You always could carry weapons on your exploration ships, but as far as I'm concerned it never made sense and it still doesn't, Thargoids or no. It may be just my cautious nature, but why would anyone risk their collected exploration data in a fight - as I see it, you're always better off just running away.
OK, NOW you can start carrying weapons on your exploration ships
- Thread starter Major Klutz
- Start date
Well if they decide to attack me in the middle of nowhere..I have my trusted mining laser.. oh wait.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4JUxQe4P4g
On second thought, running might be a better option..
On second thought, running might be a better option..
Assuming we'd even be able to run away.
We'll see how this plays out. So far alien activity seems to have been localized around the Pleiades, and if that remains the case a vast majority of the galaxy would remain alien free and thus, explorers won't need weapons. We'll also see just how tough combatants they are, because making a viable combat build is about more than slapping on a few guns - you need a good distributor, thrusters, and you need to be able to prevent damage in the first place, as explorers don't get the benefit of nearby ports to stop for repairs at, so you're not talking a dinky D rated shield, but something big, engineered and followed up with a bunch of engineered boosters. In other words, goodbye jump range 
How DARE you assume my ship's build.
Just kidding. But yeah, some of us have been doing that for a while now, and also making sure that we might outrun the flowerships. However, now that we have confirmation that these are Thargoids, I think a likely scenario will be that we might need weapons against Thargons instead. Assuming that the alien ships haven't been scripted to be invulnerable in the recent encounters, the flowerships' shields laugh off our current weapons, so no matter what you'd take you with yourself now, it wouldn't help against them. However, we're likely to encounter their little combat drones, the Thargons, and we should be able to shoot those down. Which will likely require turrets instead of gimballed or fixed weapons. Bring some point defences too, just in case - they can be modded to weigh next to nothing anyway.
Well, for the people who fly cardboard ships min-maxed for jump range, any defensive addition will eat into that. But with current engineering, a good amount of ships can have good combat capabilities and a 35-40 ly jump range. Sure, that's not as extreme as the 50s and 60s that a cardboard Anaconda / DBX / AspX can do, but it's still perfectly fine to go anywhere. After all, before engineers, that was the range of Anacondas and Asps.In other words, goodbye jump range
Also, some food for thought: on a more combat-oriented loadout, a Cutter can match and sometimes even outpace a similarly-built Anaconda's jump range, while having better shields and forward speed, plus turret coverage. Worse turning though. The Anaconda's much steeper maximum range - mass graph is a bit double-edged: sure, at the close end it goes up much higher, but add on the mass and it'll drop quicker too.
But if you just want speed (to run away) and a decent jump range, I'd recommend Orcas, Clippers, Dolphins and Couriers. Oh, and let's not forget Cobras either. (Just the Mk III.) A speedier DBX can still do excellent jump range, but to be fair, it's not that speedy that it'd offset its rather large size and weak shields. Also, fun fact on the Orca: you can put HRPs on the restricted slots too, not just cargo racks and passenger cabins. Both the Orca and the Clipper can have 1,000-1,100 hull armour without losing out much on their jump ranges. If that armour combined with their speed won't be enough to survive a hostile interdiction, well...
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You were sounding reasonable and I was finding myself generally agreeing, then you said this:
and completely destroyed your credibility for all times, on any topic, on or off the forums, until the heat death of the universe occurs
(seriously, if you're using turrets on anything that's not intended for multicrew, regardless of the ship you're flying, you're doing it wrong).
Joking aside, I think you and I just have different definitions of what a viable combat build is - there's no way you can build anything that jumps 35-40ly that I would say is good for combat (and a good combat build is one that can not only survive NPC's but other players in my book). So when I start making something good for a fight, the mass goes up real quick. You can do something in the 35-40 ly range that's good against NPC's only, though, you can make almost anything work against NPC's.
and completely destroyed your credibility for all times, on any topic, on or off the forums, until the heat death of the universe occurs
(seriously, if you're using turrets on anything that's not intended for multicrew, regardless of the ship you're flying, you're doing it wrong).
Joking aside, I think you and I just have different definitions of what a viable combat build is - there's no way you can build anything that jumps 35-40ly that I would say is good for combat (and a good combat build is one that can not only survive NPC's but other players in my book). So when I start making something good for a fight, the mass goes up real quick. You can do something in the 35-40 ly range that's good against NPC's only, though, you can make almost anything work against NPC's.
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To quote HHGTG "Space is very, very big"
I think the chances of actually meeting a Thargoid while away from the bubble is (literally) astronomical. Unless that is, FD decide on some bizarre RNG tactic and well, they've never done that before.
I think the chances of actually meeting a Thargoid while away from the bubble is (literally) astronomical. Unless that is, FD decide on some bizarre RNG tactic and well, they've never done that before.
