The PIRACY Thread - new ideas for changes needed to make it more viable as a Role
- Thread starter X-Terminator
- Start date
No chance of that, I believe it's been said often enough that the only difference between Open and the others will be that Open is open to anyone.
What piracy probably needs are goods to cost a lot more but the trading profit margins to stay the same, so higher reward, and possibly go with less information available at the time of interdiction (can't tell if there's a wing perhaps, only get to see the largest ship?), so higher risk. The first would probably need some tricky balancing to keep things viable for new starters to be able to trade though.
- Have you ever been Pirated by NPC and given Cargo and then let go on your way? -
Yes/No - I have been approached by NPC pirate(s) who said "all this can go away if you give xx tons of cargo" , but by choice I have yet to try it.
- Have you been Pirated by a Player and given Cargo and then let go on your way? -
Yes, several times back in the begining days - December 2014, but not so much recently.
- Have you tried Piracy without trying to kill the Ship and picked up Cargo? -
Yes. Mainly NPC's but on occasion other cmdrs.
On a side note, I have been known to "reverse pirate", low ranking cmdrs. Depending on their attitude. If they are cool about being interdicted and the whole situation, I have actually abandoned rare items that are already 160+LY out.
- What Cargo do you hope to find and what is it's value? -
Depends on location. Most of the time with NPC's I hope for LTD and/or Painite. Recently I have noticed some blackmarkets are paying above Galatic Average price for Painite.
- Have you tried Piracy in Multicrew? -
No - I am greedy. I want all the treasure for myself, plus I do not want to openly share my current "fishing hole" location and/or method used.
- If any of the above what Mode do you Pirate in: SOLO/GROUP/OPEN? -
OPEN and sometimes GROUP. ( I normaly only use SOLO for goofing around with the camera).
- Why did you try Piracy else would you like to? -
Why not? It can be fun.
- Can you suggest how to improve this Role to become even more viable? -
Make Hatchbreaker limpets that can penetrate shields more of a rarity. It actully took some skill to disable and keep the shields down without destroying the ship you were pirating.
I would like to see more NPC pirates, (with increased sklill level), and perhaps the return of "unsactioned outposts" and have some meaning.
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X-Terminator
Banned
I happen to think it can happen else by increasing gains in prices only for OPEN messes with actual costs when switching. Put these RARES only into OPEN existence without any possibility to carry them over by Mode Switching and we have the Solution. It's in the name: RARES.
FYI at present if a NPC Wing of say 4 are Pirates, 1 Interdicts you, only that 1 shows as ALONE if you Target Nearest Hostile, upon exiting by submission/completed then instantly you will ONLY see that 1 ALONE and not in a Wing. However, the other 3 will soon drop onto his Beacon. Just so you know, I tested this last night for a fact. So it does pay to basic scan Ships in SC to see if they are in Wings already as it will be too late until you get pulled and then find out.
I see no problems in the above Suggestions as analysis summary. You are all welcome to suggest your own but I'm looking at the data and ideas to combine all. Suggestion threads are to put forward 1 idea for FD to look over. Sending in this complete discussion is too much for them to sift through. The whole purpose is to make Piracy more viable which it can not be if there is no incentive for Traders to be pawns.
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I was thinking from the point of view of the pirate - make it harder to know whether they'll have easy pickings or a fight on their hands, if the target has an escort. Piracy would definitely need the rewards boosting to compensate for that though.
X-Terminator
Banned
This is a popular idea which is the way it used to work. The only issue with this is Piracy will take longer (Cops will arrive soon in Secured Systems) but most importantly, Player Defender will just assume you are a Ganker for firing at him. I just think there should also be no WANTED for using HB and therefore we could try to use a stealth tactic of Silent Running OR other low heat signature tricks to steal Cargo - we are NOT out there to kill but must be a threat all the same.
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OK can you tell us some situations you mean by this?
For me when I select targets I will already see if they are in a Wing. If they are, I simply judge if it's worth my hassle as I can not risk losing anything I already stole either. I see plenty Combat Ships in Wings. I already know that these carry no Cargo mostly but the odd lone combat Ship may have e.g. Military Plans - I just would not go after anything I can not handle. You can if you wish have Wings OR Multicrew if you need backup to Pirate.
