs are fighting the same ship they each have to share the bounty rather than one getting everything and the others getting nothing.

Then go read it again.

Quoting:

"Without this balance players would quickly be able to skip the initial progression in the game. This is something that was designed to teach players how to engage with the Elite Dangerous galaxy,"

"These new players won’t have learned the intricacies of each ship, the intricacies of combat, exploration or trade, and most importantly they won’t feel like they’ve earned the right to sit in the mighty Anaconda. "

"It would truly change the early in-game progression, and knock the balance of the game for the worse… "

Source
....

What if I have my own mighty Anaconda, and just want to sit in someone elses, and have my time rewarded the same as if I was sitting in my own anaconda

 

[Devari]

Then why does trade rank not influence the prices you get on the commodity market??

Because it's a commodity market. Warren Buffet doesn't get to buy gold or oil at a lower price just because he's Warren Buffet, he doesn't control commodity prices, supply and demand does.

You will be offered more lucrative trade missions if you have a higher trade rank so it definitely allows you to earn income faster. That doesn't mean that you can somehow buy publically traded commodities at below market value. You are an independent trader and have to find the market opportunities yourself, they won't voluntarily lose money on commodities just because you think they should sell to you more cheaply.

The reason for the implementation of this nerf was to stop "NEW" players getting boosted....

Combat rank isn't the only representation of how "NEW" you are to the game, Read Edward Lewis's post again, link here

Combat rank determines how "new" you are to combat. It's a measure of "kills" that corresponds to how many ships you've destroyed. Sorry but that's just the metric they're using, you can't pretend that trade or exploration rank should have any bearing on combat ranking or multicrew bounties.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

Because it's a commodity market. Warren Buffet doesn't get to buy gold or oil at a lower price just because he's Warren Buffet, he doesn't control commodity prices, supply and demand does.

You will be offered more lucrative trade missions if you have a higher trade rank so it definitely allows you to earn income faster. That doesn't mean that you can somehow buy publically traded commodities at below market value. You are an independent trader and have to find the market opportunities yourself, they won't voluntarily lose money on commodities just because you think they should sell to you more cheaply.



Combat rank determines how "new" you are to combat. It's a measure of "kills" that corresponds to how many ships you've destroyed. Sorry but that's just the metric they're using, you can't pretend that trade or exploration rank should have any bearing on combat ranking or multicrew bounties.

going with your warren buffet thing, the same way the a bounty hunter does not set the price of the bounty... he simply catches the person and collects the posted bounty, regardless of how good their kung fu is.. or if they are a black belt

And they removed the rank limitations on missions ages ago, I take Elite combat rank missions and complete them just to laugh at how easy they are

anyway, I'm done arguing with you, we get it, you got your Elite Combat rank last week and you feel that is an achievement.. and you want it to mean something.. so you want other "plebs" to have worse rewards than you... I get it.

just think unbiased for a moment... the points you are arguing are not the points and reasons Fdev implemented this feature for.

This is the ONLY time that the rank you are in any field effects your income currently in game.

This implementation, needs more consideration from Frontier, to go inline with their, Stop players bypassing early game progression... but still allow existing long time players enjoy the rewards in full

 

[Devari]

Then go read it again.

I read it right the first time. You must have missed this part that you quoted:

These new players won’t have learned the intricacies of each ship, the intricacies of combat, exploration or trade, and most importantly they won’t feel like they’ve earned the right to sit in the mighty Anaconda.

That's the key part here. You're working your way up from smaller ships, to medium-sized ships and then to the largest ships by learning how to fly them and how they perform in combat. The metric the Pilots Federation uses for that is combat rank.

What if I have my own mighty Anaconda, and just want to sit in someone elses, and have my time rewarded the same as if I was sitting in my own anaconda

Because you are not using or risking your own Anaconda. You don't get to demand the same rewards for tagging along with someone else and doing only a fraction of the work.

You might own a Domino's franchise and walk into Pizza Hut and tell them you want to work as a delivery driver. They don't care that you own another pizza business if you are just delivering pizzas for them, you will be paid according to the actual work you do. If you want to earn the big money then go back to running your own pizza business and cover the risks and expenses yourself. Don't expect that another pizza business will pay you equivalent to an owner's salary to deliver pizzas.

