2.3 Mission Stacking Nerfs

Taluss

Taluss
Hi CMDRs!

I have heard that come 2.3 Mission stacking will limited to 3 missions of the same type rather than the current 20. I have also heard payout are getting a buff to somewhat compensate. Is anyone on the beta have any idea how much the credit buff is? Also have I understood the situation correctly?

Thanks!
 

Thetele

T
I don't have numbers as i didn't look too much to missions in the beta, but it felt that the income level of regular players who don't use so called "exploits" will drop in 2.3, while those who use exploits to get money will just move to the next way. But that is what happens if you don't fix the actual issue causing problems and try to do as less work as you can. These stacking exploits have been a thing for more than last 2.5 years and now they address it with this "fix". Only if they had spend that time to fix the issue and not move it around.

I would stock up now when you can, everyone else seem to do so. I was wondering were everyone were until i went to one farming system and i found large % of players online that time, always 5-15 people in instance making money, ranks, materials before 2.3 drops.

But don't worry couple days (worst chase couple weeks) after 2.3 drops we will have new way to make even more money even faster. This has happened every time they nerf one way to make money.
 

Manticore

Manticore
I've been making stacks of credits in Colonia waiting for 2.3 to drop.

I really don't mind another change to mission mechanics because I'm planning to get back into exploring again after having a good look at 2.3 when it goes live.

What I'm not looking forward to is the amount of whinging that will occur on these forums with the change to any mechanics, missions or otherwise, post 2.3.

As stated above stacking has been around for just about ever............ a change is as good as a holiday (in Colonia).
 
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Jmanis

Jmanis
Taluss said:
Hi CMDRs!

I have heard that come 2.3 Mission stacking will limited to 3 missions of the same type rather than the current 20. I have also heard payout are getting a buff to somewhat compensate. Is anyone on the beta have any idea how much the credit buff is? Also have I understood the situation correctly?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It's particular types of missions getting stacknerfed, that is the ones which get abused the most i.e massacre and scanning missions. Other mission types seem unaffected, and you can still have up to 20 missions, just not 20 massacre missions.
 

sqzbox1

S
I have to admit this is one of my pet dislikes about the way FD are handling this issue. So-called "stacking" should be part of the game. If you are a courier how do you operate (for example)? You grab a bunch of missions that you think you can fit inside the required timeframe, construct a route, and get out there and do them - one after the other. That's reality. That's the way it worked in all previous Elite games. Why should they limit the number of missions you can take? This makes no sense. Would a courier take one job, go do that, then return to base for another? Nonsense!

The first limiting factor should be time. This idea of allowing 24 hours for every mission is just nuts. The old games had lots of missions with varying timeframe requirements and payments and distances and so on and it was a skill to put together a route and accept as many missions as you think you could achieve. What's wrong with that? And sometimes you took more than you could do because you miscalculated the distances or some such (think Hutton for example). So what? Part of the skill needed and you learned and got better and could then achieve more.

The other problem is one kill fulfilling the requirements of all the missions you have. That is crazy and smacks of poor design by the missions coders. Sorry but that's what I think. Poor design and poor implementation. If one kill fulfilled one of the missions only - doesn't matter which - then all the stacking issues go away.

You should be able to take as many missions as you want. If the timeframe requirements, location, and kills and all the other parameters were properly designed then stacking would not be a problem. The whole thing smacks of laziness and poorly thought out construction, not to mention poor coding design.

As you can tell I feel quite strongly about this. I am truly disappointed by the execution of the mission system. And I am a self-confessed fanboi so you can imagine the depths of my despair over this!
 

RamirezKurita

R
sqzbox1 said:
I have to admit this is one of my pet dislikes about the way FD are handling this issue. So-called "stacking" should be part of the game. If you are a courier how do you operate (for example)? You grab a bunch of missions that you think you can fit inside the required timeframe, construct a route, and get out there and do them - one after the other. That's reality. That's the way it worked in all previous Elite games. Why should they limit the number of missions you can take? This makes no sense. Would a courier take one job, go do that, then return to base for another? Nonsense!

The first limiting factor should be time. This idea of allowing 24 hours for every mission is just nuts. The old games had lots of missions with varying timeframe requirements and payments and distances and so on and it was a skill to put together a route and accept as many missions as you think you could achieve. What's wrong with that? And sometimes you took more than you could do because you miscalculated the distances or some such (think Hutton for example). So what? Part of the skill needed and you learned and got better and could then achieve more.

