Another yaw rant

[Jenner]

The flight model in ED is just fine, imho. Certainly compared to the yaw-based one in Star Citizen it's fantastic. (Although to be fair there's more going on in SC that causes it to be not as fun beyond the focus on yaw).

As others have said, maybe try it out a bit more and see if it grows on you. I hope that it does.

 

[Olrik]

ED designers don't seem to respect those who prefer pitch&yaw.

Just out of curiosity, have you backed SC?

You spent several weeks watching videos and you didn't notice the core fight mechanic was pitch/roll?

A pertinent , still unanswered question...

 

[Enride]

I mean no disrespect to the OP.

But please, read and read some more before complaining.
NO, its NOT worth starting a whole new thread on the subject because its a minority that actually refuses to accept this design choice, the majority either likes/enjoys it or at least deals with it.

They made it this way to enhance other aspects of the flightmodel, and theyve done so successfully. If no other argument is enough, then just accept it as the way things are in the "elite universe" just as you would "stuff" in other scifi settings.

They have a clear view of a sort of retro-stylish scifi future, and so far they are nailing it. Its not realistic, its not over simple (but not overly difficult either) but it IS their way and most of us actually finds it really fun.


And stop talking about getting you money back bla bla bla, you prepaid for a game and it wasnt as you expected it to be, that is entirely YOUR own fault and its not even worth mentioning here. You know what you get yourself into by prepaying, and if not then at least youve learned something.

 

[Half Giant]

I understand what you all mean, I think I'm just angry because I had to pay 60€ to find out this game is not for me.

Dogfighting is not my main focus, I was really willing to explore a gigantic procedurally generated universe, so having the same flight controls as everyone was not that important.

Well I'll try again with a cool head I guess.

Good man. I'd be interested to know how you get on. Exploration is going to be my thing too and it's looking great.

Ignore the odd person over reacting here, it's an internet thing.

Once you try docking you'll see we are all about the roll. Yaw wouldn't help a Lakon 9 fit.

 

[lysan]

I LOVE the Flight Model!!! compared to "other" space games. People claim realism, however there is non in any space game regarding flight models, because you know...we don't have space ships fighting in space yet.

Give it time, and if you can master it you will get a pad on the shoulder

We welcome you commander to the Elite Forces....

 

[Half Giant]

I mean no disrespect to the OP.

But please, read and read some more before complaining.
NO, its NOT worth starting a whole new thread on the subject because its a minority that actually refuses to accept this design choice, the majority either likes/enjoys it or at least deals with it.

They made it this way to enhance other aspects of the flightmodel, and theyve done so successfully. If no other argument is enough, then just accept it as the way things are in the "elite universe" just as you would "stuff" in other scifi settings.

They have a clear view of a sort of retro-stylish scifi future, and so far they are nailing it. Its not realistic, its not over simple (but not overly difficult either) but it IS their way and most of us actually finds it really fun.


And stop talking about getting you money back bla bla bla, you prepaid for a game and it wasnt as you expected it to be, that is entirely YOUR own fault and its not even worth mentioning here. You know what you get yourself into by prepaying, and if not then at least youve learned something.

My mum says ignore what anyone says before the word 'but'.

Threads don't cost anything. You don't have to reply. The OP didn't over state their case and has already said they will try again with an open mind. There really isn't any need to pick a fight here.

 

[Nicodemus]

I understand what you all mean, I think I'm just angry because I had to pay 60€ to find out this game is not for me.

Dogfighting is not my main focus, I was really willing to explore a gigantic procedurally generated universe, so having the same flight controls as everyone was not that important.

Well I'll try again with a cool head I guess.

And you still can. Not everyone is going to try and pew pew their way through the game, though I can imagine a few will try. The flight controls take a bit of getting used to, but practice makes perfect and will ultimately lead you to enjoying the game. Also, if you are just playing the single player missions then it can be a bit misleading, the multiplayer is much more engrossing. Treat the single player scenarios as a flight test to help understand the flight model and prepare to join in the multiplayer when/if you can.

 

[Lobstris]

May I ask how you reconcile this...