I mean I just don't understand why you think that you would ever get full rewards (or anything close to full rewards) for taking zero risk and firing a few turret hardpoints on someone else's ship.

 

[Skyjack]

well it's obv that 100 % reward is not just a way to parachute new players to FDL - but to parachute banned and restarted Cmdr IDs to FDL in one hour, effectively negating private bans. Rank is the only control that can't be bypassed or made instant by a coordinated group. supporting Fdev in this. a solid week's grind for an anti-ban wipe hurts edgy gameplay and no one else really - as without Cmdr file wipes it's a one-time effort not a Dante Allighieri brand bleak, permanent, hopeless, low-return grind.

 

[Devari]

going with your warren buffet thing, the same way the a bounty hunter does not set the price of the bounty... he simply catches the person and collects the posted bounty, regardless of how good their kung fu is.. or if they are a black belt

And they removed the rank limitations on missions ages ago, I take Elite combat rank missions and complete them just to laugh at how easy they are

anyway, I'm done arguing with you, we get it, you got your Elite Combat rank last week and you feel that is an achievement.. and you want it to mean something.. so you want other "plebs" to have worse rewards than you... I get it.

How do they get "worse rewards than me"? They get exactly the same rewards I got as I was leveling up my own combat ranks. I didn't get it given to me for free, I had to deal with the same poor missions and poor progression when I started as well. You might as well suggest that new players should also get more lucrative missions even if they aren't allied to local factions. Should they skip the local rep grind too?

just think unbiased for a moment... the points you are arguing are not the points and reasons Fdev implemented this feature for.

This is the ONLY time that the rank you are in any field effects your income currently in game.

This implementation, needs more consideration from Frontier, to go inline with their, Stop players bypassing early game progression... but still allow existing long time players enjoy the rewards in full

Actually, if anything FD should go back to rank-locking missions again, that gave the ranks actual meaning and naturally improved progression from missions. That's not just for combat, it's also for trade and exploration. It makes sense that the most demanding and lucrative missions require a certain amount of experience before you will be offered them from an employer.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

I read it right the first time. You must have missed this part that you quoted:


That's the key part here. You're working your way up from smaller ships, to medium-sized ships and then to the largest ships by learning how to fly them and how they perform in combat. The metric the Pilots Federation uses for that is combat rank.

Nope Combat rank isn't any form of metric that the pilots Federation uses for anything, its just to Epeen how gud you are, by shooting many many ships

I have a lower combat rank than you and have bigger, better, and most likely more engineered ships than you... Combat rank has nothing to do with ship progression dude

 

[Devari]

Nope Combat rank isn't any form of metric that the pilots Federation uses for anything, its just to Epeen how gud you are, by shooting many many ships

I have a lower combat rank than you and have bigger, better, and most likely more engineered ships than you... Combat rank has nothing to do with ship progression dude

It's like you didn't read anything that I posed at all about pilots and flight hours. That is an actual metric used to rank airline pilots and it has nothing to do with your skill. It's literally just hours spent in the cockpit. Same as the Pilots Federation ranks for combat, trading and exploration. It's not a "skill" metric, it's an "experience" metric.

I literally explained this to you already in an earlier post. I really have no idea why you've managed to miss this entire concept somehow.

 

[CMDR ColD_ZA]

It's like you didn't read anything that I posed at all about pilots and flight hours. That is an actual metric used to rank airline pilots and it has nothing to do with your skill. It's literally just hours spent in the cockpit. Same as the Pilots Federation ranks for combat, trading and exploration. It's not a "skill" metric, it's an "experience" metric.

I literally explained this to you already in an earlier post. I really have no idea why you've managed to miss this entire concept somehow.