One thing I do (as well as Manifest Scan obviously) is look at Sub-Systems and see if they have Point Defence. If they do I look elsewhere.
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Maybe change it to not being able to see if someone is in a wing in supercruise, all you get to see is the biggest ship in the wing. So you've got to make a decision - is it likely to be worth the risk? At present the risk is too low because you've got a lot of information with which to pick your targets. Piracy needs rich, risky targets. Make it get rich quick or die trying!
X-Terminator
Banned
I see what you're wanting...higher rewards for higher risk. Well Wing info is essential for all levels to decide on engagements. Only daft Players take on something they did not fully know the situations involved. I think there is already the level of say Corvette Pirate as you can have Multicrew with SLF to take on those Wings of 4 combat Ships which maybe escorting the main Ship with Military Plans onboard. They can also take 4 Collectors on each Class7 Collector Bay and similar for HBs. They can even decide if they wish to kill those escort Ships at the risk of cops showing up.
Ah the other thing that must change is Allow Collectors to drop you cargo whilst you're moving at any speed at all.
Ah the other thing that must change is Allow Collectors to drop you cargo whilst you're moving at any speed at all.
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At present, yes, because they have that choice. It's working out how to strike the right balance that's tricky. Too much information and no challenge, too little and too much of a risk to bother for potentially nothing.
X-Terminator
Banned
It's been suggested that HBs drop more. I have found this very random. Sometimes you get 2 or 3 drops then other times you get about 10 per HB! That's an unknown risk of how long this job is going to take before cops show up if in Secured Space (as most Player Traders now Route/Filter). If it gets any harder based on my expectations of engagement it will become only viable in Anarchy. No result for more viable. Having only LTD/RARES in OPEN brings in all those rewards to both Traders & Pirates.
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Have you ever been Pirated by NPC and given Cargo and then let go on your way? - I tried to release the cargo, they attached me anyway
Have you been Pirated by a Player and given Cargo and then let go on your way? - never happened
Have you tried Piracy without trying to kill the Ship and picked up Cargo? - yes
What Cargo do you hope to find and what is it's value? - any cargo, I do it for fun, not for profit
Have you tried Piracy in Multicrew? - no
If any of the above what Mode do you Pirate in: SOLO/GROUP/OPEN? - group/solo
Why did you try Piracy else would you like to? - n/a
Can you suggest how to improve this Role to become even more viable? - reusable limpets (with the hability to synthesize them); predefined chats messages to simulate a conversation with NPC, asking to release cargo before attach or some others behavior
Have you been Pirated by a Player and given Cargo and then let go on your way? - never happened
Have you tried Piracy without trying to kill the Ship and picked up Cargo? - yes
What Cargo do you hope to find and what is it's value? - any cargo, I do it for fun, not for profit
Have you tried Piracy in Multicrew? - no
If any of the above what Mode do you Pirate in: SOLO/GROUP/OPEN? - group/solo
Why did you try Piracy else would you like to? - n/a
Can you suggest how to improve this Role to become even more viable? - reusable limpets (with the hability to synthesize them); predefined chats messages to simulate a conversation with NPC, asking to release cargo before attach or some others behavior
X-Terminator
Banned
Interaction with NPC would be sure obvious to implement as they now also offer us similar deals. Either by recognising the context or via set binds and is handy against Players also.
We can at least use Stolen Limpets and I see plenty of these in all sorts of Ships all the time. Obviously any Miners use them. With time being the key to successful viability of Piracy I do not see why we should have Collectors so limited. Why would we want to use a Class7 Bay for holding 4 Limpets when it has a primary need for Cargo space?! They should all be Class1 to 4 and use the exact mix as HB, so at least even a Class1B would hold 2 Collectors. Even Miners are kicked down for this. IT'S DAFT!!!
