Trident is a US asset, not a UK asset.
General / Off-Topic is scotland leaving the UK?
- Thread starter jmg
- Start date
Trident is a US asset, not a UK asset.
Minti2
Deadly, But very fluffy...
Keep harping on about it as much as you like, the British have full independent authority to launch UK Trident(i could source you tons of stuff but am sure you can find it yourself
....now am off to do something to keep Britain great, work with my Disability guys, a caring nation, even if others believe we are not 
PS am Scottish and hope to stay in the Union, love the UK as it is
As the majority of the Scottish people
verminstar
Banned
Lets just say, you didn`t have your 21rst last week
Has anyone on this thread?
And once more.
This is misleading rubbish.
I told you several times now. (Albeit I am not surprised you dont listen as you tend to just life in your own little world and ignore anything you dislike anyways)
1.
Scotland only Collects a Part of the Total Taxes in Scotland. As certain Taxable Areas are done by the UK Central Government.
Meaning they are Counted towards the UK not Scotland.
But these will be Added to Scotland if they Leave.
2.
Scotland is 8.1% of the UKs GDP and 8.6% of its Population.
But it only gets 4.9% of the Budget.
Notice something ?
Funny that 8.6% of the UKs Population which Produce 8.1% of the UKs Economy only get 4.9% of the Budget isnt it ?
The Reason for that is Pretty Simple.
Alot of the Taxes Produced in Scotland.
Is not actually Set or Managed by Scotland. But by the UKs Government in Westminster.
This is especially True for the Bigger Companies which are Based in London or other UK Cities and get Taxed in these Areas while their actual Production etc is in Scotland.
These Taxes are counted towards the UKs Taxes and not as Scotlands Revenue.
They are the Share of Taxes which are also Spend on Military and other UK Controlled things.
You do understand that you're utterly wrong, right? GERS factors (or, at least, tries to factor) all of what you're saying in.
Go read the methodology. Go read the document. Go look at the data. The person not listening here is you.
Minti2
Deadly, But very fluffy...
As the majority of the Scottish people
As of this moment your right Patrick, it may change and if it does be a sad day for me, most my family live in Scotland and yep theres one or two who want Independence but most dont, ive had many holidays and lived in Scotland for many years, and not once in those many years did i hear a comment about not liking the English.
Obviously there is some who do hate England, but ive never met them, and theres always the banter with sports rivalry, hell my wife is half Welsh/English so we have great times swapping teams when the other is losing
Hopefully Scotland will stay in the Union, but up to the people, all i know is i grew up in a friendly, cared and cherished Union of country's and certainly didn't feel repressed as some have made out, long live the UK
S
Yep, I`m proud to be part of a progressive outward thinking country, thanks.
Last edited:
Are you American?
Nope, Irish, other side of the pond.
Erm Mate you do Realize that I am not Talking about the Study but about the Budget itself right ?
See Mate.
I did Read that Study.
And yes it does Include the Taxes Collected by the UK inside Scotland. (It does in Fact not Include the Taxes of Companies which got Production Facilities in Scotland but do all their Financial Transactions etc in London which is strange because you can assume that Scotland will either add an Border Tax to these or Demand that they Pay the Taxes in Scotland as their actual Facilities are in Scotland. But well different Story.)
Thing is. It also Includes Scotlands Shares on UK Framework and Military.
Thats why Scotland Revenue with these Factors increases from 36 Billion to 53 Billion.
While Budget Increases from 39 Billion to 70 Billion.
But there you can already see something.
The Shares of the UK Controlled Budget are much Bigger. Than the Shares of the UK Controlled Taxes.
To Translate this.
Scotland Alone would Run a Deficit of around 3-4 Billion.
While Scotland in the UK Runs a Deficit of over 12 Billion.
Does that mean that Scotland after Declaring Independence would be coming Even with its Budget ?
Nope. Lets be Honest they wont. Just like all Other States on the Planet they will require to take on Debts.
Does this Improve Scotlands Situation.
Questionable. We simply dont know. Because thats the Thing.
If Scotland Leaves it needs to put up an Own Military etc.
The Question is if this will really be so incredible expensive to Generate the additional 8 Billion Deficit currently created by being in the UK.
Or if the Deficit Running by themselves will be Smaller.
I am repeating this simple thing.
8.1% of the GDP
8.6% of the Population.
