PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[krylite]

For one, I suck at pvp games in general. I can see the appeal with more of a structure for goal or team oriented pvp, yet ED has a history of being about a far bigger scope of game than a straight pvp game. I think we know Frontier initially made and advertised ED to try to appeal to all sorts, types and ages of players. I'm curious to see how the upcoming new PS4 playerbase will be like. If there are going to a be high percentage of griefers for example. Powerplay does seem to have an element of strategy pvp. Just recently the Torval power got undermined 25 star systems. That's a massive amount of player effort perhaps numbering in the hundreds, and the "Reapers" are still unknown except they may be sided with Hudson. Perhaps there could be a merit bonus for a pledged player offing an opposing power's pledger like 2000 merits.

 

[masCh]

PVP is the only true Crime & Punishment.

The problem is, griefers always always always drop to Solo when they've been hunted & found.

 

[Jmanis]

Exactly. I've always seen the Elite universe as a solo experience since 1984. So after the offline debacle, I satisfied myself with the idea of solo. But, if ED had been open only, I wouldn't have parted with my money and, presumably, neither would a fair number of KS'ers. Also, having experienced the laggy side of open, I decided to remain in solo because transition loading times are far better.

Pretty much. I mean... Elite/FE2/FFE were all "PvE" games if you like... KS said it would have online and offline... KS'ed it for offline... got online solo instead. Soooo... *shrug*?

 

[MarkAusten]

PVP is the only true Crime & Punishment.

The problem is, griefers always always always drop to Solo when they've been hunted & found.

Perhaps this is one of the motivators behind the proposed karma system since your karma will follow you in all modes. Of course, the security forces and stations would have to be beefed up so that even in a god-rolled ship they'd have the upper hand.

It's a nice thought.

 

[William J Smith]

I'm not put off by the threat of PvP in ED, I find the fear factor refreshing, because lets face it, an NPC pirate isnt a threat to a PvE engineered ship... boost and run in my case, a T9 is different, 4 pips to sys and sail on regardless

So jumping into Maia knowing that a certain band of trouble makers are going to be there just adds to the challenge.

But for you complaining about losing your ship to the PvP crowd, I suspect you're the same people that complained when the 2.1 AI was introduced and the NPCs became a lot harder to kill and a lot higher threat to your survival.

But then a lot of you are worried over something that in most of your ED time you wont see, since I play in open all the time and only about 10 encounters with other cmdrs have been the "no warning open fire" type encounter*


Bill

* and I've survived 5 of those by killing the idiot cmdr who takes on a battle python in a viper or cobra....

 

[CMDR MERANGO]

The current problem, for many players, of PvP in E is that there are far too many players who expect and demand that any encounter with another player must
result in combat - this is not what PvP needs to be.

Good luck changing that limited and shallow mindset.

CMIV

 

[James Razor]

I’ve been trying to understand why the vast majority of people are not interested in PvP in Elite Dangerous.
I’d like your thoughts on it, here are my thoughts.

For me, I like the adventure of discovering ‘what is out there’ now I know content is slim at the moment but the fact remains. I will NEVER get in a spaceship and explore the universe/galaxy in my lifetime as much as would love to. ED gives me the opportunity to do that, find weird systems and sometime amazing glitches that add to the experience.
I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players, the galaxy is too big to waste time with that in my opinion.
There are thousands of games out there where the purpose is to shoot each other and do it very well. ED gives me a Galaxy to explore, why on earth would I want to do peew pew when there is a Galaxy to discover? (I’ll repeat at this point that I am aware content is thin on the ground for exploring) But at least I can find cool places to re-visit when content is added.

TLDR?
Summary – Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

Thoughts?

Nutter
O7

I agree with your statement.
And let me add that i think PvP in this game outside of Conflict Zones serves little purpose as well. The attacker gains nothing, the attacked gains also nothing, but both can lose much. Even if u fly with insurance, a fully fledged out Corvette costs about 30 Million or more to replace. To get this amount of money u need to grind for about a day (if u have the means or use some of the money making schemes). It is just a colossal waste of time and effort.

In Elite there is nothing to capture, nothing to defend and nothing to claim. In Eve i was active with PvP when i lived in Nullsec-Space, as it was part of the way of live there. But i also had the benefit of gaining access to additonal resources and possibilities to make money there. Elite does not offer such incentive. And RNGneers have sucked the last bit of enthusiasmn out of me.
In the past i could at least get a FDL or any other ships and could be sure to engage an enemy on roughly equal footing. It was a contest of skill, not only in flying, but also in the ability to understand and use the ship and weapons and make the right choices.

Now it depends on who can afford to waste extreme amounts of time and nerves to maybee someday get a lucky roll on the RNG-Dice to get a advantage. And if u have bad luck like me sometimes, u can do dozens of those rolls and get only crap out of it. Also, FDev does nothing to help the situation with their attiotude towards certain things regarding RNG and grinding and PvP.