The other problem is one kill fulfilling the requirements of all the missions you have. That is crazy and smacks of poor design by the missions coders. Sorry but that's what I think. Poor design and poor implementation. If one kill fulfilled one of the missions only - doesn't matter which - then all the stacking issues go away.

You should be able to take as many missions as you want. If the timeframe requirements, location, and kills and all the other parameters were properly designed then stacking would not be a problem. The whole thing smacks of laziness and poorly thought out construction, not to mention poor coding design.

As you can tell I feel quite strongly about this. I am truly disappointed by the execution of the mission system. And I am a self-confessed fanboi so you can imagine the depths of my despair over this!
Click to expand...

The stacking limitation isn't there to prevent players from taking on multiple missions and juggling their time between them, it's that some actions can contribute to the completion of multiple missions. Nobody cares if you take on half a dozen hauling missions to the same location, as you still need to actually have the cargo space to hold all the wares to be delivered; nobody cares if you take on a dozen mining missions, as you still need to actually mine all the stuff they ask for; this is completely different to a massacre mission where each mission clocks up independently.

While it is true that having a smarter system in place to stop certain events from contributing to the completion of multiple missions would be an ideal solution, the act of limiting it to 3 provides a quick fix and to limit the damage to the in-game economy caused by these missions rather than us having to put up with a broken system until they finally get around to fixing missions properly.
 

Zeeman

Zeeman
Actually, I have no issues with mission stacking, I think it's more of an oversight of the devs that each missions doesn't have a unique target, rather than a single target that seems to fulfil mission requirements globally.

Mission stacking makes sense - I mean, it often takes more time to get to the mission objective than to carry out the mission. why not go to 10 or 20 points on the same planets and do it all? Parcel deliveries and mail works this way, as do most businesses. It just makes sense...

Z...
 

Schlack

S
You have to remember its not just the credit effect, such stacking is a BGS breaker. Not an issue for many, but it is an issue for lots of us. Swarms of mindless hordes chasing credits can undo hundreds of man hours of BGS work in days.
 

ForeverN00b

ForeverN00b
Schlack said:
You have to remember its not just the credit effect, such stacking is a BGS breaker. Not an issue for many, but it is an issue for lots of us. Swarms of mindless hordes chasing credits can undo hundreds of man hours of BGS work in days.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to manipulate the BGS in Quince or Fehu? Good luck with that.

Mission stacking isn't as bad as one ton selling for BGS purposes. Any time Fdev want to fix the one ton selling BGS exploit that would be great.
 

krylite

krylite
It's been far too long without something done about the stacking of massacre, skimmer and scan missions as well as the farce of suiciding a sidewinder several times a day to make 500 mil in one day enabling Anaconda'n'day. It's quite telling that most of the complaints about this paritcular fix is that it doesn't address the real intrinsic problem of these missions not differentiating targets or failure of persistence track of same missions granted repeatedly or through mode switching while not refuting this fix's current effectiveness as a sudden chopping block with many scampering about milking the last of its particulars, which likely means everyone knows it's an exploit that needs addressing and I for one am glad something was done now rather than nothing at all. It's good with this change the players who were dependent on this are forced to take missions more inline with the way the game was meant to be played as this exploit sure wasn't.

About complaining that new changes will bring about new exploits, well Season 2-horizons enabled this skimmer&scan exploit so it's fitting that as season 2 winds down, this fix is applied. Season 3 will roll about and if any similarly farcical exploits emerge, future season 3.3 or so updates would presumably fix it as well. All within it's own season timeframe.

Perhaps FDev will overhaul the mission system in the future and implement a root intrinsic change that allows factions to recognize when they are giving identical target missions to the same player rather than the current fix. It would make the most sense that each particular faction in a system give only one particular target massacre/skimmer/scan mission to an individual player at any time so in a system with 7 factions, it would be reasonable to have 7 missions of those type at the same target as long as they were from 7 different factions.
 
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CMDR _BigJay_

C
RamirezKurita said:
Nobody cares if you take on half a dozen hauling missions to the same location, as you still need to actually have the cargo space to hold all the wares to be delivered
Click to expand...

Well... not really. The same vocal bunch who have a problem with people doing massacre missions and scan missions also were very vocal about people making "too much" money doing long haul missions out of Sothis. So much so that they got those payouts nerfed when 2.2 hit in October.
 