I'm glad you're not a designer on Elite dangerous

"Before you are actually allowed to play the game you need to spend 1000 hours in the training scenarios", only then will the pilots federation give you your free sidewinder and 1000 credits

That is literally how you sound


Edit: I'm just pulling your leg, because you are arguing your own Donald Trump "MAKE COMBAT RANK GREAT AGAIN" schpeel while I'm arguing the point that Frontier made

The point about not letting "New players" who have just purchased the game, bypass the games initial progression....

if you have Elite, or 1 or 2 ranks lower in any other discipline then you are not a "NEW" player... and this nerf should not apply to you in accordance with Edward Lewis's logic in his post

Referenced Edward post

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Glad you brought this up and I agree whole-heartedly. FD, nerf the Wing mechanics as well!

how would people feel if the percentage of the bounty award was based on a percentage of the damage done? this is how most games do it.....

too gamey? would you "buy" it if the lore was our computers monitored the amount of damage done some how (probably best not to write it into the lore at all perhaps, lest we get telepresence arguments mark 2)

wings are a little different to multicrew becuase every member of a wing risks their ship and a rebuy where as in multicrew its more like CQC, no risk all reward, apart from the skipper who risks it all along with giving a random person a gun whilst shooting in the skippers name.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

CMDR A "Hey Bran, come and multicrew with me. Got a mission to take some passenger's out to some nebula and you know what your doing out in the black far better than I do."
Bran "OK, how much profit we looking at?"
CMDR A "Well all you do is explore so I'll pay you 10%!"
Bran *Are you sure you want to remove CMDR A from your friends list?*

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

CMDR A "Hey Bran, come and multicrew with me. Got a mission to take some passenger's out to some nebula and you know what your doing out in the black far better than I do."
Bran "OK, how much profit we looking at?"
CMDR A "Well all you do is explore so I'll pay you 10%!"
Bran *Are you sure you want to remove CMDR A from your friends list?*

right now multicrew is combat only.. there is no mechanics to support exploration. maybe one day (fingers crossed) but for now, i absolutely would expect to pay a "harmless" ranked gunner or slf pilot for my ship less than a dangerous one for instance

 

[mmm]

The only thing i was looking forward to with multicrew was the gunner position. I wanted to hop into someones ship and do some relaxed shooting occasionally when i'm too lazy to fly myself. With the payouts in beta 5 I wont even log in in those situations.

The game is not about money grinding for me. But since earning credits is extremely slow if I don't grind the common exploits (which i generally refuse to do), I'm aiming at atleast 2m credits per hour. If the payouts stay like they are now, I wont even bother with multicrew.

 

[Thetele]

I read it right the first time. You must have missed this part that you quoted:



That's the key part here. You're working your way up from smaller ships, to medium-sized ships and then to the largest ships by learning how to fly them and how they perform in combat. The metric the Pilots Federation uses for that is combat rank.



Because you are not using or risking your own Anaconda. You don't get to demand the same rewards for tagging along with someone else and doing only a fraction of the work.

You might own a Domino's franchise and walk into Pizza Hut and tell them you want to work as a delivery driver. They don't care that you own another pizza business if you are just delivering pizzas for them, you will be paid according to the actual work you do. If you want to earn the big money then go back to running your own pizza business and cover the risks and expenses yourself. Don't expect that another pizza business will pay you equivalent to an owner's salary to deliver pizzas.

I mean I just don't understand why you think that you would ever get full rewards (or anything close to full rewards) for taking zero risk and firing a few turret hardpoints on someone else's ship.

So they should remove all combat rewards for all big 3 ships? As there is no risk at all if you fly anaconda, cutter or corvette. Those ships are so OP in pve that you pretty much need to cause your own death to die in those ships. My anaconda doesn't have weapon or shield modifications at all, carry 128 tons of cargo and 3 size 5 passenger cabins, srv, fighter bay at same time and i can survive everything i see in pve.

In big 3 there is no risk to take part to pve combat, so there can't be less risk if you happen to be in someone else ship.

MC is boring enough so most will not use it even if everyone get 100% of bounty from each kill (bounty is 3x every time). Now mc pays poorly and new player in sideys can make more in nav point by kill stealing from polices in a hour than they can do by playing mc for hole day. One kill steal can give you 100 000 cr but same kill in mc give about 3000 cr. They should go back to the beta 4 way or the mm for mc will be death in couple days, and only griefers will use mc as playing solo is better and mc only give benefits to griefers.

This isn't to balance or slow the progression, its nerfing hole mc feature and once again punish people who want to play together. Only frontier is stupid enough to think this is good thing and no other developer would do or even think about this kind of limitation.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Wings are different. Even if a novice player in a Sidewinder is winged up with a billion credit warship that's doing all the heavy lifting, they're still learning to fly and at risk of dying.

