Fastest way to make money in Large Ships?

[evanevery]

Making money is only one of the goal which can be applied in ED, I fully agree with that. What I'm trying to find out is the best (fastest) way to use a Large High-Capacity Ship (Cutter, Vette) as a money maker. I posted this in another thread, so I'll just re-phrase it here to frame my query:

I can easily make 10M and hour with my Python running missions in a fully allied system... 10M an hour - that's my benchmark...

I'm currently TRYING to find a way to make REAL money with my large ships. They close off so many options (outposts). Bulk trading (as a money making endeavor) is no where near as lucrative as running cargo missions. You have to really work to make 1-2M in a single bulk cargo drop with a 480T capacity Cutter. I can easily make 1-2M for a SINGLE 1-hop cargo mission in my Python in a system where I am allied. Even SELECTIVELY mining with a large ship only turns in 10-20M in 3-4 hours. In any case, I can easily make 10M an hour running cargo missions in my Python if I WANT to make some money. However, the reality could be that Large ships are simply not capable of making money as fast as Medium size ships... That would be unfortunate but I guess I'm OK with that.

What I'm working on now, is establishing Rep in a large-ship friendly system (and neighboring systems) to see if I can get and stack (no exploits) lucrative local cargo missions. It will be interesting to see if I can establish a personal "bubble of rep" so I can start loading up my Cutter with lucrative local cargo missions. Get her primed with good cargo missions and then just start working the 4-5 local systems. (There really is NO money in Bulk trading). Its going to take some work to get my rep established. In any case, it will be FUN to see if it works out...

I haven't played around with passenger missions yet. Is that the trick to turn a large barge into a money maker?

 

[Dbrn47]

10M an hour not good enough? I'd be happy with it. Maybe you can get more Bounty Hunting in a Compromised Nav Beacon or Hazardous RES. I've recently been back on running passenger missions in my Asp and Orca, earnings are pretty variable but I think I did 25M in an hour the other day, but I got lucky with a Luxury mission that paid 22M and it wasn't long range, so those aren't typical.

If you already have a Cutter, what are you needing more than 10M an hour for? Anyhow, Bounty Grinding has always been my personal biggest earner. Mission stack grinding does more I think, but it's probably the most boring way to play the game and people will call you a cheater.

 

[evanevery]

10M an hour not good enough? I'd be happy with it. Maybe you can get more Bounty Hunting in a Compromised Nav Beacon or Hazardous RES. I've recently been back on running passenger missions in my Asp and Orca, earnings are pretty variable but I think I did 25M in an hour the other day, but I got lucky with a Luxury mission that paid 22M and it wasn't long range, so those aren't typical.

If you already have a Cutter, what are you needing more than 10M an hour for?

I didn't say 10M an hour "wasn't good enough"... I merely asked what the best way was to make money with a Large Ship. What I'm trying to determine is if the Large ships have any money making advantage of their Medium sized brethren and how to best apply that. I'm trying to learn from other peoples experiences...

Its not about "what do I need more money for?" Maybe I want TWO Cutters... Maybe I want ALL the ships in the game... However, that is irrelevant WRT the question at hand...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

You can't. Or rather, They don't want you to. Any means of making "real" money will be nerfed. Any discussion of making "real" money will be forwarded to the Department of Nerfing.

They want us poor. They want us to have to struggle just to be able to afford the rebuy of a Sidewinder.

They call it "progression", but there is no progression - it doesn't matter if you're a crap pilot in a sidewinder or a crap pilot in a cutter, you're still a crap pilot, and that only changes with time.
(Not a personal "you/you're", but a collective "you/you're").

There is no way to buy skill, or even fake skill. You either have it, or you learn it. Or you rebuy a whole lot, and that's all there is to it.

I'm all in favor of derailing the nerf train, because we really don't need any more nerfs.

What we need is Content. We have all the potatoes, but we need the meat.
(Sorry veggie-munchers, you'll just have to live with the metaphor).

 

[Dbrn47]

I didn't say 10M an hour "wasn't good enough"... I merely asked what the best way was to make money with a Large Ship. What I'm trying to determine is if the Large ships have any money making advantage of their Medium sized brethren and how to best apply that. I'm trying to learn from other peoples experiences...