Comrade Napoleon

Comrade Napoleon
I think FD showed their hand a long time ago. Exploits whether this one or that one have been rampant throughout 2,9 years. Nothing happens to close them . and only one publicized case of half heartedly punishment. That are the facts Cmdr's...
And still today we have countless threads of people leaving open, because they find the playing field uneven, no bloody wonder they do.. Being victim of some 5 day Noob in a decked 'Conda is no fun for another Noob in a T6. The se 'Conda Noobs are distinguishable, game time and rank. They now have amassed enourmous wealth and are bored, what to do? Grief!
Cmdr's with combat experience and skill pick 'em of by the dozen, but it does not really count, its advanced seal clubbing.
It takes a lot of moral resolve to continue doing your trading, exploring, mining and bounty hunting in the way the game was intended, instead of falling to the lures of exorbitant gains here and now.
I still play (if I could connect to the game) in the old fashioned belief, that PLAYING is the reason for playing. I am aware that wealth gives you options, but dont believe in anything rainbow like...
Cheers Cmdr's
 

kmwmtd

K
sqzbox1 said:
I have to admit this is one of my pet dislikes about the way FD are handling this issue. So-called "stacking" should be part of the game. If you are a courier how do you operate (for example)? You grab a bunch of missions that you think you can fit inside the required timeframe, construct a route, and get out there and do them - one after the other. That's reality. That's the way it worked in all previous Elite games. Why should they limit the number of missions you can take? This makes no sense. Would a courier take one job, go do that, then return to base for another? Nonsense!

The first limiting factor should be time. This idea of allowing 24 hours for every mission is just nuts. The old games had lots of missions with varying timeframe requirements and payments and distances and so on and it was a skill to put together a route and accept as many missions as you think you could achieve. What's wrong with that? And sometimes you took more than you could do because you miscalculated the distances or some such (think Hutton for example). So what? Part of the skill needed and you learned and got better and could then achieve more.

The other problem is one kill fulfilling the requirements of all the missions you have. That is crazy and smacks of poor design by the missions coders. Sorry but that's what I think. Poor design and poor implementation. If one kill fulfilled one of the missions only - doesn't matter which - then all the stacking issues go away.

You should be able to take as many missions as you want. If the timeframe requirements, location, and kills and all the other parameters were properly designed then stacking would not be a problem. The whole thing smacks of laziness and poorly thought out construction, not to mention poor coding design.

As you can tell I feel quite strongly about this. I am truly disappointed by the execution of the mission system. And I am a self-confessed fanboi so you can imagine the depths of my despair over this!
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Stacking in and of itself is not the problem - if someone wants to take 20 courier missions because they are all between the same 2 systems, then that's fine. The problem is multiple missions completed by the same single trigger - if someone stacks 5 missions each requiring 10 kills, they should have to make 50 kills, not 10 to complete them all.

Mode stacking shouldn't be a thing - if you take missions in Open, they should be completed in Open, and similarly for Solo. If it is too complicated for ED to keep track of 2 separate lists of missions, one for Open and one for Solo, then simply add a flag to each mission indicating Open or Solo, and if you have any Open missions, you can't take on any Solo missions, and vice versa.

I also think that log stacking (logging off and on to get new missions offered) should be tweaked as well. New missions should be trickled in - say, every 2 minutes a new mission will appear to replace one that has been taken. This timer should be independent of log out/in - if you want new missions, you have to wait for them, and there is no mechanism to speed that up.

Allow many missions, but manage the types, availability and completion triggers better.
 
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Thetele

T
sqzbox1 said:
The other problem is one kill fulfilling the requirements of all the missions you have. That is crazy and smacks of poor design by the missions coders. Sorry but that's what I think. Poor design and poor implementation. If one kill fulfilled one of the missions only - doesn't matter which - then all the stacking issues go away.
Click to expand...

Its fun how they can't fix this but all cargo missions have specific cargo that is needed to fill it, assassination missions have specific target and you can't stack those kills to fill multiple assassination missions, same with piracy missions. Why they can't take system they use for those to be "unique" mission target to these massacre/scanning missions. Now they do the worst thing nerf something else and don't fix the actual problem. We will probably see this same problem cause other issues/stacking etc. in the future because they don't fix it.
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
Ziggy Stardust said:
Mission stacking probably got nerfed to avoid mission board refreshing to accumulate these missions.

It's the easy way out when persistent missionboards are unachievable.
Click to expand...

Persistent mission boards aren't unachievable though... FD have servers that handle various aspects of the game (BGS, etc.); they could design their mission server for persistence, and it would make much more sense to do so.

I agree that FD have taken the easy way out, which is quite disappointing.
 
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