Make no mistake, I acknowledge that lots of you like the game as is. I'm not asking for the engine to be gutted, but minor changes would go a long way to improving it. I'm not asking for a 90 DPS turn rate in yaw - I'm asking for a bit more to make pitch/roll/aim/fire more sensible. An extra 2-5DPS would be plenty enough. It could be as simple as the sidewinder really isn't the ship for me!
Man, if you had had 1 more yaw DPS for every tine you wrote "Make no mistake" in this thread then the thread would have been over a long time ago!
Seriously now. Those kind of decent and modest compromises can always be discussed. But as you probably have realized by now, given the Elite series trajectory and the history of how ED came to be during kickstarter, it is highly unlikely FD may decide to revisit the fundamentals of the flight model, especially the nerfed Yaw concept and rotation rates in general.
I still maintain that almost every dogfight in the game that I've seen so far, degenerates into two ships pitching up continuously, following each other round in demented orbits in order to get a shot off. Breaking off from "the chase" is often a fatal mistake that lets an opponent in on your six.
I am not sure having a faster Yaw will help you here for a better and more fun dogfight experience honestly.
Having yaw DPS similar to pitch DPS would simply mean that, using your same words, "dogfights degenerate into two ships either pitching or yawings continuously, following each other round in demented orbits in order to get a shot off"
Having faster yaw rates would not help you at all in avoiding those situations. You ll simply have the choice between pitching or yawing in order to perform those most fun "demented orbits". You need in principle just a two dimension move in order to aim at any point of space around you. Weather you do it via roll + pitch or via yaw + pitch (or a combination) is pretty much irrelevant from the point of view of this potential "demented orbits".
The real value of a good space sim is not really in offering you an additional, but technically redundant, way (yaw) to get to aim to the same point of space, no. The real value of a good space sim is in allowing for balanced alternative dogfighting options other than "demented orbits", in the first place.
And that is where ED excels at, as those alternatives are built in by way of several aspects, among many others:
- True 6DoF, including namely strafes, that allow you to seek other positioning vectors wrt your opponent as real alternatives to "demented orbits".
- Flight Assist Off, which allows you the option to stop "demented orbits" by turning while maintaining your momentum if you so wish. This can allow slow turning ships to open a gap with faster turning ships with which to be able to bring weapons to bear. A round of death will get those slower turning ships destroyed. Flight assist off gives them an alternative choice to that scenario. "Make no mistake" though
, FAOFF requires skill (ref Isinona).
- Ship differentiation: Different ships will turn at different rates, will have different firepower and different hull/shield characteristics. All of which add to the depth and complexity of the above alternatives to the "demented orbits". Dogfights usually never start already in a "demented orbit". They star typically from afar, you may or may not see your opponent coming, but it is that level of early awareness that, combined with your ship differentiation, can make the difference between ending up in "demented orbits" or not.
- Slower turning rates overall and long (ish) time to kill, enabling the rock-paper-scissor philosophy in ship build/weaponry, energy management and damage states take full effect, and enabling for example actual escape/exit as a potentially viable estrategy aswell.
- Silent running gameplay
etc
But I have to question the Spitfires in space logic. Since when did a Spitfire operate effectively only in two axes? Any pilot worth his salt would exploit gravity, spins, and any other advantage you can get. In three dimensions. In ED, with no appreciable external forces on the ship, fights become very 2-dimensional, not helped by the 2-axis control scheme. That seems like an expensive price to pay just to get the "cinema look" of spitfires in space.
This kind of comment stems most likely from a lack of experience with ED... ED is probably one of the least 2 dimensional space sims out there. Seems to me you really need to get some more use and experience out of strafing and of Flight Assist Off.
In space 3 equal rotational speeds would probably make a lot of sense, and would be probably agreed as very realistic. Nerfing Yaw, g's discussion notwithsatnding, is widely accepted as a gameplay requirement in ED to make the game as fun as it is. It can be rationalized via the g's discussion and suggesting lateral thrusters may not be as big or pwerfull, but the fact is it is a gameplay compromise. Much like the fact we have capped top speeds etc.
As mentioned in multiple posts above FD has extensive experience with both models, and have settled for a nerfed yaw
and relatively slower rotation rates and acceleration rates overall compared to other current space sims, because they believe this model offers the most complex and rich opportunities for dogfight.
I mention specifically the turn rates because you seem to have mentioned that the Star Citizen model seems to cater better for your views (I am also a backer of both games), and turning rates is one of the aspects that differentiate the most both games dogfight models, among others.
One of the main reasons why FD settled for a nerfed yaw and slower acceleration and turn rates in general is that fast rotational rates of, say, under 2-3 seconds for a 180 in any axis (as in SC) allow for those ships to aim at any single point of space in that same short time. A dogfight system that allows for such quick turnaround to face anyone around you under 2 or 3 seconds, in any axis, is simply anihilating the maneuevering and piloting aspect of the game in favour of aiming and gunning skills.
Also, in a flight system where you can turn in any axis equally fast, and also accelerate/decelerate equally fast, maneuvering mistakes will never be punished harshly as you can just simply correct in under 2 or 3 seconds.
Not so in ED. In ED you really need to sweat your positioning vis a vis your opponent, and if you overshoot or get too short, you will be punished for it (assuming your opponent is of decent skill too!).
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