Its not about "what do I need more money for?" Maybe I want TWO Cutters... Maybe I want ALL the ships in the game... However, that is irrelevant WRT the question at hand...

They have an advantage in combat, which is why I sort of recommended bounty grinding. They can probably do the '1 billion in a week' trick the best too.

 

[evanevery]

OK - nice rant - but that doesn't begin to answer the question...

It doesn't appear to me that "piloting skill" is related to any of the paths for maximizing earning potential. Correct me if I am wrong...

 

[Don Alvarez]

Big ships bring the hurt. I think the best return still comes with combat missions in system you are well repped in. And it makes sense: highest risk, highest reward. Find yourself a lucrative war going on.

 

[evanevery]

They have an advantage in combat, which is why I sort of recommended bounty grinding. They can probably do the '1 billion in a week' trick the best too.

Whats a good earning rate (M/Hr) for "Bounty Grinding"? Also, I assume your "Billion a week trick" is in reference to cherry picking long range passenger missions?

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Big ships bring the hurt. I think the best return still comes with combat missions in system you are well repped in. And it makes sense: highest risk, highest reward. Find yourself a lucrative war going on.

Really? Combat missions? Wouldn't have expected that... At least not based on the bounties I have been seeing on NPC kills (PVE)...

Can you do Combat Missions in a System without screwing up your rep with one of the minor factions? Usually I am everybody's ally! (Hmm... "CMDR EverybodysAlly" has a nice ring to it...)

 

[Dbrn47]

Whats a good earning rate (M/Hr) for "Bounty Grinding"? Also, I assume your "Billion a week trick" is in reference to cherry picking long range passenger missions?

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Really? Combat missions? Wouldn't have expected that... At least not based on the bounties I have been seeing on NPC kills (PVE)...

Can you do Combat Missions in a System without screwing up your rep with one of the minor factions? Usually I am everybody's ally! (Hmm... "CMDR EverybodysAlly" has a nice ring to it...)

I haven't been bounty hunting in a while. I think back when I was doing it with the Arissa Duval bonuses, it was 20M-ish? I didn't yet have a big ship either. The Billion in a week thing involves stacking combat missions, Dr. Kaii has a youtube video about it. Combat missions can and will lower your faction rep with the faction you are targeting through these missions. It's usually easy to balance out by doing missions for that other faction as well.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Whats a good earning rate (M/Hr) for "Bounty Grinding"? Also, I assume your "Billion a week trick" is in reference to cherry picking long range passenger missions?

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Really? Combat missions? Wouldn't have expected that... At least not based on the bounties I have been seeing on NPC kills (PVE)...

Can you do Combat Missions in a System without screwing up your rep with one of the minor factions? Usually I am everybody's ally! (Hmm... "CMDR EverybodysAlly" has a nice ring to it...)

I haven't been bounty hunting in a while. I think back when I was doing it with the Arissa Duval bonuses, it was 20M-ish? I didn't yet have a big ship either. The Billion in a week thing involves stacking combat missions, Dr. Kaii has a youtube video about it. Combat missions can and will lower your faction rep with the faction you are targeting through these missions. It's usually easy to balance out by doing missions for that other faction as well.

Right. the hit is not that bad, but it's easily rectified as DBrn47 says or by doing some bounty hunting.

Case in point, last night I found about 5 missions for a faction in a nearby system ranging from 2 to 15M payout on killing 72 ships. In my engineered BattleConda it took me about an hour and a half, I pulled in 44M plus another 3 in bonds.

Mind you, this activity will be nerfed somewhat with 2.3, I believe you will only be able to stack up to 4 combat missions. Don;t know if they are messing with the payouts or not.

This is also not typical. Sometimes I don't even find combat missions, or at least not enough to make the effort worthwhile. But when I find a rich mission board like I did last night, I knock em out.

 

[fennster]

Right. the hit is not that bad, but it's easily rectified as DBrn47 says or by doing some bounty hunting.

Case in point, last night I found about 5 missions for a faction in a nearby system ranging from 2 to 15M payout on killing 72 ships. In my engineered BattleConda it took me about an hour and a half, I pulled in 44M plus another 3 in bonds.

Mind you, this activity will be nerfed somewhat with 2.3, I believe you will only be able to stack up to 4 combat missions. Don;t know if they are messing with the payouts or not.

