They have already laid out a method for protecting the cities.
One of the messages recovered from the Guardian Ruins was technology for city wide defense shield.
Can the Cobra engine handle detailed populated planets with cities?
- Thread starter BlackSpaceCowboy
- Start date
They have already laid out a method for protecting the cities.
One of the messages recovered from the Guardian Ruins was technology for city wide defense shield.
You are just as bad with being not clear with information... those in glass houses should not throw stones.
However, with my 980 Ti and VR the default settings are VR Ultra and I have not encountered an issue. I suspect they are in a similar boat - VR Ultra settings (which is the maximum in-game pre-set settings)
I should perhaps add I have my system running with power saving effectively turned off (Performance Mode) and have recently switched to Nvidia Fast synch mode with no issues to report (frame rate jumped up to 89-90Hz under nominal circumstances... not checked the planet side FPS yet but the in-game experience is unchanged). None of the freezes others have reported.
You do not have definitive and indisputable proof indicating what the root cause of your issues are... only observed/reported symptoms... Therefore, you should not rule out ANY possible cause for your issues. Please stop trying to blame the game engine on the basis of comparatively flimsy empirical data.
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Blackcompany
Banned
Its definitely a challenge. There have been many challenges already overcome, and many yet to follow. They may not overcome all. Some folks here just dont grasp that just because one would like something doesnt mean it is easy to do, or one is entitled to get it. In that sense spacegame communities often have the mental approach of toddlers.
Yes, because now wanting what we paid for - and were PROMISED - is us acting like entitled toddlers.
Nice bait.
Dont fall for it. The goal is to encite people to anger so they get into a personal battle and get the thread locked. Happens on every thread with negative posts about Elite.
Outsider isn't proof that video clip could actually be running at 10 fps and then edited/made to look like 30 or 60 FPS. There isn't even proof that those are real game play, they could be pre rendered videos and not actual game running on console/pc. Totally made up trailers weren't uncommon back when the outsider was a thing. Like there is trailers for games that don't exist at all as a game and trailer is 100% fake.
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Well frontier doesn't have technology or resources to develop technology to do procedural generated cities like many here dream. They will mask cities inside domes, clouds etc. and just give illusion of cities being there. A lot of people will be disappointed. I hope frontier go for some more simplistic way. Instead of wasting money to make procedural city generation system that will at the end be disappointing, i would like them to focus on adding stuff to do in elite. I already see elite as frontier used too much money and focused too much on the procedural generation system for planets and elite universe. They did that and then they needed to publish the game but they didn't have stuff to add/populated this world. If frontier had spend the resources and time to develop BGS instead of stellar forge we could have really revolutionary game. But instead they focused to create large, on paper "unique" systems/planets and not on what we do on them.
I hope they don't fall in this trap again with earth likes and cities. Rather cheat on those and spend the time to make npc dialogue/interaction system, much improved and deeper/complicated bgs system, more scenarios etc. Procedural generation technology is amazing but it doesn't create good games or world/map for game.
I would not be so sure about that, I do agree that we all have to keep our expectations in check but I think you are wrong with your conclusions about procedural generation overall. The underlying principles are not that complicated, and FD have proven they know how to manipulate their procedurally generated content with hand crafted alterations.
oh ye of little faith ... it will happen and then 'Boom' .. minds blown. And BTW FD have crated the galaxy! .. I'm sure a few cities won't be too much of a task
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That doesn't sound like an engine limitation, rather a hardware limitation.
You are awfully dismissive of everyone elses opinion and appear to have an incredibly high opinion of both yourself and your PC. It's a bit harsh to suggest no-one else has a clue, as if you're the ultimate authority on PC builds. Having spent £750 on a 1080ti I sincerely hope you have the ability to run games not only at 1080p/60hz. What an awful waste of all that power if not.
Also, you're far from running the 'latest version' of Windows 10. In fact you're two entire refreshes out of date. Both 1607 and 1703 supersede 1511. The anniversary update (1607) is almost a year old now.
Briefly, I'm running the following:
RoG Strix 1080ti OC Edition
Intel Core i7 7700k
16GB DDR4
RoG Z270 Motherboard
2 x 250GB Samsung 840 Pro SATA SSDs
I normally run everything at 1440p on ultra and generally sit anywhere between 100-144FPS. After reading your posts I noticed I was only running 1.25x Super Sampling so I decided to ramp that up to 2.0 and do a quick test (I should really be asleep...)
