My visit to Frontier Developments and the Future of the Game
- Thread starter Obsidian Ant
- Start date
If you can actually get there, why don't you just ask someone at FD if they will give you a short tour?
Many companies do this. FD has done this for others.
But like any business, they of course have valid concerns and it takes time and money to host any visitor, so I am sure not all requests may be honored.
Au contrarie. I have and will continue to be critical(in a constructive way) of Frontier if they make a decision I think isn't the best way of doing it. The key is to present your critique in such a way as it's constructive, as detailed as you can make it and free of salt.
On the day I did have some criticism on the way progression is measured(to David Braben) and a long conversation with zac and sandro about exploiters. On both occasions my questions were not avoided, brushed over nor was I escorted off the premisesSo long as you are reasonable, articulate and can provide a good counter argument they will listen and as I could see on the day will adjust things accordingly
This I respect, and I thank you for responding constructively.
It's just unfortunate they can't engage with the wider community in the same way.
I had a feeling this was going to be misunderstood...
I have absolutely no desire to visit. Quite aside from the fact that my opinion is not widely respected by the community (and I would not expect it to be so), I am physically unable to visit the end of my road, so this would be impossible.
SO, no this isn't some veiled attempt of getting an invite. Let's move past that now, yes?
I just posted a video about this, but not everyone watches those - so I thought I would post here as well. Earlier this week I got invited to the Frontier offices along with a few others - it was a bit of a surprise, but Frontier wanted us to come along and record a couple of lines of dialogue for them to use in-game. Kinda like little cameo things.
So - the offices are really big, that was the first thing that hit me. The second thing was all the Elite Dangerous memorabilia everywhere, from ship models to cushions to wall hangings of posters (to big to fit in even the largest room of my house). There was also stuff from other Frontier games. Those guys certainly love the projects they work on, and are very proud of them!
It's often questioned how many people work on Elite, well there were two full open plan offices - and it appeared a huge amount of the staff were dedicated to working on Elite. Numbers for Elite were easily in the region of 100+. The content we got to see was very impressive, and I think people are going to like it a lot. Most of what we saw, people will probably get to see from Frontier at E3.
There's been some worry that 2.4 is going to be a small patch, I think that concern came from the announcement that 2.4 is going to be released in sections. From what I saw, it appeared that 2.4 is going to be at least as big as all the other patches, and it certainly isn't the end of the main development of the game.
Another thing that I know has been concerning people is Frontier's talk about working on the "core mechanics" of the game after 2.4. Some people feel this means the game is going into maintenance mode with Frontier simply working on bug fixes and minor changes. We got the chance to ask for clarification on this - and the "core mechanic" changes actually means that Frontier are going to flesh out existing game mechanics and give the developers the opportunity to bring these aspects of the game inline with the original concepts as well as to perhaps add further enhancements where they can. So it seems that this is going to be big deal stuff, rather than just small tweaks.
Another thing I've seen people wonder about, is whether or not there will be new features in the future updates. Good news is that there will still be new content added to the game along with new headline features. However Frontier are not willing to talk about what that stuff is just yet.
We still don't know what the new sales model for the game will be. Frontier aren't talking on that one - but it won't be a season pass.
Bottom line; there is a huge team working on the game. Frontier are committed to the game's future, and are not winding the project down in any way, shape or form. They are aware that the game isn't perfect, and there is a strong desire within the team to add new depth to the game, and improve upon existing mechanics. What this ultimately means for the gameplay I don't know, but whatever the case - things are not going to remain static, and improvements are coming.
So, yeah - it's not as bleak as people have been imagining that's for sure. A lot of good stuff on the way.
Here's the video for anyone that wants to watch it:
https://youtu.be/OU9-PmZkoDo
Just wanted to add, what a great bunch people people work at Frontier! Very passionate about the game, and extremely friendly! It was nice to meet everyone, Ed, Zac, Sandro, Jonny, David, Dav, Sally and so many others.
Well done!
Just two things: what airport do I need to book a flight to to quiz them in person, since that seems to be the only method of clear communication?
Second: the game is such a complex Hillary Clinton/Margaret Thatcher to work on, that *that* must be the reason they give such vague answers. To explain fully, we would have to sit through an weeks-long briefing on the code, and why things are the way they are. This game is a monster to maintain.
And I bet they go PG. PG is firmly rooted in DB's DNA. It is in the early Dev vids. It is the only way to achieve the scale desired. Maybe we should say "artist directed PG" as I believe that is how DB phrased it.
Hand-crafting 50 earth-likes? good luck with that.
Sorry then, what are you asking?
My advice was genuine, not a slam.