On the other side: anyone claiming that there are griefers in the game, blantly ignores the fact that there is a Solo Mode where no one can be bothered. So the moment u log onto open u accept the fact that someone can shoot u down as it is part of the game. And u can only blame yourself for it and your stubbornes to play in open instead of another mode.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I’ve been trying to understand why the vast majority of people are not interested in PvP in Elite Dangerous.
I’d like your thoughts on it, here are my thoughts.

For me, I like the adventure of discovering ‘what is out there’ now I know content is slim at the moment but the fact remains. I will NEVER get in a spaceship and explore the universe/galaxy in my lifetime as much as would love to. ED gives me the opportunity to do that, find weird systems and sometime amazing glitches that add to the experience.
I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players, the galaxy is too big to waste time with that in my opinion.
There are thousands of games out there where the purpose is to shoot each other and do it very well. ED gives me a Galaxy to explore, why on earth would I want to do peew pew when there is a Galaxy to discover? (I’ll repeat at this point that I am aware content is thin on the ground for exploring) But at least I can find cool places to re-visit when content is added.

TLDR?
Summary – Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

Thoughts?

Nutter
O7

Honestly? Because I'm old. I've been there and done that in other games and never found it satisfying to ruin somebody's day for my enjoyment.

With a goal such as war for territory it can make sense but Solo/PG means you can win those as set up in game without running the risk of seeing an enemy player so it's nerfed unless you choose to pick the appropriate mode to play in.

I accept that it's a game with PvP so don't have a problem with those wanting to play the part whether war or piracy as the challenge is very different as is the interaction with your foe, and while I can see the appeal it doesn't grab me enough.

I also tend to want to build something rather than destroy and the current limitations of the game don't add much to building through PvP.

And of course since 1984 Elite in all it's forms on multiple platforms has been a private game of an individual working against the galaxy which not only suites my personality, need for private time and wish to not join any group with others giving me orders or having to give those orders, but is a long term habit and association with the franchise that's hard to break.

I do play socially some times working with certain groups and running the risk of PvP which can be fun when it happens and I'm trying to escape, but generally I like the loneliness of a vast galaxy and freedom to do what I want when I want.

As a massive sandbox there should be room for everyone and the type of game they want to play though and modes allow for that which is good, although by no means perfect.

 

[verminstar]

I’ve been trying to understand why the vast majority of people are not interested in PvP in Elite Dangerous.
I’d like your thoughts on it, here are my thoughts.

For me, I like the adventure of discovering ‘what is out there’ now I know content is slim at the moment but the fact remains. I will NEVER get in a spaceship and explore the universe/galaxy in my lifetime as much as would love to. ED gives me the opportunity to do that, find weird systems and sometime amazing glitches that add to the experience.
I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players, the galaxy is too big to waste time with that in my opinion.
There are thousands of games out there where the purpose is to shoot each other and do it very well. ED gives me a Galaxy to explore, why on earth would I want to do peew pew when there is a Galaxy to discover? (I’ll repeat at this point that I am aware content is thin on the ground for exploring) But at least I can find cool places to re-visit when content is added.

TLDR?
Summary – Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

Thoughts?

Nutter
O7

No repurcussions, no consequences, thin roleplay excuses, cant afford it...take yer pick, they all apply.

I avoid pvp because theres no reason to embrace it and no repurcussions or consequences mean its boring and pointless. If I commit a murder simply because I could out of sheer something to doness, I want everything and everyone to come after me...anything less is just unbelievable and immersion breaking.

Ergo I cant make any sorta connection to this universe...open play is just pure mad max free fer all type play to me, so I avoid it almost entirely. I want a universe thats believable...currently its just an asylum overrun by the patients who think this is normal.

Money wise, I just cant afford more than 2 or 3 hits and from experience, I can suffer that in a single open play 2 hour session...thats actual personal experience not listening to bitter forum threads.

Give me a believable universe with real consequences and Ill play in open again and possibly even try and learn the art a bit...but with the mad max style gameplay, Ill just avoid it entirely and make no apology fer it ^

 

[smartroad]

For me PvP isn't what I am into. I do not have the time (or skill) to be good enough to be successful with PvP - heck I am barely good enough to beat an NPC!

Also what is the point? Aside from just going around "murdering" other players, how many have a bounty worth collecting compared to a decent NPC? Pirate I can only understand if you have gone along with a wing of a couple of fighters and someone with a cargo capable ship waiting for the cargo to be dropped. Otherwise why bother just to get a few canisters of gold (or whatever). I can earn more money by playing PvE then I ever could playing against other players.

I get why CQC exists. I have played a couple of times but not being part of the main game makes it less likely to be used/played.

 

[Schmack]

I'm not put off by the threat of PvP in ED, I find the fear factor refreshing, because lets face it, an NPC pirate isnt a threat to a PvE engineered ship... boost and run in my case, a T9 is different, 4 pips to sys and sail on regardless

So jumping into Maia knowing that a certain band of trouble makers are going to be there just adds to the challenge.

But for you complaining about losing your ship to the PvP crowd, I suspect you're the same people that complained when the 2.1 AI was introduced and the NPCs became a lot harder to kill and a lot higher threat to your survival.