[video=youtube;zyj5d8dAcC0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyj5d8dAcC0[/video]
As you can see, coming out of supercruise and approaching the station I hover somewhere between 70-80 fps. I've tried to spin around like a fool to generate some stutter but I'm unable to see any. As I get in to the station the frame rate does drop quite significantly (which I suppose is to be expected - Lots more going on inside these stations than there is out in space!) however I spun a load more and still don't see any drops. Consider that this is running at 1440p and not 1080p, which means I'm pushing almost twice as many pixels as you in this test.
Now for the same test at 1080p.
[video=youtube;qPQ9wtE775I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPQ9wtE775I[/video]
Leaving supercruise and approaching the station I'm sitting pretty at ~110-120FPS apart from a brief lapse the moment I drop in. Absolutely no stutter at all as I spaz around like a lunatic. Same deal as before, frame rate drops in the station but still not a bit of stutter. Apologies for the weirdness of this video, it appears that scaling to 1080 on the 1440p screen has produced something a bit strange, but you get the point
If this were a blanket issue with the engine itself, would we not all be experiencing the same thing? Is it not just as likely that there are local issues at play here?
For full disclosure, I'm also running reshade/EDFX to spruce up the graphics even more, which I presume also has a negative impact on frame rates, and I've got tons of programs currently running in the background which I didn't bother to close down. I also have not yet tweaked any components of my PC outside of their factory settings, despite having plenty of headroom for it.
I appreciate that this isn't the most scientific test, however I've never experienced the problems you (and others describe) and I wanted to make that case.
Do you experience stutter on every occasion? Obviously this is one test at one station, I'm happy to perform more tomorrow and see how I get on. For now though, I need some sleep.
When writing new code, the first priority should be to get it working without any bugs. Only then should you optimize the code to be faster. Optimizing can be a long painful process, so have patience. I'm sure the planetary rendering will improve with time. FD has said they will be working on it in the near future.
Nope, that would be the (Cobra game) engine max'ing out the hardware for just simple things. It won't handle complex things.
That is not what CMDR Gaskie's videos show, is it.
Nor is it consistent with many other player's in-game experience.
I think it is fair to say that some players are having various issues with ED for largely unknown reasons, but it seems clear that the engine in itself is far from a broken mess and seems to be more than capable of delivering the kinds of things we have been discussing in terms of atmospheric planets.
I think your concept of 'many bugs' is wildly different from mine.
But again, you admit "I don't know"...so yeah.
I do not see why they would need to create a 'new' game when they can just upgrade the existing.
Ok.
You are running 1080p monitor resolution, DSR x 4, meaning 4K there (your in game settings/resolution is not 1080p, but 2160p?), THEN you are running super sampling at 2x, which increases your practical even further, THEN SMAA which upscales and then samples down to use for anti aliasing.
Assuming that's how you run it, since you do not say your actual in game setting of resolution just monitor resolution, there......is your problem.
You can say thank you.
You are putting an insane demand on your graphic card basically demanding it to run 8k gaming and then some (yes, not 'true' 8k due to a variety of things but near enough), with all the bells and whistles, no graphic card is build for that kind of load yet.
The fact that you CAN run it, says a heck of a lot in Frontier's favour actually, not against it. You've basically set everything to max, and are surprised it doesn't work.
Other games will work, sure, because many do not have supersampling as offered in game.
So yeah, that's why you are experiencing stuttering where others might not, case closed, turn down some of your settings, unless you are playing on a very big monitor it is doubtful you even get any visual benefits from these settings.
I find it interesting that you call people clueless and that you blame frontier when you do not realise what you are asking your computer to do, turn in game super sampling to 1x and rely on nvidia DSR only, and you'll a much better performance with near no visual difference, and if you claim there is a difference then 'ok' sure, but I have my doubts.
Yeah, I mean he's pretty much stated why he is having problems, 1080ti isn't made for near 8k gaming load.....so yeah...case closed.
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It would make sense to use domes, because most planets don't have breathable atmospheres.
It's possible to have a GTAV sized city like Los Santos, but not hundreds of thousands of unique looking hand-crafted cities. Because it's too much work. So I don't expect such highly interactive cities as GTAV, but hope they use procedural generation for metropolises. If cities have the same grid and buildings, that would be boring.
The only way Frontier could add large cities and each one looks unique (to some degree) is by using procedural generation. Such as having different pieces of a city grid and buildings mix and match to create different looking cities.
[video=youtube;MlR2geuzPXI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlR2geuzPXI[/video]
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LOL
I made like one post pointing out I have no issues with performance, take your weak rage somewhere else. READ MY POST, tell me where I'm being arrogant and self righteous. Hell my forum history is hardly glowing White Knight praise for ED!