As it has been previously said, OA has been critic about the game in several occasions especially on the video a few weeks ago, and so have been the moderators and pretty much every member of the ED community, so if you think that they invited only people who sugar coat their game then you haven't read enough posts on this forum.
I hope they reveal much info on E3. I think the most important thing is to give players reason to cooperate. Kind of factions wars, guilds, factional PVP better than PowerPlay which is no tied to players but rather to system. I hope that they will focus on social and community aspect of game, even PVP.
All in all, fact or fiction, pretty smart move on FD's part. Not saying that this is fabricated info that was put on display. But, if, and they [FD] have said, basically what Ant had summarized about his visit, a large portion of us would be screaming, fake news!
However, invite a few highly respected and public users to come in, look around, and let them summarize what they saw and experienced. Then tell them to go forth into the wild and tell their tales of good things to come. Not only does it have far better results and a level of credibility but also, they [FD] can dodge the specific questions about details and time frames on upcoming releases that will come forth ... eventually ... maybe, or replaced by something equally awesome.
Brilliant move IMO. And, we get the honest opinion from a trusted user that it's going to be great. You're going to love it.
Remember Ant, you promised. Its your knee caps! jk.
However, invite a few highly respected and public users to come in, look around, and let them summarize what they saw and experienced. Then tell them to go forth into the wild and tell their tales of good things to come. Not only does it have far better results and a level of credibility but also, they [FD] can dodge the specific questions about details and time frames on upcoming releases that will come forth ... eventually ... maybe, or replaced by something equally awesome.
Brilliant move IMO. And, we get the honest opinion from a trusted user that it's going to be great. You're going to love it.
Remember Ant, you promised. Its your knee caps! jk.
I was just heading off any possible misunderstanding before the inevitable hate posts come flying in my direction
My point is simply this. OA is a well known community member, who is not universally loved and adored. (sorry Ant
) But he IS a YT personality, and as such, is almost classed as a celebrity. Therefore, visiting Frontier, and then reporting on what he saw could be classed as a celebrity endorsement.And I'm sorry, but I've never seen a moderator on here making any critical posts about the game.
I don't actually know the other people who visited - I believe one has a link to Echoes from the Hold.
My simple point is, invite people from the forums who have made a lot of posts recently, criticising the game in a useful, constructive manner, has engaged in discussion about such criticisms, and is clearly not trolling or just complaining because they'll never be pleased. Then allow them to talk about their day, much as Ant did.
I get the feeling that those who visited were actually doing so for another reason, (like VO's) and that's cool. And I'm definitely not saying they're all filthy liars, paid by Frontier to say only nice things - or we'll put you in a 3rd hand Sidewinder permanently - not in the slightest.
I think it just comes back to that transparency thing again. Perhaps my current mood is tainted by my current work situation, where a complete lack of communication from those I work for has resulted in my having almost no money and not knowing if I'll be working again next week... all in the space of 2 weeks.
Lack of communication and transparency just causes confusion and bad feeling. I don't need to know who why or even when things are going to happen. I would just like to know an idea of what's being worked on. Thats all.
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I totally understand where you are coming from.
You know, it's actually funny - in recent weeks, I've been called "fanboy", and "Frontier hater". I've been accused of ruining the game, and I've been accused of being biased and ignoring players concerns. Some people have told me that I make things unnecessarily difficult for Frontier, because I am too critical. Others have said that I only see the good side of Frontier and forget about the players. This is interesting, because as you point out - people see what they want to see. Some see the things they like, and are happy because they like them. Others see the things they don't like and pick up on that straight away. I'm not talking about Frontier or Elite here, I'm talking about my videos. Sometimes people see what isn't there. I can't be both a Fanboy and a Frontier Hater at the same time can I? Maybe these accusations come because I try to be as balanced as possible with my content, and a small section of viewers don't see this and instead only see what they expect to see.
But everyone is entitled to their opinion and I certainly don't think my opinions are the "right ones". What I do try however, is to make it clear when I am expressing my own opinions and when I am referring to other people's opinions.
There are a lot of things I do not like about Elite, and I have made a lot of forum posts and videos on those subjects. Powerplay and Engineers are just two of the things I dislike. RNG is probably the thing I dislike the most about Elite. I'm also not a fan of the way the game makes me waste so much damn time. I think the landable planets could do with a lot of improvement, and feel that in some respects they have been "ruined" compared to previous iterations. I'm not a fan of the shallow trading mechanics, or the way many of the games systems all work in isolation from each other rather than in cohesion. I could go on and on. But none of this is a secret, anyone who reads my forums posts or who watches my videos will know exactly how I feel. Frontier are no exception to that, they are very much aware of my thoughts and feelings on these things. But my feelings and opinions are just that. They are my own, and no more valid or meaningful than anyone else's.