After several weeks watching jaw-dropping videos of ED gameplay, I finally decided to pre-order the beta.

with this...

If I knew that before I bought the game, I would have kept my money.

You watched for several weeks, knew the yaw issue had been discussed, but didn't know the problem existed? :S

Hope you come back to it anyway - if just for the exploration as the universe opens up.

 

[Expanding Man]

Romanito, I completely get you. I feel the same way. I recently got access and also feel extremely let down by this feature. It is such a cop out.

I understand that this is how it's going to be, fortunately I still think the gameplay is excellent once you get used to this annoyance. Give it a chance. Suffice it to say, I will be crushed if popular opinion causes Star Citizen to go the same direction with this.

Some things addressing arguments in favor of the bad yaw:
1) Sure, some may think it's more fun (can't imagine why, but to each his own, it's as fair an argument as any), but many don't. Believe me, as more and more people get the game, more and more people will complain about this.
2) For those who think it takes "no skill" if there were not such terrible law, I challege you to a game of Unreal Tournament. (And no, don't worry, Elite Dangerous would never become Unreal Tournament no matter what they did with the turn rates.) Saying it requires "no skill" is absurd, and just a way of getting people to shut up about it.
3) A LOT of people are going to be REALLY upset about this so it IS worth rehashing over and over. If you don't like it, ignore it.


I think to make everyone happy we should just make the turn rates depend on the ships. Some would have terrible yaw, some terrible pitch, some would be mediocre at both but good at neither. That seems to be a really happy middle ground AND add a lot to the game.

 

[Crystles]

Not gana lie. When I started ED, the lack of yaw felt very weird to me. It took a few hours before I even started adjusting to it, I'm used to more casual space sims that let you yaw freely. It took awhile but once I started getting used to it, I began to see the merits of it. Even before that, I had to admit that combat was far more cinematic and appealing than I was used to seeing.

Theres a depth to the flight in the game rarely seen. Its both simple, yet very complex on the same level. I've discovered that even marginal improvements in the players ability to pilot net some pretty huge returns in game. Something as simple as learning to dynamically control the transnational thrusters on the fly, and suddenly your able to maintain a firing aspect much longer. Learn to use the Flight Assist Off and you start being able to do maneuvers that can plop you right on the tail of another ship with you already facing them ready to go, or put yourself into a more strategic vector to help get away without wasting precious speed to achieve it. Get good enough to competently control transnational velocity while dynamically reacting to a combat environment and you can keep firing on an enemy who cant get you into his line of fire, while also using them as a shield against incoming hostiles.

None of its easy, but entirely doable at a level that doesnt require some adept mastery only reserved for the top 10%. Its a very deep system that feels rewarding when you explore it and start getting good. And the best thing is that its all setup in a way that as long as you keep trying, you always get better.

The game itself is pretty harsh, but once you learn that you actually have control over everything it becomes a very rewarding experience. You live and die by your success and failure, and theres always a drive to get better. Once you realize all the tools available and how much control you have, you'll begin to realize that even dying isnt a bad thing, its just a learning experience.

You already own the game. I'd suggest at least trying to enjoy it and see the merits it holds. They are great and well plenty.

 

[ZeeWolf]

I understand that this is how it's going to be, fortunately I still think the gameplay is excellent once you get used to this annoyance. Give it a chance. Suffice it to say, I will be crushed if popular opinion causes Star Citizen to go the same direction with this.

This is where people get a bit silly. Nobody ever said that this was the model all Space sims would follow. Loads of people start Elite, knowing a little about the fine Yaw rate and start ranting because they think Frontier are trying to push their space game model on the larger gaming world.

Nobody said any other game should use this model.

Frontier just want to make THEIR game.

In the old days, we'd pick up a game, mess around with the controls and generally wouldn't care about Yaw vs Pitch vs Anything. We'd just care about if it was fun, and lots of computer games weren't initially fun until you gained a deeper level of understanding of the mechanics involved.