This is also not typical. Sometimes I don't even find combat missions, or at least not enough to make the effort worthwhile. But when I find a rich mission board like I did last night, I knock em out.

You can stack 3 missions in 2.3 (Applies to Massacre and Planetary Scan missions.), supposedly buffing the payouts and super power rank gain, by how much IDK.

So not a billion a week tactic anymore.

 

[Don Alvarez]

You can stack 3 missions in 2.3 (Applies to Massacre and Skimmer missions.), supposedly buffing the payouts and super power rank gain, by how much IDK.

So not a billion a week tactic anymore.

Thanks for the correction.

So only 3 a week. I can work with that if they're buffing the payouts, I expect you can still do well if you find a good board.

 

[fennster]

Thanks for the correction.

So only 3 a week. I can work with that if they're buffing the payouts, I expect you can still do well if you find a good board.

The way I see it.... Say I want to do 1.5-2 hours in a CZ, I will take one large kill 96-108 ships mission and two smaller ones say 16-32 ships. Everytime I need to restock/repair I will also hand in completed missions and grab more within the restraints of the remaining ships needed for the original 108 ships. If when I'm nearing the end of the 108 I feel I want to go on I'll get another 56-72 mission and so on...

Absolutely no where near the current full on mode switching stack payouts currently, but got to be in the 20-30 million an hour region.

(BTW is that "3 a week" a typo?)

 

[evanevery]

Sounds like I need to try some combat missions. I've always avoided them so as not to screw up my rep with any of the local factions. Best not to test it out with my 45M rebuy Cutter though...

 

[CMDR Harada]

You're correct in your assessment that big ships don't always make big cash. I have a Cutter and Corvette, but make most of my credits running PAX missions in my AspX. A 42 LY jump range makes even 1k LY trips quick. I can regularly exceed 10 million an hour.

But, there are times.. Last week I made 17 million in an hour making deliveries to the CG in my Cutter ( 700 tons each run ). I can also hold 3 times what a Python does per trip, so stacking delivery missions pays well, even if they don't go to the same station, I still only have to un-dock once at the starting point. Regular trading is a bit trickier, but finding an outbreak system that also has good exports can be very profitable, if only for a few days. You need to break 3k per ton, and 3 trips an hour to exceed 10 mill an hour in a 700 ton Cutter. High local rep and a python will break that ( as you mentioned ). Even the famous Ceos/Sothis runs didn't make all that much. It took a good 45 minutes to get there in a big ship, plus a solid hour or two to mode shift on the boards to generate the best missions, then 45 minutes back, and then deliver it all ( hour or so ). I averaged 4 hours on a good run, and made 55 million. So... 15 million an hour of soul crushing grind. In bubble runs made as much or more. But, strangely, we didn't have the goons protesting in bubble, hi-rep, missions...Maybe because an FDL has a poor jump range and it was a hassle to go all the way out to Sothis to give people a hard time.. but I digress...

My Corvette is a big money pit. I make money, but nothing like the Cutter, or AspX. Hanging out at a Haz-RES or Comp-Nav-Beacon doesn't pay as much, even with a KWS. If you killed one ship per minute average ( line them up, scan them, close distance, then kill them.. takes time ), and got an average 150k per ship, thats only 9 million an hour. That doesn't count ammo, repairs, etc either. Sure, you get some ships over 300k, but the average is less. "Kill/Massacre" Mission stacking is the only way to make cash over of that. I'll leave out skimmer missions..

In short, You're dead on. Missions are where the money is. PAX missions in my AspX are my bread and butter ( or is that caviar and champagne ? ). I use the Cutter for CGs. And the Corvette for laughs, CGs, or Pilots Federation rank grinding.

 

[Ddraig]

Bounty hunting depends on the system and the influence.
In a system where your targets have a large influence, HREZ are filled with ships and they come fast again and again... in one hour you do millions.
But if you overstay and your faction gains the upper hand, RES zones go slow and 2 3 millions an hour will be the average.

At least that has been my experience.

 

[fennster]

Sounds like I need to try some combat missions. I've always avoided them so as not to screw up my rep with any of the local factions. Best not to test it out with my 45M rebuy Cutter though...

Combat missions do not affect your Rep negatively with local factions. Combat zones are a lawless zone, therefore fair game. You will only gain Rep with the faction for whom you hand combat bonds in for.