I'd be disappointed but not surprised if that turns out to be the case. I have plenty of other games that involving shooting, slashing or hacking and the appeal of Elite Dangerous to me is that combat is optional at the moment.
If I read the announcements correctly you will have to modify (possibly engineer?) your ships to have a chance against the Thargoids - new weapons, shields, etc. If Frontier takes the approach that engineering is the only way to stand a chance against the aliens where would that leave the non-Horizons players? Maybe the Thargoids will be only for Horizons owners so there will be a chance for players to opt-out of the pew-pew if they want.
I assume they'll use the same spawning algorithms that they use to determine the chances of NPC spawning in any given system, with a perhaps lower chance / more localized area for Thargoids. So in other words, every time you jump a dice is rolled on your Thargoid encounter chances.
OFC the more interesting thing would be to just have them give the Thargoid ships to a group like SDC. Now that would be quality entertainment
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
OFC the more interesting thing would be to just have them give the Thargoid ships to a group like SDC. Now that would be quality entertainment
Haha, that would be pure gold!
I think Thargoid encounters will be strongly localized, i.e. certain areas close to and in the bubble. Newbies will have the opportunity to fly safer elsewhere.
On top of it, I think the Thargoids could simply take over the bubble, those will be the new system authority ships. If you are playing along the rules, then fine. There were already reports of alien infiltration in the major powers, so I think this scenario is possible.
For what it's worth - there are no documented cases yet of aggressive behaviour of Thargoids (or other aliens).
Yes, there are documented cases of (mainly Fed) ship obliterated by Thargoids - but no evidence about who shot first. If EV Nova (sorry, didn't play the original Elite) is anything to go by, contacts with Thargoids can be non-violent. And if it will not be possible for humans to acquire Thargoid ships, why do they (apparently) have a human-compatible cockpit?
Yes, there are documented cases of (mainly Fed) ship obliterated by Thargoids - but no evidence about who shot first. If EV Nova (sorry, didn't play the original Elite) is anything to go by, contacts with Thargoids can be non-violent. And if it will not be possible for humans to acquire Thargoid ships, why do they (apparently) have a human-compatible cockpit?
Maybe they like to.. ahem.. do probing on humans, and thus their cabins need to be able to keep them alive?
Looks like you have a too narrow definition of combat builds then. You see, just like explorer builds, combat builds have subsets too. For exploration, you can go for higher jump range ("space" exploration), and you can go for planetary builds. (And fuel rescue, and hybrid, and so on.) If you specialize for jump range, your ship will at best be decent for planetary exploration. If you specialize for planetary exploration (cockpit visibility, forward speed) your ship will at best be decent for jump ranges.
As for combat, you can at the most broad level build for PvE or PvP. (Not going to go into more specialized subsets now, as they aren't relevant to the point, but I am aware of them.) Sure, you can take a PvE ship into combat against players, in the sense that you can take anything into combat, but a PvP build would be best. A PvP build will do okay in PvE combat, but won't be the best there either.
However, since we were talking about the Thargoids here, I have to admit that the thought of PvP there didn't even cross my mind. Bringing that in would just be moving the goalposts.
About turrets, they also have their niche: fighting off multiple small and fast targets. They are almost entirely worthless in PvP (although have you faced a wing of iEagles armed with medium beam turrets and missiles?), but as it so happens, it would be the exact niche for fending off Thargons. When I was comparing the Anaconda and the Cutter, I mentioned that the latter has better turret coverage.
Also, did you really mean to say that neither of those two ships are not intended for multicrew? I'm fairly certain you didn't.
Bit more about the Thargoids:
Back in the original Elite games, if you encountered Thargoids, they were hostile. It was only in FFE that they didn't shoot at you first. I'm a bit unclear about how much from that game is considered to be canon when it comes to the aliens though, but there was one other part from it relevant to what you wrote: when you had the option of getting a Thargoid ship of your own (completely OP, of course), then they said that they'll have to extensively modify an existing ship so that you could use it. I guess because the silly humans only have two arms and pump their air full of that horrid oxygen instead of nice proper ammonia.
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You don't need to explain the ABC's to me, I've been playing this game almost as long as it's been out. I also think you took me a little bit too seriously
I'm aware of different types of builds possible. Combat builds have their niche subsets, but it's a bit different there because the way I see it - what works in PvP will work in PvE just as well, while the reverse often isn't true. So there's basically builds that work and crap ones, and the latter usually do involve turrets. I make a Cutter work with a combination of fixed and gimbals just fine even though it's one of the least maneuverable ships in the game, and I kill targets way faster than I ever would with turrets (though I do prefer the Vette for that priceless feeling of landing dual C4 plasma shots on an Eagle, but I digress).
