Good job frontier! Engineer exploit fixed in 24 hours!

Sounds to me more like someone was flying around with a frag ship, combining rapid fire and screening shell (both legitimate mods that do not require an exploit) and "deleting" enemy ships. Rinzler has a video on their YouTube channel, search for "Derezzed." Frags + rapid fire + screening shell is truly horrifying.

I don't understand how something like this pass quality test.
 
I don't understand how something like this pass quality test.

I suspect some of the more extreme min-maxing and combinations of weapons and mods simply are not tested. You need a particular mindset to come up with them, and they're not really very mainstream.

The other fun one is spamming G1 long range mods on Rail guns, waiting for a 60% heat reduction, then putting four of them onto an FdL. The design team very likely never intended a quad rail FdL to be viable, or to be able to fire four rails and remain at 37% heat, but these builds are perfectly possible with zero cheating or exploits.

Similarly, he-who-cannot-be-nameth has a 10,000 MJ Cutter that takes two hours to recharge its shields *whilst docked*. Probably unintended, but a consequence of combining legit game mechanics.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
The other fun one is spamming G1 long range mods on Rail guns, waiting for a 60% heat reduction, then putting four of them onto an FdL. The design team very likely never intended a quad rail FdL to be viable, or to be able to fire four rails and remain at 37% heat, but these builds are perfectly possible with zero cheating or exploits.

Wow, I want to try that! Never really was interested in rails until now, and I have a half-engineered Viper sitting in dock just begging to be used for something. +1
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I suspect some of the more extreme min-maxing and combinations of weapons and mods simply are not tested. You need a particular mindset to come up with them, and they're not really very mainstream.

The other fun one is spamming G1 long range mods on Rail guns, waiting for a 60% heat reduction, then putting four of them onto an FdL. The design team very likely never intended a quad rail FdL to be viable, or to be able to fire four rails and remain at 37% heat, but these builds are perfectly possible with zero cheating or exploits.

Similarly, he-who-cannot-be-nameth has a 10,000 MJ Cutter that takes two hours to recharge its shields *whilst docked*. Probably unintended, but a consequence of combining legit game mechanics.

An exploit like this makes all the TOP END nearly impossible outcomes achievable through sheer spamming. There is also the case of Secondary Effects taking an upgrade above spec.

I have 3 FSD drives that are all close to +60% Optimized Mass. The range on the upgrade screen for a G5 FSD Range Upgrade only goes to +50%. I'm sure many of the weapons upgrades can be boosted beyond the typical max in much the same way.

If you have unlimited rolls available to you, math will tell you that eventually you will hit these higher ceilings on everything.

And to clarify for those who always require a literal explanation of everything someone else posts...

When I said NO RECHARGE TIME, I was referring to not only little to no Distributor Recharge times, but also no perceivable heat related delays in refiring of high heat producing weapons.

Rapid fire weapons that normally are never remotely close to being so.

Hope that helps for those who need these things spelled out for them.
 
Last edited:

before



after

look at heat and pwr consumption 10 heat and he should have 40 long range mod possibly g5 since trg 3.7km and 0 pip to wpn we are talking another level of ships , you are dead if they are good period...
 
The other fun one is spamming G1 long range mods on Rail guns, waiting for a 60% heat reduction, then putting four of them onto an FdL. The design team very likely never intended a quad rail FdL to be viable, or to be able to fire four rails and remain at 37% heat, but these builds are perfectly possible with zero cheating or exploits.
I'm going to ask a question that shows the limits of my RNG knowledge. How do you apply one roll to multiple weapons?
 
These issue will be fixed when FD tells us it's fixed. but,

To fix:

EVERYONE identified as having this cheat should lose have all their module mods stripped on all their ships on all accounts,

Lose all stored materials and data,

Their CR assets brought down to a sub-billion CR amount and

Shadow banned for a specified period of time.

Let them earn their way back to respectability by having to do the work legally.

After all, the death penalty is frowned upon and we all believe in rehab, right?

If the cheats don't like this, don't let the door hit you on your, let's say "head", on the way out.
 
Last edited:
If you have unlimited rolls available to you, math will tell you that eventually you will hit these higher ceilings on everything.

And to clarify for those who always require a literal explanation of everything someone else posts...

When I said NO RECHARGE TIME, I was referring to not only little to no Distributor Recharge times, but also no perceivable heat related delays in refiring of high heat producing weapons.

Rapid fire weapons that normally are never remotely close to being so.

Hope that helps for those who need these things spelled out for them.

But your 60% FSD you obtained legitimately, right? Range is important to you, so you put the effort in to find the mats and do the rolls. My 140% dirty drives I obtained legitimately, after only 7 rolls in fact (people probably hate me for this, but that's RNG).

The point *you* are missing is that these combinations and effects are in the game already, and people can obtain about 90% of the effect in maybe 10-20 dice rolls. An exploit allowing people to spam G5 upgrades for the elusive last 10% makes a very small difference over and above what was already obtainable legitimately. This is why it's very very silly for you to be yelling "cheater" every time someone in a powerful ship defeats you. Legitimately obtained ships will be easily 80-90% as powerful as a "god rolled" ship. Pilot skill and knowledge of game mechanics are also critical; those last few percentage points make no difference when an opponent's skill outmatches your own.
 
I'm going to ask a question that shows the limits of my RNG knowledge. How do you apply one roll to multiple weapons?