But then a lot of you are worried over something that in most of your ED time you wont see, since I play in open all the time and only about 10 encounters with other cmdrs have been the "no warning open fire" type encounter*


Bill

* and I've survived 5 of those by killing the idiot cmdr who takes on a battle python in a viper or cobra....

So your anecdotal evidence proves that what those "people" worry about is unfounded?

You'll never need a spare tire. I have one and haven't used it, and am on my 4th vehicle, 20 years, without having a flat tire. Ergo no need for a spare. Unfounded worry.

It's always interesting to read the comments from the PvP crowd, hoping to ease fears to lure in those they've run off with their anti-gaming antics. (not you personally, but since you categorized so will I).

 

[m0rl0ck]

[h=2]Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?[/h]

The Engineers.

 

[NW3]

Not to mention the massive power discrepancy between a combat-focussed ship and a general-purpose ship. If a player has put the effort into building a highly PvP-combat-focussed ship, then any player who comes up against them in a not-so-focussed vessel probably won't last long and probably won't have any enjoyment from the encounter.

This was the case before engineering, and engineer modifications hugely increase the difference.

^ exactly. Rep++

PvP at a trading CG is hugely unbalanced. OP PvP ships vs traders is like shooting fish in a barrel. It's not possible to do well at a trading CG, if your trading vessel is filled with shields, shield boosters, hull and module reinforcements, etc., instead of cargo. Plus I don't know of any player flying over-engineered combat Type-9s. The pain is all one-sided, so most play CGs in solo.

 

[Han_Zen]

^ exactly. Rep++

PvP at a trading CG is hugely unbalanced. OP PvP ships vs traders is like shooting fish in a barrel. It's not possible to do well at a trading CG, if your trading vessel is filled with shields, shield boosters, hull and module reinforcements, etc., instead of cargo. Plus I don't know of any player flying over-engineered combat Type-9s. The pain is all one-sided, so most play CGs in solo.

The hope of PvP as a natural part of the game was lost the day someone decided that the new SCBs should be a stackable module.

If they had decided back then to put 30 cells in a A-class bank but only allowed one bank per ship, the game could have been quite different today.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I’ve been trying to understand why the vast majority of people are not interested in PvP in Elite Dangerous.
I’d like your thoughts on it, here are my thoughts.

For me, I like the adventure of discovering ‘what is out there’ now I know content is slim at the moment but the fact remains. I will NEVER get in a spaceship and explore the universe/galaxy in my lifetime as much as would love to. ED gives me the opportunity to do that, find weird systems and sometime amazing glitches that add to the experience.
I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players, the galaxy is too big to waste time with that in my opinion.
There are thousands of games out there where the purpose is to shoot each other and do it very well. ED gives me a Galaxy to explore, why on earth would I want to do peew pew when there is a Galaxy to discover? (I’ll repeat at this point that I am aware content is thin on the ground for exploring) But at least I can find cool places to re-visit when content is added.

TLDR?
Summary – Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

Thoughts?

Nutter
O7

Is pvp not popular in elite or is this one of these threads that is high on hyperbole and low on facts?

 

[Schmack]

Is pvp not popular in elite or is this one of these threads that is high on hyperbole and low on facts?

Facts are anecdotes that lead to hyperbole. Fact is a lot of people used a software exploit to game the RNG system. Anecdotes are that people who didn't do that have experiences where they were at a disadvantage to those who did. Hyperbole is that it's the end of the Open world as we know it.

Truth is probably more like FD will do something eventually and there will be threads professing rage quitting because of it, and the astonishing number of "just got lucky on a few rolls so why am I being punished for being gud" people that fall out of the woodwork will be amazing.

 

[JonSnowman]

As that other thread says...barrier to entry is too high.

I've done plenty of engineering but I'm not prepared to keep going just so I can compete on a even playing field.

Don't get enough play time to waste it grinding for an equal ship.

 

[BL1P]

Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

Exploits/Cheats and lack of any proof that Fdev do anything about it.
Very lenient and basic crime and punishment system.
RNG Engineers.
No Ironman mode with a separate login.

 

[MarkAusten]

^ exactly. Rep++

PvP at a trading CG is hugely unbalanced. OP PvP ships vs traders is like shooting fish in a barrel. It's not possible to do well at a trading CG, if your trading vessel is filled with shields, shield boosters, hull and module reinforcements, etc., instead of cargo. Plus I don't know of any player flying over-engineered combat Type-9s. The pain is all one-sided, so most play CGs in solo.

I believe Rinzler070707 does this. He recently posted a video clip of the same (https://youtu.be/ZQAzUC87uh8)

 

[Siranui]

Sometime back there have been some polls on this forum that put the percentage of players interested in PVP at about 25% to 30%. I'm not sure what it would be today. The majority of players is PVE oriented, I just wouldn't necessarily call it a 'vast' majority.

That's a figure based on the number of people who bothered voting on a forum poll, and not strictly a valid representation. I'd argue that it would artificially boost the percentage of 'social' players. FD have said the 'vast majority' of players are not interested in PvP, whatever that means. I'd expect 80/20 or even higher.