4.9% of the Budget
Thats the Shares of the UK which Scotland currently is Running on.
Any Blind Dog can see that these Numbers dont Add Up.
And you can call that Propaganda if you Wish.
I am doing the same to your Interpretion.
Thing is. I am ACTUALLY Reading these Papers and not just the Headlines.
Thats why I notice right away when theres some Fishy Stuff Included.
Maybe you should actually start Reading that Stuff which your Pointing out ?
Maybe you.ll notice that some of it is not exactly as the Newspapers Headlines Suggest.
Old Dev was a stickler for protocol and did deliver condolences on the death of Hitler to the German embassy as per the protocol on the death of a head of state from a neutral country. This is common knowledge. He also assisted the allies more than a neutral country technically should have during WWII. Allied airmen shot down in Ireland were taken back across the border and back to their units immediately, German spies in Ireland were hunted down and jailed. The IRA were shut down, interned and a number executed. The Irish provided an air corridor through Irish air space (the Donegal Corridor) for allied marine patrol aircraft for the Atlantic. The Irish met office (Met Eireann) provided weather reports for the allies, giving the go/no go report for the D day landings from Blacksod in Mayo,
http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/the-irishman-who-gave-the-d-day-go-ahead-271114.html.
On top of that you had at least 50,000 Irish volunteer to fight in WWII including from my own family, from a neutral country. Ireland was never going to ally with Britain as the population would not have worn the idea in light of British genocide and atrocities in Ireland and the murdering and mayhem they had inflicted less than two decades previously. As for the Germans shot down in Ireland they were interned for the period of the war but very well looked after. They had their own chefs, were allowed to go into town on request for dances and the horse racing, many met Irish girls, married and stayed in Ireland.
Then at the end of the war in late 45 there was mass starvation in Germany, the Irish people organised food aid into Germany even before the red cross and others got involved and brought a lot of German children and orphans who were in danger of starvation to Ireland where they were looked after and some adopted.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/post...g-german-children-to-you-irelanders-1.1449041
So no I have no shame about WWII, Dev was a bit of a flute and I obviously don`t agree with what he did, but technically he was following protocol for the death of a foreign head of state. I`m more of a Mick Collins fan, he broke the British in Ireland and got us independence, a legend of a man. I`d much preferred that ye Brits had got Dev and that Mick Collins had survived, but such is history.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/the-irishman-who-gave-the-d-day-go-ahead-271114.html.
On top of that you had at least 50,000 Irish volunteer to fight in WWII including from my own family, from a neutral country. Ireland was never going to ally with Britain as the population would not have worn the idea in light of British genocide and atrocities in Ireland and the murdering and mayhem they had inflicted less than two decades previously. As for the Germans shot down in Ireland they were interned for the period of the war but very well looked after. They had their own chefs, were allowed to go into town on request for dances and the horse racing, many met Irish girls, married and stayed in Ireland.
Then at the end of the war in late 45 there was mass starvation in Germany, the Irish people organised food aid into Germany even before the red cross and others got involved and brought a lot of German children and orphans who were in danger of starvation to Ireland where they were looked after and some adopted.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/post...g-german-children-to-you-irelanders-1.1449041
So no I have no shame about WWII, Dev was a bit of a flute and I obviously don`t agree with what he did, but technically he was following protocol for the death of a foreign head of state. I`m more of a Mick Collins fan, he broke the British in Ireland and got us independence, a legend of a man. I`d much preferred that ye Brits had got Dev and that Mick Collins had survived, but such is history.
Last edited:
Well Cahoonas to Ireland for that one.
See I know that you Imperials dont care about anything outside the Empire.
But in some Places they say that once someone is dead you should keep your hatred to yourself and just politely give condolences instead of pestering people with past Grievances over someone who is Dead already.
Also as to you being Repped dont let it get to your Head.
I am getting Reps Daily as well.
Which is Logical because neither you nor us are alone in this Topic on one side.
So of course theres Reps on Both Sides.
If you notice that we got a few more People Posting tough. You might also Realize that our Rep Lists is not exactly Empty either.
I am not going to sort out which is on which Topic tough. I think I got a bit over 90 out of which most are from the Brexit, America, SNP etc Topics.
Sorry NO, I nor Ireland want a EU superstate. We want to work with our European neighbours for the common good. This isn`t a zero sum game, the British Empire is dead. Its 2017, snap out of it.
