PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[[VR] Mad Mike]

[/LIST]

It was like that in the beginning. And it went like this: you and I are pals. I go and make XYZ million bounty on my head, then I let you kill me and cash in. Then we switch places...

so a few thoughts on this.

1) This happened, no argument however The economy was very different back then, money was actually something we needed to earn and a million was a significant sum of cash (it took me 25hrs to A rate my sidewinder and save up for eagle for instance ........ However nowadays with it being possible to exploit for 100 million per hr if you want, is players choosing to exploit in the manner above now a concern? Are we punishing 90% of legit players for the sake of the 10% of exploiters, who will find another way to glitch their cash anyway???

2) I think FD went the wrong way fixing the PvP bounty issue...... imo the bounty should come out of the players coffers before any insurance is paid............. hypothetically if i have a fine of £10,000 for causing damage by wreckless driving.. i do not get out of said fine by writing the car off......

that would then mean that the "exploit" would then just become a way of transferring cash from 1 player to another rather than generating cash. . still an exploit for gold farmers??? maybe but its possible anyway by dumping imperial slaves.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

My issue with PvP is that as things stand it seems/feels to me like such a mindless event from the PoV of both the victor and victim, and there is so little consequence as a result.

I have enough credit reserves now that ship destruction simply represents a time sink, I have killed and been killed in Open and it leaves a very hollow experience.

 

[CMDR MERANGO]

There are way too many posts/comments about 'Open' being a combat mode of game play, not so. There are far too many players who wrongly assume that 'Open' is a PvP combat mode, again not so.

IMHO, the crux of the problem is, that players have a wrong mindset of the 'Open' play mode with the extension that playing in 'Open' must result in a combat outcome when they encounter another player. Really?????

There is NOTHING wrong with the ED game play modes. The problem is the culture and mindset of players in said play modes!

Change your thought processes and not the game.

CMIV

 

[Conch]

engineers + premium ammo

 

[MarkAusten]

That's a figure based on the number of people who bothered voting on a forum poll, and not strictly a valid representation. I'd argue that it would artificially boost the percentage of 'social' players. FD have said the 'vast majority' of players are not interested in PvP, whatever that means. I'd expect 80/20 or even higher.

Almost correct, a developer at FD stated that the majority of players do not PvP, he didn't qualify it at all, unfortunately.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Almost correct, a developer at FD stated that the majority of players do not PvP, he didn't qualify it at all, unfortunately.

.... although he did say that Frontier are "well aware" - from which it might be inferred that it's something a bit more significant than a 52%/48% majority.

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

.... although he did say that Frontier are "well aware" - from which it might be inferred that it's something a bit more significant than a 52%/48% majority.

I think it depends on how you define a PvP player. I've done PvP several times, but I'm not really a PvP player. I don't spend sessions either organizing structured PvP with a group or interdicting people at CGs. I would consider those types to be PvPers.

If you include me in that list, then it's likely to be a fairly high percentage. I don't they include people like me in that, though.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think it depends on how you define a PvP player. I've done PvP several times, but I'm not really a PvP player. I don't spend sessions either organizing structured PvP with a group or interdicting people at CGs. I would consider those types to be PvPers.

If you include me in that list, then it's likely to be a fairly high percentage. I don't they include people like me in that, though.

Indeed - it would depend on the interpretation of "don't get involved in PvP" - there was no qualifier such as "often" or "regularly" though.

 

[Altsak]

ED PvP = grind to win
Some other games = skill to win

If I want to PvP I play other games.

 

[verminstar]

ED PvP = grind to win
Some other games = skill to win

If I want to PvP I play other games.

This guy gets it...sums up my own feelings perfectly. I play other pvp games that rely on individual skill of the player...here I stay in solo to avoid their version of pvp because its down to luck and grind here ^

 

[Dutchman141]

I make my own story in ED, sometimes that involves combat in pve but most of the time it's either exploring or running bulletin board missions.
Especially passenger missions are fun, transport and the occasional sightseeing.
I play predominantly in solo or in a pg purely because I want to make my story and not have it made by others what mostly results in me getting killed.
I'm not that good in combat but do own a couple pure combat ships, Conda, Corvette, FDL, Gunship, all ships are heavily engineered and give me a certain leeway in pve, in pvp I wouldn't stand a chance.
It's not that I don't like interaction with other players but that interaction results in combat eighty percent of the time, that just isn't my playstyle.

o7

 

[Siranui]

Almost correct, a developer at FD stated that the majority of players do not PvP, he didn't qualify it at all, unfortunately.

I'm pretty certain some manner of adjective was used. It was also stated that the PvP community as more vocal.

 

[BlackSpaceCowboy]

Re-buy costs. It's something that really hurts the game in so many ways. It's why people got so angry when the AI was good. It's why people get so angry about griefers. It's why people are afraid of playing in Open.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Re-buy costs. It's something that really hurts the game in so many ways. It's why people got so angry when the AI was good. It's why people get so angry about griefers. It's why people are afraid of playing in Open.

Don't forget losses that aren't covered by the rebuy - they can exceed the rebuy cost....