I cannot say what Frontier are going to fix, and what they are not going to fix because I do not know. They didn't tell me. What they did tell me however is they do intend on fixing things. That they intend on fleshing out core mechanics and take the opportunity to bring them inline with their original vision as well as make further enhancements. What does that mean? Well I don't know. As I made clear at the end of my video, and at the end of my forum post my thoughts on that are "we will have to wait and see what this means for the gameplay". But also I will state again, that the general attitude and approach from Frontier left me with a very positive impression.
E3 is going to be highly anticipated by a lot of people, and rightly so - because people want to know what is coming next. But E3 will not have all the answers, it will not show us what is coming beyond 2.4, and it will probably only show us a part of what 2.4 is going to be.
For the rest, we are going to have to wait. And again, I have made my position on that very clear over the previous years - I have said again and again on these forums and on my videos that I feel Frontier need to get better at communicating. Yet for this I get the accusations that "Obsidian Ant puts too much pressure on Frontier" and "Obsidian Ant you are a fanboy, stop telling people they should wait and see". Again, as you pretty much said above, people see and hear what the want to see and hear.
Maybe that is why Frontier struggle with figuring out just what the "right amount" of communication is.
As for what I had to say - well it is entirely up to you how you feel about that. There's a lot I don't like about Elite (and I don't make a secret about that) - but as with most people here I am very passionate about the game, and there is a great deal I do love about it. That is what keeps me coming back, and I want Elite to be the best it can be.
Personally I feel Frontier have the right attitude towards the future of the game, I also know that Frontier are committed to future development. What that ultimately means for the game play though - I will yet again reiterate (as I did in the video and the original post), I really don't know. We will have to wait and see.
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Thanks a lot Ant, I always like watching your videos
I have not played the game for over a few months now but will have a play again as I do miss
the game and find it relaxing to play. We do need critics for any game if it is going to get better and need to be fair
and give constructive critism which you and others do.
Well looking forward to having a play on elite dangerous this weekend have a good one I may see you out in the black.
happy days
I have not played the game for over a few months now but will have a play again as I do miss
the game and find it relaxing to play. We do need critics for any game if it is going to get better and need to be fair
and give constructive critism which you and others do.
Well looking forward to having a play on elite dangerous this weekend have a good one I may see you out in the black.
happy days
How could you miss Slopey's fury during the ship transfer debate? And there are many other mods that issue criticism.
I think FD and OA have been clear that E3 will focus on 2.4.
At an unspecified event "soon after E3" will be where they talk more long range vision and probably maybe (please) the next super-major expansion like Horizons planet landings was.
Just did the math. 23½ hours actively trying to get an alien encounter. Any encounter. Tried mode switching, tried carrying an Unknown Artifact around. Tried the twin barnacle site. Looked for USS's in Maia. Flew all over the Aries Dark region in economic jump mode. Nothing. Met many bored and frustrated CMDRs along the way. It wasn't fun and I am annoyed. For anyone wondering how you get those negative Steam reviews with 200+ hours logged; this is exactly how it happens.
You know what I'd like to see in the next updates? More than better mechanics, more than crime and punishment, more than combat balance? A basic commitment to respecting the player's time. I would like to see a rigorous and ruthless culling of any and all play systems which rely on cooldown timers, random results for consistent input, real-time deadlines which tick down regardless of whether you're signed in or not, and generally anything which has the potential to waste the player's time.
The most exciting announcement Fdev could make, is a statement that all work going forward will be subject to the following question: does this feature/mechanic/cutscene/mission template/RNG mechanism treat the customer's time and attention with respect, as a precious resource? Or does it take the player's time and attention for granted? If it's answer number 2: rip it out of the game or fix it.
I'm not sure you've quite got what I'm getting at here, I'm not interested in what they went there to do that would undoubtedly be covered by NDA... (Well, I am, but not for the purpose of the question)
But more along the lines of, what's the connection between these guys and FD that they got invited in the first place? Are they just well known to FD (obviously some are like OA and TJ) from conventions or from YouTube, or are some of them professional VAs offering their services? Are they lucky prize winners? Things like that...
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Thanks for managing expectations.
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Nice one Ant!
Stansted a cab is around £100 iirc
Well i have been fanboy and whinger in equal dose. Its only 4 miles or so from work (duxford museum is walking distance from my office) and am available when ever to visit
Well done!
Just two things: what airport do I need to book a flight to to quiz them in person, since that seems to be the only method of clear communication?
.
Stansted a cab is around £100 iirc
Well i have been fanboy and whinger in equal dose. Its only 4 miles or so from work (duxford museum is walking distance from my office) and am available when ever to visit
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