Elite Dangerous has a fun flight model if you are willing to come at it without preconceptions. It's been done to achieve the kind of game-play the designers want. If you don't want to be open to that kind of game-play, fair enough but your really missing out IMHO

Nobody is saying that other games shouldn't do it a more conventional way.

Putting men in space rockets and having them fire lasers at each other is unrealistic anyway. If you're going to do that, why can't it be fun?

 

[Romanito]

You spent several weeks watching videos and you didn't notice the core fight mechanic was pitch/roll?

I thought pitch&roll was a popular choice, but I couldn't guess that it was forced by design.

Sorry for this rant, I think I made up my own idea about this game and I was wrong. I'm an SC backer, and SC is the game that appeals me most, but I didn't want to be another "SC rox / ED sux" guy, I wanted to give ED a try and I thought it would "fill the gap" for deep space exploration. I just learned the hard way that the game with the steepest learning curve (for a pitch&yaw adept) is the one I planned on investing the less time on. ED's development is more advanced than SC's and I thought it would help me wait. I was just being impatient. Maybe I should have waited for No Man's Sky for "easy" exploration

I know that pitch&yaw has a "noob" reputation, but I think it's just a matter of personal preference and I like it when games allow as much customization as possible.

Anyway, reading your answers showed me that ED has a great community, that makes me want to give it another chance

(I hope that I made myself clear, English is not my primary language)

 

[capt_carl]

(Redacted because of my bad mood)
Like others have said once you spend a bit of time with it, it becomes an enjoyable way to control the ship, give it some time.
I'll be enjoying the game I've learned to play over the last few weeks.

 

[Vandaahl]

Anyway, reading your answers showed me that ED has a great community, that makes me want to give it another chance

Cheers mate, and good luck!

Btw, if you want to explore, have a browse throught the galaxy map.

 

[Crystles]

Anyway, reading your answers showed me that ED has a great community, that makes me want to give it another chance

Thats one of ED's shining gems. I dont think I've ever met or been part of a better gaming community.

 

[gazzareth]

I know that pitch&yaw has a "noob" reputation, but I think it's just a matter of personal preference and I like it when games allow as much customization as possible.

Anyway, reading your answers showed me that ED has a great community, that makes me want to give it another chance

(I hope that I made myself clear, English is not my primary language)

The problem is that pitch/yaw as an option would probably be superior in combat over pitch/roll, the latter once you get used to it is much more fun (believe me I have a lot of hours playing both). There is enough yaw in the game for fine adjustment / docking coupled with the thrusters makes you pretty maneuverable.

Stick with it and it will grow on you. And btw your English is better than my <any other language>.

G

 

[WiseDuck]

OP is obviously trolling.

 

[Jenner]

OP is obviously trolling.

It could perhaps have been worded a little less inflammatory, but it was hardly the worst such question I've seen. OP had a concern - forum goers have tried to help.

And he/she just gave us props for being helpful. Let's cut OP a break, shall we?

 

[cmdr awesome]

I'm pleased to read through this thread and find so many supportive and helpful comments encouraging the OP to embrace the pitch and roll mechanic.

It really does make for a great game, and a configurable choice that is being alluded to (the option to chose yaw over roll) wouldn't be fair in combat situations.

I can understand yaw being much more familiar to FPS players, and as there is so little variety in games these days (try finding good coop strategy Xbox titles), many people who approach Elite are going to have this issue.

At the end of the day, the game isn't going to change. If you want to play it (and there are so many things about it that are jaw-dropping) then you'll have to learn to fly. As others have said, it takes a while but it is rewarding.

 

[Stodgy]

Take a good look at the models of the ships. Notice where the thrusters are located.

There are great big whopping engines on the back. There are smaller engines on the front. There are even smaller engines on the top and bottom.

There don't appear to be any on the sides.

Pitch and Roll and directional thrusting keeps combat interesting, and rolling to match target and then pitch to align, yaw to fine-tune works very well.

While I completely agree with you I've always found it a little 'odd' that you can thrust sideways as fast as you can thrust vertically. If the slow yaw was because of thruster placement this shouldn't be the case. Yaw and sideways movement should be using the same thrusters.

But that's a minor point and I like the flight model they way it is.