PLEASE, can someone tell me the difference between a buddy doing 99% of the work but letting the sidey get the kill (because I assume the "killshot = reward" is still in place) and letting the newbro sit in the billion credit ship while it does the same thing?

If you are not actually doing any of the shooting, you are NOT LEARNING HOW TO.

As for risk of dying - has the aggro mechanic changed or do NPC's still attack the guy shooting at them? So the newbro sidey is in no danger of anything other than fat rewards for 1% effort.

Another FDev poorly thought out mechanic.

I think the whole ethos behind multicrew was supposed to be "play together FOR FUN, not credits" but realised players would want credits too (ofc they do, game time is money), so they added shared rewards and have now only just remembered that players are not stupid and will farm whatever is the fastest SAFEST way to get credits (because they keep forgetting this), so they nerfed it, and BINGO no-one does multicrew except on rare occasions when they feel like a bit of variety.

Was there NO-ONE at Fdev who could see this coming?

 

[Whitehair]

Then why does trade rank not influence the prices you get on the commodity market??

Because as a crewman you are not involved in the trade transaction.

 

[Cobra1984]

Was there NO-ONE at Fdev who could see this coming?

Apparently not, which puts a bit of a damper on any hopes for existing mechanics becoming more fleshed out, joined up or more meaningful.

I think Frontier just demonstrated a spectacular weakness for gameplay mechanics with all of this.

 

[bubbabenali]

Because its combat earnings!

You know that this "feature" is only added to stop newbe leeching right?

What if an elite explorer whant's to dip in combat for a while? Why punish him for not fighting 24/7 before that?

Honestly, Elite Dangerous is leaning way too much in favour of combat - it's time for FDev to refocus a bit.

 

[Stealthie]

The only thing i was looking forward to with multicrew was the gunner position. I wanted to hop into someones ship and do some relaxed shooting occasionally when i'm too lazy to fly myself. With the payouts in beta 5 I wont even log in in those situations.

The game is not about money grinding for me. But since earning credits is extremely slow if I don't grind the common exploits (which i generally refuse to do), I'm aiming at atleast 2m credits per hour. If the payouts stay like they are now, I wont even bother with multicrew.

"I'm only interested in muticrew because it's fun but I'm not gonna do it if I don't get paid a heap of credits"

:S

 

[Jex =TE=]

I can only guess the case is that, someone riding his stomp-wagon war machine and destroying stuff is wanted to be limited from making his freshman buddy, who he just bought into the game, sit next to him and reap huge rewards, making him jump from a Sidewinder into a Fer-De-Lance in a quick while as he skips all the ships and content and joy and experience in between.

Well, when two sidewinder buddies in wing blasts up an Anaconda with 380,000 bounty on it, they get 190,000 credits each, but, can they really blast an Anaconda? 190k credits is a lot much for a newbro in a Sidewinder, but he could get that in matter of minutes by sitting in his buddy in his Anaconda if he was getting fully split rewards. Then perhaps there would appear websites selling this kind of powerleveling service for money after that too?

Just trying to figure the logic behind it [noob]

That would be an amazing answer IF FDev hadn't made getting cash so easy now. Does it only take an hour in a CZ before you're in your first Cobra these days? Probably even less? How many poo runs are there still? It's also really stupid if you think about it. They try to stop credit gain on the feature most new players won't be using and then make it even a worse reward for people already playing the game.

In a game where it's YOUR ship and you go where YOU want, MC was already a bad idea as who wants to sit in a turret bar a handful of people. Now you've just taken away the only incentive their could be.

I can only assume the the MC gameplay is that amazing that you don't need monetary rewards for it?

- - - Updated - - -

Ed's reasoning in this is good. It sounded far to exploity beforehand. I would like to try it before I whine about it.

Then they need to fix the other exploits first and reduce payouts everywhere as they're far too high. 6k bounty for Elites, 200 cr's for delivery missions and ore is 300 per ton.

If everyone thinks the payouts for MC are too high then they need to start playing ED again so they can see how easy credit earning is.

Did everyone here stop playing back in january 2014? LOL