I really would like though to disable Collectors to enable scooping them before jumps. (presently they just blow up)
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•Have you ever been Pirated by NPC and given Cargo and then let go on your way? - No - NPC Pirates are stupid
•Have you been Pirated by a Player and given Cargo and then let go on your way? - Yes - Was good RP fun
•Have you tried Piracy without trying to kill the Ship and picked up Cargo? - No
•What Cargo do you hope to find and what is it's value? - Never tried Piracy ---- Yet
•Have you tried Piracy in Multicrew? - No
•If any of the above what Mode do you Pirate in: SOLO/GROUP/OPEN? - N/A
•Why did you try Piracy else would you like to? - I would like to.... Looks like good RP fun to me
•Can you suggest how to improve this Role to become even more viable? - Hmmmmm
•Have you been Pirated by a Player and given Cargo and then let go on your way? - Yes - Was good RP fun
•Have you tried Piracy without trying to kill the Ship and picked up Cargo? - No
•What Cargo do you hope to find and what is it's value? - Never tried Piracy ---- Yet
•Have you tried Piracy in Multicrew? - No
•If any of the above what Mode do you Pirate in: SOLO/GROUP/OPEN? - N/A
•Why did you try Piracy else would you like to? - I would like to.... Looks like good RP fun to me
•Can you suggest how to improve this Role to become even more viable? - Hmmmmm
While im fully supporting a C&P system we also need added gameplay FOR criminals.
- Add NOTORIETY elite rating
- Notoriety is gained from Interdictions, Notoriety mission types and killing non-wanted targets
- Notoriety takes over Assassination, Theft and Smuggling missions
- Notoriety rating allows access to Black markets starting with Anarchy systems and High Security at Elite rating
- Notoriety ranks adds a 10% increase to black market sell prices for negotiating with fences.
- Black market now SELLS illegal goods at X2 market price
- Black markets in Anarchy are simply markets since everything is legal
- Notoriety affects the chance of an NPC surrendering to interdiction
Now a little more controversial stuff
- Suicide winder mechanic is removed
- Total bounties are added to insurance rebuy
- Notoriety rating is a multiplier to the TOTAL bounty of a character (up to X9 total bounties)
- Bounties on death that are unpaid are converted to DEBT and the character is no longer wanted - Players in DEBT pay 25% of their earnings on everything they can make money of (Selling ships, missions etc) during future gameplay until bounties are paid off.
Etc...
X-Terminator
Banned
Please be aware that actually in Anarchy there are still Prohibited Goods (often Toxic Waste, sometimes even Slaves, etc.) and these should then be the only items that appear in the Black Market there which is 75% value. Stuff just needs to be re-arranged. Anarchy may well be the playground for Pirates but they also must venture into Secured Space and is at a high risk. The NPC BH will even come after them if they jump back to Anarchy (this already happens for high bounties).
Currently, yes.
in true anarchy no goods would be illegal and simply be about the highest bidder.
And making illegal goods simple and darn cheap in anarchy creates an incentive to actually smuggle said goods into high security areas.
The mark up prices for illegal goods should also be multiplied by the security status of the system since the more something is forbidden the more it's usually worth for someone.
Anarchy: X0.5
Low Sec: X1.0
Med Sec: X2.0
High Sec: X3.0
So anything bought in anarchy is at 0.5 regular price and would fetch X3 market price in high security areas.
But there should also be incentive for traders to trade TO anarchy so regular goods would be more rare and worth a lot from High to Anarchy.
I understand the premise - although don't agree with the ratios you suggest...
Surely all these price bonuses should seemlessly be handled by the BGS? ie: The price you can sell stuff for in anarchy should should be higher, as obviously it's risky to supply/deliver it! Supply levels should take it into account to?
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X-Terminator
Banned
Hell yeah, this is good dynamics for risk/reward in many roles within Anarchy. Plus the change of Station behavior like no request to Dock but hover the right size pad to engage it. Gets us checking always.
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The problem with this no rebuy unless a ship shoots back is that drop rates for hatch breakers drop rates are a joke. To get enough to pay damage caused by interdiction, expenses, damage by cops, and make a profit with all that is not really possible with breakers. Pirates that have played long enough at it know this so we just demand what we want.. You comply or you risk losing all your cargo and ship. Your plan of no rebuy unless you fight back would kill piracy.
i think when caught you pirates should be offered a choice. die spectacularly and have to pay full cost of your ship to rebuy.... or you get a mission for a month to go take down the gankers who pick on starting newbies in the starter systems. for a whole month you give them a taste of their own medicine 