Bounty Hunting other factions wanted ships does however lower your rep with them.

 

[Dbrn47]

Sounds like I need to try some combat missions. I've always avoided them so as not to screw up my rep with any of the local factions. Best not to test it out with my 45M rebuy Cutter though...

Cutter is probably the safest ship to try it in. Tough shields to get through and can just run away if needed. If you remain on the right side of the law, you generally have zero risk in most ships as it is. Assassinations are probably going to be the more risky ones due to some being illegal and some having 3-4 vs 1 scenarios. If you are going to do CZ missions, just apply typical CZ rules, like waiting for the NPCs to engage each other before you pick a side and of course staying on the edge of the CZ instead of in the middle of it.

 

[Don Alvarez]

(BTW is that "3 a week" a typo?)

lol, more like a disconnect between brain and fingers. Don't ask me now to recall what I was thinking, so I'll just blame it on spellchecker.

 

[evanevery]

You're correct in your assessment that big ships don't always make big cash. I have a Cutter and Corvette, but make most of my credits running PAX missions in my AspX. A 42 LY jump range makes even 1k LY trips quick. I can regularly exceed 10 million an hour.

But, there are times.. Last week I made 17 million in an hour making deliveries to the CG in my Cutter ( 700 tons each run ). I can also hold 3 times what a Python does per trip, so stacking delivery missions pays well, even if they don't go to the same station, I still only have to un-dock once at the starting point. Regular trading is a bit trickier, but finding an outbreak system that also has good exports can be very profitable, if only for a few days. You need to break 3k per ton, and 3 trips an hour to exceed 10 mill an hour in a 700 ton Cutter. High local rep and a python will break that ( as you mentioned ). Even the famous Ceos/Sothis runs didn't make all that much. It took a good 45 minutes to get there in a big ship, plus a solid hour or two to mode shift on the boards to generate the best missions, then 45 minutes back, and then deliver it all ( hour or so ). I averaged 4 hours on a good run, and made 55 million. So... 15 million an hour of soul crushing grind. In bubble runs made as much or more. But, strangely, we didn't have the goons protesting in bubble, hi-rep, missions...Maybe because an FDL has a poor jump range and it was a hassle to go all the way out to Sothis to give people a hard time.. but I digress...

My Corvette is a big money pit. I make money, but nothing like the Cutter, or AspX. Hanging out at a Haz-RES or Comp-Nav-Beacon doesn't pay as much, even with a KWS. If you killed one ship per minute average ( line them up, scan them, close distance, then kill them.. takes time ), and got an average 150k per ship, thats only 9 million an hour. That doesn't count ammo, repairs, etc either. Sure, you get some ships over 300k, but the average is less. "Kill/Massacre" Mission stacking is the only way to make cash over of that. I'll leave out skimmer missions..

In short, You're dead on. Missions are where the money is. PAX missions in my AspX are my bread and butter ( or is that caviar and champagne ? ). I use the Cutter for CGs. And the Corvette for laughs, CGs, or Pilots Federation rank grinding.

Wow! Thank you for a very detailed and on-topic response!

I have my Cutter fully outfitted for self-defense so only 480 tons left for cargo. But, I've also eaten FDL's and Anacondas as required. ..and yes, it is my goto CG delivery vehicle. I made 18 Mil for four deliveries in one of the latest CG's but that's once per week at best...

My Vette is being outfitted for pure death delivery (inc twin fighters). Not sayin' I'm lookin for a fight but god help that poor NPC who tries to interdict me! (Yes - I'm gonna be the most feared player in all of PVE! Sigh...) ;-)

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Cutter is probably the safest ship to try it in. Tough shields to get through and can just run away if needed. If you remain on the right side of the law, you generally have zero risk in most ships as it is. Assassinations are probably going to be the more risky ones due to some being illegal and some having 3-4 vs 1 scenarios. If you are going to do CZ missions, just apply typical CZ rules, like waiting for the NPCs to engage each other before you pick a side and of course staying on the edge of the CZ instead of in the middle of it.

Hah, good recommendation! I'm afraid I'll have to get it sorted out in something else though. The "safest" ship to try it in (and figure out all the dynamics) is one you can easily afford to replace!