For the record my machine is a Skylake i7 6700k OC to 4.7Ghz on a Z170 ROG MB, 16GB 3200Mhz Corsair Vengeance RAM and a Strix OC 1080 GTX on a HTC Vive with everything set to full. I think I have shadows and reflections down some because of VR with the correct SS and HMD settings for a crisp, sharp Vive picture. Without the Vive I can put shadows and reflections back up to max.
If you were actually interested in impartial information you'd have taking the info that not everyone is seeing problems on-board instead of whining about it. But you're not, you're here to forum rage and have people tell you you're right. What it sounds like is you're running out of game Dynamic Super Res and SMAA AND SS set too high. No wonder you're having trouble.
Also, if we go on your figures "hundreds of other players" is actually pretty much not many. I'm not even going to reply to your "you're a know it all teenager" comment because frankly it's beneath me.
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I am running and overclocked i5 2500k at 4.4ghz, an AMD Fury non x and 16gigs of ram. I run in ultra when using a monitor and it is as smooth as a hot knife through butter on 1080 and 60fps, without screensync it is well over a hundred FPS upto 180fps. No stutters or anything. I am also running the latest version of windows as well.
In VR I use VR high, with a little stutter on planets at rare occasions. Maybe it is your outdated windows version. But something is not right there.
Back to the original post, I see no reasons why the Cobra engine can't deal with atmospheres with life and cities. It will be different tech to the non-atmospheric planets anyway.
I think people say that the Cobra can't handle it know very little about how these things work.
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![[VR] Merkir](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/141/141091.jpg?1553527154){kind=avatar}
Not at all. It even occurs, to a lesser extent, when I'm at 300 FPS in windowed 1920x1200 mode. My normal mode is VR with SS=1.0 HMD=1.25 which generally gives me a smooth 90 FPS, but not when I drop in on stations. Ofc in VR the stuttering is like whack-me-in-the-head obvious. I've learnt to not use the joystick for those 10-20 secs, so I just gradually throttle towards the station on a straight course for a little while.
Actually, the stuttering is really obvious in your video. Not as bad as the example vid I posted, but neverless very clear.
From 2:40 it's a stuttering mess, especially from 2:46.
And from 0:46 while you're boosting towards the station it's particularly bad for about 10 seconds.
Actually, I'm not an armchair PC expert. I am a legitimate professional in this field, having run an IT consulting business of my own for 16 years now and before that I spend 10+ years working at Microsoft, where I supported games when I first started before moving to different positions in the company, eventually ending up as an Alliance Support Group Engineer responsible for being support of last resort for Fortune 100 companies, half a dozen of whom had my pager number. I had the authority to wake developers up in the middle of the night and task then with a 4 hour patch, if the situation warranted it. I was extremely well trained in all aspects of Microsoft products, from servers thorough DirectX and hardware because several of my assigned client corporations happened to be in the industry. The literal exact same things you're saying now were so common in cases vback then it's a little silly. "But this is the only game where it happens", for example. SO what? Maybe the other games you play don't use a single API call that this game happens to. That doesn't mean a darned thing about whether the game is optimized. Oh, sure, it might but if that were the case then the issue would be universal, as I stated earlier. Since it isn't, it's a bug somewhere in the game's interaction with drivers, or it could even be a single DirectX API call unique to your use case in Elite but that other games you play don't happen to use. Or, just as likely if not moreso, it could be a cluster of API calls that Elite uses which happens to be unique to Elite among your personal choices in games.
Frankly, when I worked supporting games, if we saw a case where someone claimed their system was flawless and only this one game caused the issue, we knew that there was a greater than 90% likelihood that we'd see it resolved it with new drivers. In very rare cases an updated BIOS or changed BIOS settings might resolve it, after manually tinkering with hardware resources to avoid conflicts with the NIC in use. The BIOS bits are less common these days, as modern systems do a better job of sharing resources and avoiding conflicts, but these things still happen. In a fair number of such cases, the problem ended up being caused by one wrong-headed "optimization" or another that the end user had applied. Often enough these were on the advice of random folks on message boards, and quite often they not only would only help in at most a tiny subset of situations, but quite often actively prevented the OS from managing resources as designed and thereby causing the very issue complained of.
Indeed. A fair amount of it is your own, too. I say this in all sincerity as constructive criticism. For example:
This is some of the most ridiculous words I have recently read. By virtually every single account, the newer build's "gaming mode" is actually quite good at making things work better for most folks. The build is in no way "unstable for gaming". It might be unstable with certain driver versions required by some games, but that's a game developer issue, not a Microsoft one.