GERS is not a study. It's an official government statistic drawn up by the Scottish government. And, if you did indeed read and understand it, I wouldn't need to write the following:
It does in Fact not Include the Taxes of Companies which got Production Facilities in Scotland but do all their Financial Transactions etc in London which is strange because you can assume that Scotland will either add an Border Tax to these or Demand that they Pay the Taxes in Scotland as their actual Facilities are in Scotland. But well different Story: WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
GERS already says that Scottish revenue is £53bn. Where are you pulling £36bn from? GERS already says that expediture is £67bn.
Scottish expenditure is (roughly, with a nod to some approximatation required) 9.1% of total UK spend, not the 4.9% that you're putting forward.
Seriously, stop typing crap on a forum and go read the damn thing. You're clearly not doing that, despite the quote below.
Thing is. I am ACTUALLY Reading these Papers and not just the Headlines.
Thats why I notice right away when theres some Fishy Stuff Included.
Maybe you should actually start Reading that Stuff which your Pointing out ?
Maybe you.ll notice that some of it is not exactly as the Newspapers Headlines Suggest.
GERS report, 24 August 2016. GERS data. UK Statistics Authority report.
1.
Feel Free To Point out where they are Listed then.
Because I cant actually Find these.
I found the Income Tax of the Workers in the Companies.
I also Found the Taxes on the Production Facilities themselves and on Exports.
Interestingly the Profit Taxes on the Owners aint in there.
Strange Strange.
But your Free to Point it out to me.
2.
36 Billion is the Pure Scottish Collected Revenue. Meaning the Income Taxes etc which are actually Collected by Scotland. Thus not Including for example VATs which is set by the UK.
You can Find it Published by the Scottish Government.
By the way. GERS is Supervised by the UKs Institutes. Its not Independent.
Its by the way for a reason also listing the "Uk Government" as an Share Part.
"Total expenditure for the benefit of Scotland by the Scottish Government, UK Government, and all other parts of the public sector"
3.
Nice of you tough that you at least Mention alongside that the Authority Signing this is the London Based Statistics Authority Report.
See Mate.
Once more.
I am not actually Challenging the Statistics.
I am Challenging YOUR Interpretion.
Because these Statistics dont actually say what your Saying they do.
The Statistics are giving the Shares for Scotland as it Stands under the UK.
They aint what Scotland got when they are Independent.
Well I'm pretty sure insults are sure way to make sure this thread goes the same way as the Brexit thread.
What the heck is a superstate anyway? Is this some nationalist fear about the UN taking their identity away and making everybody speak Esperanto, only updated to have the EU as the bogeyman?
- - - Updated - - -
Who are you referring to? Fyrd Judge I guess.
GERS data. Table 1.1. Corporation tax (excl. North Sea): £3.1bn.
GERS data. Table 1.1. VAT: £11.2bn.
GERS is supervised, assembled and published by the Scottish government. It's methodology (the principle of which you highlight with the last part of the bit I quoted) is approved according to internationally recognised standards and endorsed by the UK statistics authority (and has to be done that way because the UK government doesn't allocate central spending in such a way that allows it to be broken down by region/union country).
The authority signing this is the Scottish government. The methodology is approved by the UK statistics authority and implemented by an employee of the Scottish government. Read the methodology.
That's exactly the point.
A key part of the discussion in the build-up to any referendum vote is going to be the economy. There's only two options in this context a) Either the Scottish government is publishing good material, in which case it will need to change the profile of public spending/receipts considerably in order to reduce that spending deficit and identify a strategy for growth going forward or b) The Scottish government is publishing nonsense, has no idea how much money it will collect or spend and has been utterly inept over the last decade of government.
You seem to be saying that Scotland can just do without the stuff that is currently paid for by Westminster budgets, which is nonsense. We're talking about things like transport, agriculture, social security. The profile of it will change, sure (after all, that's the point of independence). But the discussion is how that might change and what the implications will be.
Just regarding an Independent Scotland, is anyone seriously saying that Scotland could not be as successful as the multitude of European countries of comparable size. Are the Scots particularly stupid or genetically predisposed to be incapable of self determination. Has anyone heard of the Scottish enlightenment?
The whole argument is totally ridiculous and beyond parody, and to listen to the BBC et al is fairly pitiful.
The whole argument is totally ridiculous and beyond parody, and to listen to the BBC et al is fairly pitiful.