Perhaps the free nations of Europe could come to some arrangment? Call themselves the 'Union of Europe' or something?
General / Off-Topic The future of Britains Game industry
- Thread starter starman
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Perhaps the free nations of Europe could come to some arrangment? Call themselves the 'Union of Europe' or something?
Yup, this.
All hysterical articles on this feature the same study from Ukie.
"Shortage of skills" my bloody backside. Did you mean: shortage of available labour that will work for much less than their skillset deserves?
Funnily enough, game developers have a somewhat rare skill set. Casting your net EU wide can be much more effective than just looking for people in a single country.
Remedy, for example, employs a lot of people who aren't Finnish. I haven't checked, but I'm sure Supercell does as well.
Of course it would be more effective, but that's a given when you're being...let's say conservative...with what you're offering.
Plenty of game devs out there, or those with a competent overview of the languages/engines required, but those that have the rare and unique skill sets that are sought after are not going to find themselves starving as a result of this.
Those that will miss out were likely applying for the kind of dev position where the employer knows they will have multiple applicants with the specified prerequisites, and can set a lower standard of salary as there will always be someone capable of taking the role.
The ones who will starve are British companies who will have an important source of talent denied to them. British game designers might actually leave as bigger projects are made elsewhere, further adding to the problem.
A £4-£5 billion industry potentially severely damaged by the need to pander to xenophobia, along with the taxes said industry supplies. There is absolutely nothing positive about this for Britain.
And if the vote had been to stay, we'd have an equal bombardment of paranoia and doomsaying from "the other" side. Not that I was in favour of leaving; I was personally "in favour" of locking just about every MP up until ready to behave like grown adults.
I would be surprised if any consequential amount of "talent" was denied to game developers. As someone that's been quite integrated with the IT/development etc. side of things, I've never ever seen a shortage of capable applicants. It's only getting worse the other direction outside of development, because at least the dev sector cannot be automated. With everything being managed/administered centrally these days the notion that there will always be IT work because computers won't go out of fashion is increasingly out of touch.
Nay. We have two years and a mountain of negotiations to make. All of this will be dealt with under the same fearmongering, paranoia, puerile insults, false promises and general lack of actual information that was present from the moment Brexit was considered. People are gonna lose their hair pretty fast if they listen to it all.
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This made me think of something. It's not just the fact that coming over to the UK will become more difficult, but also less desirable.
I know a lot of people in the industry, both in small indie studios and in triple A production houses like Remedy. In general the creative types who gravitate to the scene are liberal, tolerant types, with a high proportional representation of LGBTQ or just lovable bohemian oddballs. If the UK is becoming more insular and conservative, a lot of that creative talent may prefer to work somewhere else (and I mean UK developers moving abroad as well, not just people not coming over there).
That would be sad to see :/
No, the continental european youth will not be prevented from playing British video games. It would be a madness of Brussels against the disenchanted of the young people, by the unemployment of mass and the austerity of the EU. And in her speech, Theresa May indicated that the UK will remain open to the immigration of the talents to the whole world
I doubt this would happen anyways.
Generally Publishers etc have Local Branches in each Sector which is Licensing Games for Selling.
So Games are often Produced Locally anyways. Thus rarely incurring Taxes.
Especially nowdays when the Bulge of Video Games is Sold as Download anyways and thus does not need to pass Border Taxes but is simply Sold inside the Country where its Played then.
What might happen tough is that some of the smaller Game Companies will increase the Prices for Physical Copies as they need to get it over the Broders.
Its an fairly Neglectable part tough as smaller Companies nowdays tend to go Download Only anyways.
I work with a LOT of Indian outsourcing within the software sector, they're not from the EU and we do just fine, nothing will change other than needing to do a bit of paper work where there was none before.
Good game developers / designers work internationally, country borders have little to no impact on them if they're desired staff, if they're wanted they get hired regardless.
But you gotta have your doom and gloom headlines right
Thats not 100% true.
It might be the case for your Company.
But for my Company for example the Majority of Computer and Software Stuff is actually around the EU.
And even Teleworkers. Which Work from their own Country for you will be more Expensive. Because you still need to Pay them. And this Payment will be Taxed.
If that hurts the Company or not will be decided by the States.
Because the Worker will be Taxed for his Income anyways in his Home State.
The Question is if the State where the Company Sits will Accept that he does not get any Taxes from this.
If for example. An Game Company hires an Romanian Programmer which then works from Home.
He will be paying Income Tax in Romania.
Meaning that the UK will be going out Empty.
But we might actually end up with the UK wanting a Share of that and thus demanding that the Company also Pays Taxes for this Worker in the UK.
Meaning the Worker will cost more to the Company than before.
But well thats Future Music.
Right now the majority is still working Locally.
And especially Bigger Companies Hire alot of Staff abroad.
Meaning they will run shortage now.
Sure India is one of the Big Players here.
So unlike with the Single Market in this case the UK is not cutting its Pool by 80% but only by around 30% as the EU is not that big of an Programmer Source in the World
Erm thats a Myth actually.
You might Laugh at that.
But for a Company. Hiring a Skilled Worker with the required and in that Country accepted Degrees is much Cheaper if its done Locally. Than if they have to get someone from Abroad.
The reason for that is. That Skilled Labour is fairly Scarce. And the Skills required are often demanding an Certificate.
So with the exception of some Shady Businesses which try all tricks to hire People Cheap and often treat em like dirt housing them as cheap as possible and keeping their Immigration Papers and such Jokes so they cant go to the State for help.
Usually the Wages of Foreign Workers are actually not very Different from what the Local People get with that Skillset.
The reason for that is Incredible Simple.
Availability and Demand.