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Re-buy costs. It's something that really hurts the game in so many ways. It's why people got so angry when the AI was good. It's why people get so angry about griefers. It's why people are afraid of playing in Open.

i agree it is why SOME dont play in open.

but the only reason i play ED at all is so i can RP life of Space man flying space ships in the future.... and that means making the economy as plausible on the surface as possible (within the constraints of the sci fi rules set up).

What this means is, there NEEDS to be rebuy costs because billion credit ships being blown up with no repercussions does not fit in the above vision of Elite.... Does said repercussions keep me more in a mode away from those whos mission is to blow up all hollow squares...... well it does not help, but from my view I would rather play Elite in solo or PG, than play "shallow arena shooter game" in open, which imo is what ED would become IF rebuy costs were removed.

 

[Zambrick]

I’ve been trying to understand why the vast majority of people are not interested in PvP in Elite Dangerous.
I’d like your thoughts on it, here are my thoughts.

For me, I like the adventure of discovering ‘what is out there’ now I know content is slim at the moment but the fact remains. I will NEVER get in a spaceship and explore the universe/galaxy in my lifetime as much as would love to. ED gives me the opportunity to do that, find weird systems and sometime amazing glitches that add to the experience.
I’ve never seen Elite as an opportunity to sit in my backyard and shoot other players, the galaxy is too big to waste time with that in my opinion.
There are thousands of games out there where the purpose is to shoot each other and do it very well. ED gives me a Galaxy to explore, why on earth would I want to do peew pew when there is a Galaxy to discover? (I’ll repeat at this point that I am aware content is thin on the ground for exploring) But at least I can find cool places to re-visit when content is added.

TLDR?
Summary – Most players purchased ED to wonder at our galaxy in their own time in their own way. For them PvP is just a waste of time and effort.

Thoughts?

Nutter
O7

The entire game premise is not designed with player combat in mind. They only way a real PVP combat experience can happen is if both ships are outfitted in the exact same defensive measures and comparable offensive measures. Since you are not required to be flying a combat ship at all times, then the premise of Open PVP environment with no over site can never be possible.

Player combat interactions must either be controlled via in game rule sets or ship power levels must be in parity regardless of the ship type. That being said, the ship parity thing can never and will never happen in ED. So until there is a very clear definite rule/karma/C&P system in place, then PVP combat does not exist in Elite Dangerous Open play. It has not existed in Open since launch and only has been brought to the forefront because of the Engineers ruining the entire combat experience.

CQC is the only place in the entire game where a semblance of combat based PVP can occur. The rest is just ganking or a very time intensive version of rock, paper, scissors.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Chris Rock Solution. Make bullets cost a million credits each and remove lasers from the game. Then when someone gets wasted you know it was for a good reason.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I think it depends on how you define a PvP player. I've done PvP several times, but I'm not really a PvP player. I don't spend sessions either organizing structured PvP with a group or interdicting people at CGs. I would consider those types to be PvPers.

If you include me in that list, then it's likely to be a fairly high percentage. I don't they include people like me in that, though.

True. I don't consider myself a PvPer either. I'm a role player by a large margin. Yet I think that PvP should have a role to play in my game, and I primarily play in open.

 

[Siranui]

Re-buy costs. It's something that really hurts the game in so many ways. It's why people got so angry when the AI was good. It's why people get so angry about griefers. It's why people are afraid of playing in Open.

All of those things are simply because *some* people do not like any form loss or setback.

Unfortunately, that's not how life is, or pleasure truly derived. I hope that particular minority continue to be ignored in their desire to start a race-for-the-bottom as regards risk/loss in the game.

It's also a very silly solution, that does not favour the defensive pilot. I hate to break this, but the moment insurance is lost, the cost of getting vaped relatively *increases* for the non-adversarial player. In an encounter with a PvP player and a trader/explorer, with no rebuy, if you think for the moment, which party loses nothing, and which party still loses something? You've just made the problem worse by making it even more asymmetrical in terms of loss.
So what then? Aww, shucks we should give traders their cargo back if they die, and then explorers their data, and then magic people back to five minutes before they died, so that nobody gets upset that they last docked 500LY away, then five minutes is also too much to lose, so make it two... and honestly, at that point people will still complain, even though there will be no tangible 'loss' mechanic in the game .

 

[Siranui]

The entire game premise is not designed with player combat in mind. They only way a real PVP combat experience can happen is if both ships are outfitted in the exact same defensive measures and comparable offensive measures. Since you are not required to be flying a combat ship at all times, then the premise of Open PVP environment with no over site can never be possible.

Player combat interactions must either be controlled via in game rule sets or ship power levels must be in parity regardless of the ship type. That being said, the ship parity thing can never and will never happen in ED. So until there is a very clear definite rule/karma/C&P system in place, then PVP combat does not exist in Elite Dangerous Open play. It has not existed in Open since launch and only has been brought to the forefront because of the Engineers ruining the entire combat experience.

CQC is the only place in the entire game where a semblance of combat based PVP can occur. The rest is just ganking or a very time intensive version of rock, paper, scissors.

Um, what It's not symmetrical so it's not valid PvP?

The idea that combat is inherently and obviously asymmetric and so the game is not 'real' PvP is not one I agree with at all. Even chess is asymmetric to a small degree: White has the initiative at the start of every game. One side always has an advantage. Is a 100m sprint final not a proper competition unless identically equipped clones participate?