Why? The game works flawlessly on several systems I have, all of which are "inferior" in one manner or another to yours, mostly in GPU terms. Despite that, my performance is consistent at all quality settings including Ultra with SUperSampling. I don't generally play at those settings since it's excessive for me personally, but when I do my GTX 960 handles it at a consistent FPS rate in all conditions.
Nice try to discredit those who disagree with you, but frankly you're the one spewing negativity and ridiculous accusations here. Several others offered what are reasonable possibilities, regardless of whether they specifically applied to you or not. Many of us have patiently tried to explain why we're disputing your assertion, since on our end the game runs perfectly well.
This is pure fantasy. That simply isn't how it works. The fact that the FPS is identical each time indicates a static issue, sure, but it in no way rules out you7r NIC, your ISP, your router, or any of a dozen other factors in networking. Your GPU (or some other critical bottleneck-ish component in the system) very well may be sharing hardware resources with the NCI causing exactly the behavior you're describing.
So, yeah, there are excellent reasons why people are disputing your assertion. Not the least of which is while you claim to have some level of expertise, you make truly wrong statements as I've pointed out above. At the very least, you are misled in your thinking on this by your limited experience. And that's fair. But to ignore the experiences of others who are explaining that things work fine for them and others they know, therefore demonstrating it is at least more complex than simply a a "poorly optimized engine" is simply silly. That, frankly, is what's whack-o here.
Edited to add: You may want to look up the definition of an apologist. You make i9t sounds as though it's somehow a bad thing when all it is is someone defending a thing. And, in fact, we're not really so much making apologies for Elite or FDev as we are pointing out that you're simply incorrect, sincere as you may be in your belief.
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Am i the only one who noticed GG7's statement that he is running DSR x 4 ... which puts his resolution at about 7680x4320 or 8k, and then does super sampling in game which then puts it up to something... x2 higher then scales back again. Either that or GG7... you are so obsessed with typing high numbers and specs that you either are not telling the whole truth, or you don't understand what the settings are doing.
Most games would struggle a bit when rendered (using two different pipelines) at 15360x8640 unless they are horribly basic... in fact most games don't include a super sampling option so its likely all the other games are being run at 8K while ED is being pushed way beyond that
Id also not expect you to admit that mistake, you do appear to be very 'matter of fact' about everything and generally dismissing anyone who doesn't share your oppinion... So which is it? Both DSRx4 AND Supersampling x2? or DSRx4, but not used in game (IE resolution in game is 1080p or what ever the native is for your display) in which case talking about the DSR setting is in fact... useless...
Can Cobra do cities etc... yes i expect so, the amount of optimizations that have occurred since 2.0 have been quite amazing, not only that but, graphics have improved as much as people want to claim they have always been reduced. Rings are a fine example of things being fixed up to look better. Also planet textures while taking on the beige plague, have improved in textures and fidelity since 2.0. Planet Coaster is a great example of how NPC crowd mechanics can easily be added to ED to make stations not lifeless. There is also on display the engines ability to render atmosphere as well as some features not yet implemented in ED in terms of textures and surfaces. Cobra being an in-house engine gives FDev the ability to do whatever they want with it. I mean 2.0, example, plannets stuttered around their orbits, now they are silky smooth in their movements.
beyond 2.4 the plan is for QOL improvements... optimizations are likely to come in there quite heavily.
Edit - my mistake, people already caught the DSR and supersampling
Most games would struggle a bit when rendered (using two different pipelines) at 15360x8640 unless they are horribly basic... in fact most games don't include a super sampling option so its likely all the other games are being run at 8K while ED is being pushed way beyond that
Id also not expect you to admit that mistake, you do appear to be very 'matter of fact' about everything and generally dismissing anyone who doesn't share your oppinion... So which is it? Both DSRx4 AND Supersampling x2? or DSRx4, but not used in game (IE resolution in game is 1080p or what ever the native is for your display) in which case talking about the DSR setting is in fact... useless...
Can Cobra do cities etc... yes i expect so, the amount of optimizations that have occurred since 2.0 have been quite amazing, not only that but, graphics have improved as much as people want to claim they have always been reduced. Rings are a fine example of things being fixed up to look better. Also planet textures while taking on the beige plague, have improved in textures and fidelity since 2.0. Planet Coaster is a great example of how NPC crowd mechanics can easily be added to ED to make stations not lifeless. There is also on display the engines ability to render atmosphere as well as some features not yet implemented in ED in terms of textures and surfaces. Cobra being an in-house engine gives FDev the ability to do whatever they want with it. I mean 2.0, example, plannets stuttered around their orbits, now they are silky smooth in their movements.
beyond 2.4 the plan is for QOL improvements... optimizations are likely to come in there quite heavily.
Edit - my mistake, people already caught the DSR and supersampling
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