Turrets are just bad, in my opinion, and unless your intention is to have them for a gunner in multicrew, there's no other good reason to use them outside of niche builds (sometimes a small turreted weapon with a special effect, like a dispersal field cannon, can work well, but your main source of dps won't be turreted). You generally shouldn't need turrets to fight off small and fast targets even with a cutter - if you can't land shots on them using just gimbals, you're not flying your ship right. Just stating my personal preferences and what I've found works best after playing this game for as long as I have. Yes, PvE builds can differ from PvP ones, but tbh almost anything can work in PvE. I wish we had NPC's that are competent, but we all know how the community reacted last time they were dangerous (though truth be told they weren't dangerous because of good AI but because the AI basically cheated using rails and plasmas with crazy rof and having infinite distributors).
Now, you might disagree with some or all of the stuff above, they are, after all, my personal preferences. I guess I get triggered by turrets almost as much as I do when someone mentions docking computers. But, again, just me, don't take me too seriously and enjoy the game
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I am quite happy to be like 'Brave Sir Robin'...
Mal
Mal
I’m already on “sabbatical” from exploring. I’ve not logged into the game for over two weeks now, and until 3.0 comes around with those (hopefully) core improvements I doubt I’ll be playing much at all. With all the beige-ness and stagnant exploration mechanics it’s just become depressingly mundane to me. I think 500,000 lys of exploring the way we have had it since 1.0 has just caught up with me.
So yeah, if explorers are soon required to fly combat builds just to survive, well that would just be one more reason for me to stay logged off I’m afraid. I’m really hoping Frontier isn’t that unimaginative.
Thargoids have a tendency to turn off your ship, so weapons or no won't make a difference.
Besides, without the armor, you won't have a chance to even fire those weapons, so its all moot.
Besides, without the armor, you won't have a chance to even fire those weapons, so its all moot.
@ newman1702: In that case, one more thing about turrets and Thargons: the one advantage of turrets is that your AI can fire them at multiple targets. (As long as you don't have the turrets set to single target or forward only.) That's something that not even a human gunner can do, although that's because the role was designed for one gunner only. So again, attacking multiple small craft would be exactly the best thing against Thargons. Assuming we'll even encounter them, which only Braben knows.
Still, since our current weapons are entirely ineffective against the ships we have encountered, taking them with now to prepare for the future would likely be useless - unless FD have set the flowers to be invincible for these events only, and they'll hand-wave it away later. Which would be somewhat cheap, but still likely to happen. Well, most of these are just theories and speculation anyway. Then, like BDelacroix said, there is that whole matter of Thargoids simply disabling our ships. Explorers might need to return to the bubble to get some countermeasures against that anyway. ("Get your bug repellant today!")
But what we do know is that speed and defense (better shields, more hull armour) are very much likely to help. And thankfully, you can load up on both and still have a decent jump range.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at you or anything. It's not like I mind it if people poke fun at my expense, if their jokes really were funny. But hey, practice makes perfect, so keep at it! Although I do find it somewhat ironic that you're saying I'm taking you too seriously when you're also saying that you are "triggered" by somebody mentioning turrets or docking computers. Ah well, good thing there aren't any turreted docking computers in-game, eh? (Heh, imagine someone going all "FD dokcing computer turrets WHEN?????")
Still, since our current weapons are entirely ineffective against the ships we have encountered, taking them with now to prepare for the future would likely be useless - unless FD have set the flowers to be invincible for these events only, and they'll hand-wave it away later. Which would be somewhat cheap, but still likely to happen. Well, most of these are just theories and speculation anyway. Then, like BDelacroix said, there is that whole matter of Thargoids simply disabling our ships. Explorers might need to return to the bubble to get some countermeasures against that anyway. ("Get your bug repellant today!")
But what we do know is that speed and defense (better shields, more hull armour) are very much likely to help. And thankfully, you can load up on both and still have a decent jump range.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at you or anything. It's not like I mind it if people poke fun at my expense, if their jokes really were funny. But hey, practice makes perfect, so keep at it! Although I do find it somewhat ironic that you're saying I'm taking you too seriously when you're also saying that you are "triggered" by somebody mentioning turrets or docking computers. Ah well, good thing there aren't any turreted docking computers in-game, eh? (Heh, imagine someone going all "FD dokcing computer turrets WHEN?????")
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I've always carried weapons on my ExplorerConda, even for Distant Stars / Distant Worlds, as I was in the security detail for both expeditions. And yes, they have been used in anger on at least one occasion, but that was an NPC pirate trying to gatecrash the Distant Stars launch.
At the end of the day though, what use would normal weapons be against these, even if engineered? They can emit an EMP which completely disables your ship and so far seem immune to any of our weapons. Unless there are new Engineers mods or new weapons released as part of 2.4, we're probably gonna be dead in the water!
At the end of the day though, what use would normal weapons be against these, even if engineered? They can emit an EMP which completely disables your ship and so far seem immune to any of our weapons. Unless there are new Engineers mods or new weapons released as part of 2.4, we're probably gonna be dead in the water!