The Turkish Toilet Cleaner which Immigrated with no Skills and thus is but another of 3 Million Candidates for that Job. Is in Fact working for much less than the Local Populace.
Because well. He is just another guy available in masses. If he does not want to work for Minimal Salary the next guy in line is waiting to work for this Price eagerly.
But the Skilled Indian Programmer which the Company was looking for and had maybe 3 Candidates in the UK which did on top not Satisfy their Expectations. Will get the same as your Local Programmers get if they Fill that Job.
Because these are not available in masses and thus can actually Demand alot of Money.
Atop of that they will likely demand some Compensation for Moving there and some Help with getting Formalities done. Meaning they effectively Cost more than the Local Worker.
Thats also why these Workers are often Contractually Bound to one Company.
Because that Company makes an Investment to get them Over. And then wants Contractual Security that this Worker then actually works for them for a Set Period of several Years until his Hiring has Paid off.
In this case it can happen that this Programmer will get less Salary in that time until the Costs the Company took on to get him Immigrated are Paid Off. After which he can demand a Pay Raise or go to a Different Company.
So dont mistake these here.
Unskilled Immigration does Reduce Salaries. Because they are increasing an Pool which is already Bigger than the Available Jobs.
But for Workplaces which suffer from having too little Recruits anyways. This is not the Case
I meant that a person could make telework at home in its country for the foreign company during the time required for the administrative formalities to move in its new country of residence
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Bit difficult to.give a series of lectures and talks teleworking.... Sure online collaboration is a thing, but sometimes there are jobs where you actually need ti be "onsite".
Yes often punctually for certain jobs in the computing as the developers for example. It could be a temporary solution before being authorized to live in a foreign country
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Games are often subject to tight deadlines and tough schedules.
Denying free movement of people is just one industry among many that will have very negative consequences. To deny this is not a credible suggestion.
It just depends how you organise the border though?
Any 'exporting industry', that imports people to develop income generating exports, is bound to be front of the line when it comes to fast track in passporting.
The other question, is there no programming talent (or games company investment) in Japan/Korea too?
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A games programme (or any other large scale software development programme) will span over months and years, if you need a skill set that can't be found locally, you'll have arranged it ahead of the work schedule and have organised any requirements for this upfront, this is done a lot right now across closed borders, especially between North America, Europe and India.
Tight deadlines for deliverables yes but not on staffing as the programmes of work span a large timeframe and have a lot of planning around them
And as winterwalker points out, there are also fast track border controls for highly skilled areas too, put in place to enable these industries to prosper. This wouldn't stop because of Brexit...
I think you guys are doom and glooming again lol
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You confuse the free movement of people with the control of the movement of people. To Control the borders and to choose a selective immigration in relation to the needs of its country, allows a selective free circulation. I am speaking here of course of people who want to live in a country, not the tourists who come to visit during their holidays (All tourists can come). A total free movement of people is a dangerous scourge to the unity of a country. Its homogeneity and its coherence
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There is. But thats also the reason why alot of the Japanese and Korean Stuff never even reaches the European and American Markets. (Which is a Shame by the way)
Their Industry in that Field is fairly Isolated and with the exception of a few high caliber titles rarely exports anything out of their own Area.
And the Stuff which is Exported is usually not actually Exported. But is instead Licensed, Adjusted by European or American Programmers and then Published in Europe and USA by an Company which is based over here.
Lately it has opened up a little bit. But its still far from the levels you can get in the EU or in the UK where these Companies have Access to Pools of Programmers from all around.
Take Kantai Collection or other Games in that area as Example.
Its an real big thing in Japan and also outside of Japan.
But unless you Play it in Japanese or use an Plugin which translates it without having a License to it. You wont be able to Play it from the West.
Even Tales Games which is an very well known Series even in the West. Often takes over a Year before the Game is sold to an Western Company and is Adjusted for the Western Market.
So the Barriers are not exactly hard to see.
Imagine if due to the requirement for Licensing Contracts and Local Publishers. Games like Elite Dangerous would be released in Europe nearly a Year later than in the UK.
Gladly as most European Speak English. Its far less Extreme in the case of the UK. As they might not release an Local Version they can still just sell the English version Online.
But even for the Gaming Industry in the UK the arising Barriers will hinder them. And the lack of skilled Personnel will also pose a Problem.
As I said before.
The Gaming Industry is among the less affected by that. As the Internet is buffering alot of the Barriers out.
But its not entirely Unaffected either
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Which by the way entirely renders the idea of this keeping Terrorists out entirely useless.
Because a Terrorist who only comes to Blow himself up does not really need to Immigrate but can just come as an Wealthy Tourist *gg*
Unfortunately for you. This is not Free Movement.
Even in East Germany during Soviet Rule. "Selective" Circulation of People happened.
But if your telling me that the DDR had Free movement I am declaring you insane right here.
Interesting. I love Japan by the way .. worked there, four years (and visited Seoul too). Yo Ro Shi Ku ne.
Presumably (I could be wrong of course) games use the (international languages) of C++ computer code?
Player licenses and UI languages are different agreed (ED in Japanese??) but cross-pollination between developers, and artists, could be +1
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no Patrick, you're the one confused.
The EU "freedom.of movement" only means that, for EU citizens, there is a reduction in the administrative barriers to living and working in other countries.
Are the UK immigrants living in Spain who don't learn the language, live in groups and aren't even the same religion as the local Spanish a "dangerous scourge" to the unity of Spain?
Are the Eastern European builders, cleaners, accountants, photographers etc threatening the UK?
Or are you, as I suspect, actually talking about muslim and black migrants from the middle east and Africa?
You must be aware that those immigrants are nothing to do with "freedom.of movement"?