You can't, unfortunately. When I'm doing a lot of rolls (G1 long range requires sulphur, so you can stock up easily) I take an Anaconda to an engineer with like 8 weapons equipped, keep track of the rolls, and reroll the worst one each time until I run out of materials. You won't end up with identical weapons but they'll be similar.
 
  • Like (+1)
Reactions: EUS
But your 60% FSD you obtained legitimately, right? Range is important to you, so you put the effort in to find the mats and do the rolls. My 140% dirty drives I obtained legitimately, after only 7 rolls in fact (people probably hate me for this, but that's RNG).

The point *you* are missing is that these combinations and effects are in the game already, and people can obtain about 90% of the effect in maybe 10-20 dice rolls. An exploit allowing people to spam G5 upgrades for the elusive last 10% makes a very small difference over and above what was already obtainable legitimately. This is why it's very very silly for you to be yelling "cheater" every time someone in a powerful ship defeats you. Legitimately obtained ships will be easily 80-90% as powerful as a "god rolled" ship. Pilot skill and knowledge of game mechanics are also critical; those last few percentage points make no difference when an opponent's skill outmatches your own.

If the difference is so small, why did these guys invest the time to do hundreds of exploit rolls?

Anyway, they still cheated. If, as you imply, it was for an insignificant advantage, they're gonna feel pretty stupid when all there mods get wiped, and they're shadowbanned..
 
If the difference is so small, why did these guys invest the time to do hundreds of exploit rolls?

The whole marginal gains concept. If you improve each module by 1% then it can add up to a significant improvement overall.
Thrusters especially can give you a major advantage from a tiny on-paper improvement.
 

Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
The point *you* are missing is that these combinations and effects are in the game already, and people can obtain about 90% of the effect in maybe 10-20 dice rolls. An exploit allowing people to spam G5 upgrades for the elusive last 10% makes a very small difference over and above what was already obtainable legitimately. This is why it's very very silly for you to be yelling "cheater" every time someone in a powerful ship defeats you. Legitimately obtained ships will be easily 80-90% as powerful as a "god rolled" ship. Pilot skill and knowledge of game mechanics are also critical; those last few percentage points make no difference when an opponent's skill outmatches your own.
That's not really true. The "normal" max you can get with for example DD's is around 135-136% (most "regular" PvP'ers I talk to are in that range for most their drives). Anything above that is a very good and very lucky roll. A God Roll that some of these players are sporting are at 140-142% afaik (I haven't heard of anyone above 142%). The difference in the two thrusters (let's say 136 vs 141), is "only" about 4% (6*100/136=4,41%), but the roll itself is 60% better! (6*100/36). So it's a matter of perspective.
Also, a ship with "all" God Rolls, will most likely be more than 4% better in some aspects of it, because the ones who accept a 136 DD, will also accept an "ok" roll on other modules.

The sum of all modules being 4+% better in one ship, unfortunately adds up to a bigger difference in total, because it affects TOT for both parties, which mostly affects the outcome of a fight. If someone has 4% more damage, but can maintain higher TOT, less time being targeted, higher recharge of weapons and engines, etc etc, it adds up to a lot more than 10% more effective.

And then you add on the part about these players already being the best PvP'ers in the game (for the most part), because that is pretty much their only focus. The sum is pretty much "Ouch!" if you're on the receiving end.
 
The whole marginal gains concept. If you improve each module by 1% then it can add up to a significant improvement overall.
Thrusters especially can give you a major advantage from a tiny on-paper improvement.

It was a rhetorical question. I agree with you - god rolled mods would make a significant difference.
 
But your 60% FSD you obtained legitimately, right? Range is important to you, so you put the effort in to find the mats and do the rolls. My 140% dirty drives I obtained legitimately, after only 7 rolls in fact (people probably hate me for this, but that's RNG).

The point *you* are missing is that these combinations and effects are in the game already, and people can obtain about 90% of the effect in maybe 10-20 dice rolls. An exploit allowing people to spam G5 upgrades for the elusive last 10% makes a very small difference over and above what was already obtainable legitimately. This is why it's very very silly for you to be yelling "cheater" every time someone in a powerful ship defeats you. Legitimately obtained ships will be easily 80-90% as powerful as a "god rolled" ship. Pilot skill and knowledge of game mechanics are also critical; those last few percentage points make no difference when an opponent's skill outmatches your own.

Yes. Of course I obtained these legit through a lot of hard work and a lot of personal time.

We may have one or two over spec upgrades that we did earn legit... But based on what I have observed, the Cheat Ships have over spec everything. Everything that matters at least. THAT is not something a legit player is likely to achieve simply do to the rules of probability whenever an RNG is involved.

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

P.S. My encounter last night in Open Beta had nothing to do with piloting skill. The cheater was just parked in space shooting G5 fish in a barrel.

So all of those arm chair PvP experts in this thread who were not actually there, should just STHU. You have no idea what you are talking about, and you look like fools or apologists to those who were actually there and witnessed this obviously exploited ship and the cheater who was flying it.
 
Last edited:
The whole marginal gains concept. If you improve each module by 1% then it can add up to a significant improvement overall.
Thrusters especially can give you a major advantage from a tiny on-paper improvement.

that plus the secondaries which you dont even known about in the rail is -60% less heat so you can fire without overheating including plasma in your build
 
Back
Top Bottom